Jump to content

And the price for the most useless prophecy goes to...


Recommended Posts

I think its not really a prophecy she said "remember the undying" they wanted Dany because of her "dragons"

All of these people were coming to Dany because of her "dragons"

I don't think it means they are "evil" it just means that all these people were coming to her because of her dragons not because of her, that's why Quaithe said she shouldn't trust them.

Quaithe saw them by using glass candles, which can be uses to scan across lands far and wide.

She didn't add Marwyn because marwyn is not coming to Dany because of her "dragons" he is the only one actually coming for "Dany"

If Dany didn't have dragons the others wouldn't come. Marwyn would still come since he came under a messsage from Aemon from Sam and he didn't even put stock into the prophecy, or the alternative could be Marwyn has a way of blocking Quaithe since he uses glass candles as well.

I agree.

I too think that the giant is Littlefinger (Titan of Braavos), and the Snow castle Winterfell. LF is using Sansa to get Winterfell. The fact that the snow castle she builds represents Winterfell is just another clue that she will kill/get rid of Baelish to protect it IMO. The Ghost of High Heart's prophecies are very accurate and describe extremely important events, she would have no reason to predict an actual snow castle destroyed by a kid and his doll.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The mummer's dragon one always devolves into an argument about punctuation, which makes my life that much more worth living.

That is because an alarming number of posters are too damned lazy to reread the last Dany chapter in ACoK. Otherwise they would see that the phrase therewithin is "mummer's dragon" with the apostrophe. How this piece of stupidity got widespread currency in the forum is a mystery to me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think so. Quaithe is providing her with prophecies and information, so unless Dany is a prophet, I think that Quaithe is communicating with her via glass candle.

I think the real Quaithe appeared to Dany in her pyramid in Meereen via the Glass Candles.

Starlight-Mask/Quaithe at the end of ADWD is only in Dany's head.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree.

I too think that the giant is Littlefinger (Titan of Braavos), and the Snow castle Winterfell. LF is using Sansa to get Winterfell. The fact that the snow castle she builds represents Winterfell is just another clue that she will kill/get rid of Baelish to protect it IMO. The Ghost of High Heart's prophecies are very accurate and describe extremely important events, she would have no reason to predict an actual snow castle destroyed by a kid and his doll.

The Snow Castle led directly to Lady Lysa's attempt to kill Sansa and to Littlefinger pushing Lysa out the Moon Door. Trivial? I would say not. One could use a bit better memory for events in the story hereabouts.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Assuming that it did not actually refer to the Mare that Mounts the World.

From the HOTU 'Daughter of Death' section;

A tall lord with copper skin and silver-gold hair stood beneath the banner of a fiery stallion, a burning city behind him.

This seems to be about Rhaego. The burning stallion sigil on the banner calls to mind the SWMTW. The fact that its in the 'Daughter of Death' section (along side Viserys) shows that it was about someone who is already dead. I mean anything could happen, I suppose.. but I am 99% sure the SWMTW referred to Rhaego and will never be fulfilled.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This seems to be about Rhaego. The burning stallion sigil on the banner calls to mind the SWMTW. The fact that its in the 'Daughter of Death' section (along side Viserys) shows that it was about someone who is already dead. I mean anything could happen, I suppose.. but I am 99% sure the SWMTW referred to Rhaego and will never be fulfilled.

Thinking out loud here, but when the person who will eventually fulfill a prophecy dies before they can fulfill it, is that it? The prophecy is defunct? Or does its fulfillment transfer to someone else? Or in a "when a tree falls in the forest ..." way, if Rhaego died without fulfilling the prophecy, does that not suggest that he wasn't the fulfillment? You can't be the one to fulfill something if you never fulfill it. This also has implications with Aegon: Was Rhaegar wrong, and he isn't the PTWP and never was; was that fulfillment passed on to someone else; or is it defunct completely since Aegon is dead.

Side note: if Rhaego was the actual fulfillment and now it's defunct, I don't think that's a bad thing, considering what he seemingly would have become.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thinking out loud here, but when the person who will eventually fulfill a prophecy dies before they can fulfill it, is that it? The prophecy is defunct? Or does its fulfillment transfer to someone else? Or in a "when a tree falls in the forest ..." way, if Rhaego died without fulfilling the prophecy, does that not suggest that he wasn't the fulfillment? You can't be the one to fulfill something if you never fulfill it. This also has implications with Aegon: Was Rhaegar wrong, and he isn't the PTWP and never was; was that fulfillment passed on to someone else; or is it defunct completely since Aegon is dead.

Side note: if Rhaego was the actual fulfillment and now it's defunct, I don't think that's a bad thing, considering what he seemingly would have become.

Faith in prophesy is a tricky thing. I think these sorts of prophesies could have their interpretations bent to fit actual events. In the same way that we can argue for almost any younger sibling in the series to be Cersei's Valonqar. Is it Sandor, Jaime, Tyrion, or even Arya... it almost seems like no matter how it goes down we can make the events fit the prophesy.

The difference I see with the Stallion prophesy is that the others like TPTWP and AA are very old and have been translated between languages in many cases. With the SWMTW, we (readers) were present at the time of its telling. There is no mistaking the gender. There is no mistaking the details. It was said to be about Dany and Drogo's son. A son that is now dead.

Does the cosmic burden of fulfillment now fall to another (Dany)? I suppose it is possible... but I just don't see it yet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Qyburn seems to know a thing or two about magic and he told Cersei that it was possible to forestall prophecy and that she all ready knew how to do it. Mirri certianly thought she had sucseeded in forestalling the prophecy by killing Rhaego and she was a maegi. Mel says that it is possible to change the visions she sees in her fires or at least delay them. Its Jojen Reed that claims his dream visions can not be changed and never lie. So most opinions seem to be that prophecies or visions can be averted, delayed or eliminated