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And the price for the most useless prophecy goes to...


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85 replies to this topic

#1 snowboard_season_is_coming

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 02:34 PM

"Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun’s son and the mummer’s dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal."

 

This prophecy seems useless to me even if it weren´t encrypted.

 

 

Don´t trust the Sun´s son? Don´t trust Quentyn Martell? Really?

This guy may not be pretty enough for her, but he seems completely sincere to me, and his father, whom he represents, is trustworthy too.

 

 

Don´t trust Tyrion?

Why? Tyrion shares her goals and is (for Westerosi standards) pretty trustworthy.

 

And beware that boat that sinks before it ever reaches your shore.

 

 

Should´t the prophecy warn her of Brown Ben´s treason, tell her whether Hisdar is trustworthy, who the Harpy is, and the identity of her poisoner?

 

Other parts may still prove to be useful, and I may have misread some, but so far this prophecy seems pretty lame and beside the point to me.

 

Thoughts?

 



#2 James Arryn

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 02:38 PM

The mummer's dragon one always devolves into an argument about punctuation, which makes my life that much more worth living.

#3 Apple Martini

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 02:38 PM

That's actually why so many people don't think Quaithe is actually trying to help Dany.



#4 Silent_Hero

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 02:46 PM

The Martells have their own agenda of Revenge, and Quentyn did try to steal her dragon...

Tyrion is looking out for Tyrion, he's the least trustworthy out of all them.

#5 northernmonkey

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 04:12 PM

I think she's told not to trust these people because although they might want to help her, it's entirely for selfish reasons. Quentyn might be a nice guy, but he still wants to marry her for power, just like Victarion and Euron do. We all like Tyrion, but he's only going to help Dany for personal gain and to get revenge on Cersei.

 

I think it's interesting that Quaithe doesn't mention Marywn, who is also on his way to Meereen, because he is the only one who is trying to protect her, not use her for personal gain.



#6 Nite's King

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 05:29 PM

To go north you must go south. To go west you must go east. To go forward you must go backward. Blah blah Dany ain't going to Asshai so thanks for nothing.

#7 Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 05:38 PM

I think its not really a prophecy she said "remember the undying" they wanted Dany because of her "dragons"

All of these people were coming to Dany because of her "dragons"

 

I don't think it means they are "evil" it just means that all these people were coming to her because of her dragons not because of her, that's why Quaithe said she shouldn't trust them.

 

Quaithe saw them by using glass candles, which can be uses to scan across lands far and wide.

She didn't add Marwyn because marwyn is not coming to Dany because of her "dragons" he is the only one actually coming for "Dany"

If Dany didn't have dragons the others wouldn't come. Marwyn would still come since he came under a messsage from Aemon from Sam and he didn't even put stock into the prophecy, or the alternative could be Marwyn has a way of blocking Quaithe since he uses glass candles as well. 



#8 Jon of the Dead

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 06:03 PM

Quaithe has been making my spider sense tingle since Dany was questioning her own sanity and wondering if she would be going crazy. (I think this was when Quaithe appeared to her in the dark)

 

That seems the kind of game Varys played on Aerys to bring his paranoia to the max level, and look how that ended. I wonder what kind of agenda Quaithe has.


Edited by Jon of the Dead, 20 October 2013 - 06:07 PM.


#9 Luthien Targaryen

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 06:05 PM

I think Quaithe is useless too. Most of her stuff boils down to "Dany, trust no one!". Which doesn't seem to get her very far, you've got to trust somebody at some point (unless you're maybe Littlefinger or Varys). Seriously, she makes some of the stuff Patchface comes out with look informative, and at least he's funny. I'm not sure anybody's prophesy skills are actually very reliable, but Quaithe seems to be the most pointless. In order of  usefulness?

 

  1. Ghost of High Heart (she's like the Westeros evening news!)
  2. Jojen Reed and Bran Stark (accurate, if sometimes only apparent after the event)
  3. Melisandre (there was a girl on a horse, it just wasn't the girl they were expecting.)
  4. Patchface
  5. Quaithe


#10 Knight Of Winter

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 06:19 PM

Basically, I agree with OP. Quiathe explicitly warns Dany not to trust people who are either honest and straightforward about their intentions (Quentyn), her potential allies (JonCon and Aegon) and guy whose mission is to help her (Moqorro).

 

On the other hand, Quiathe says nothing about trustworthiness of Brown Ben (who betrays her), Green Grace (who is probably the Harpy), Hizdahr (whose loyalties are uncertain), Shavepate (who is most likely culprit for poisoned locusts), Illyrio (who is trying to double-cross her)...

 

I'm willing to bet that Quiathe would also include people like Barristan, Irri or Missandei in her "prophecy" if she found a plausible way to do so.



#11 Magic 8 Ball

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 06:35 PM

The most useless prophecy has to go to the Ghost of High Heart, for correctly prophesying that Sansa would defend a snow castle from Sweetrobin's  doll.



#12 Apple Martini

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 06:35 PM

I don't think it means they are "evil" it just means that all these people were coming to her because of her dragons not because of her, that's why Quaithe said she shouldn't trust them.

 

This is true about the vast majority of people in her orbit, though. It is not about her, it's about the dragons. That fact is not exclusive to the people in Quaithe's warning.

 

 

The most useless prophecy has to go to the Ghost of High Heart, for correctly prophesying that Sansa would defend a snow castle from Sweetrobin's  doll.

 

Actually that probably refers to Sansa killing Baelish, and the snow castle is a feint. Not to get off-topic, but yeah.


Edited by Apple Martini, 20 October 2013 - 06:35 PM.


#13 Magic 8 Ball

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 06:43 PM

If Sansa offs Baelish, then I reserve the right to retroactively upgrade the Ghost's prophesy to highly significant.

 

If it stands as is, it is a hilarious example of seeing "true prophecy" that is laughably insignificant.



#14 TheMysteriousOne

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 06:50 PM

I think Quaithe's prophecies are very important to Dany, especially since we've had hints of her appearing to Dany since AGOT.

 

 She dreamed. All her cares fell away from her, and all her pains as well, and she seemed to float upward into the sky. She was flying once again, spinning, laughing, dancing, as the stars wheeled around her and whispered secrets in her ear. “To go north, you must journey south. To reach the west, you must go east. To go forward, you must go back. To touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow.” 
“Quaithe?” Dany called. “Where are you, Quaithe?” 
Then she saw. Her mask is made of starlight. “Remember who you are, Daenerys,” the stars whispered in a woman’s voice. “The dragons know. Do you?” 
 
Look at Dany's fevered dream in AGOT: 
 
 And [Dany] saw her brother Rhaegar, mounted on a stallion as black as his armor. Fire glimmered red through the narrow eye slit of his helm. “The last dragon,” Ser Jorah’s voice whispered faintly.  “The last, the last.” Dany lifted his polished black visor. The face within was her own.   After that, for a long time, there was only the pain, the fire within her, and the whisperings of stars
 
This doesn't mean that Quaithe isn't working against Dany, but I think that Quaithe is integral to Dany.

Edited by TheMysteriousOne, 20 October 2013 - 06:55 PM.


#15 Apple Martini

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 06:54 PM

If Sansa offs Baelish, then I reserve the right to retroactively upgrade the Ghost's prophesy to highly significant.

 

If it stands as is, it is a hilarious example of seeing "true prophecy" that is laughably insignificant.

 

That's actually the biggest reason to think the snow castle really is just a feint -- because, especially surrounded by other people's actual deaths as it was, it would never actually be fulfilled by something so "laughably insignificant." Your derision for the snow castle is the very reason why the snow castle is not the actual fulfillment and never was.



#16 grand old duke of stark

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 07:05 PM

Quaithe--good, bad, or indifferent--did Dany one big favour: her cryptic prophecies made her wary.  Dany is young and the young are likely to believe people are kind, and supportive, especially when they say they're supportive.  Now, wary can lead to paranoid, and that way madness lies.  But Dany is at least on the alert. 

 

Some crackpottery: Marwyn is a glass candle user, and in the Citadel the lighting of the glass candle is a significant milestone.  One of Quaithe's prophecies starts: "The glass candles are burning".  It's an interesting declaration.  Hmmmm.  Could it be Marwyn behind Quaithe's mask?



#17 RoamingRonin

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 07:12 PM

<snip>

 

 

Seems like Dany is using Quaithe to personify her own internal struggles. 



#18 Usrnmhsnomning

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 07:14 PM

Maybe Quaithe is to fire as Bloodraven is to ice, and they are just playing a game of thrones at the next level. Quaithe could just be grooming Dany to act in a way that she wants her to, much like Bloodraven is probably doing for Bran and Jon.



#19 TheMysteriousOne

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 07:15 PM

 

Seems like Dany is using Quaithe to personify her own internal struggles. 

I don't think so. Quaithe is providing her with prophecies and information, so unless Dany is a prophet, I think that Quaithe is communicating with her via glass candle.



#20 Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 07:25 PM

I don't think so. Quaithe is providing her with prophecies and information, so unless Dany is a prophet, I think that Quaithe is communicating with her via glass candle.

Yea I believe she has been putting an eye on Dany since AGOT or even beyond that time.

Glass candles work very similar to weirnets/greenseeing they can see over long distances and can enter people's dreams so that's a high possibility.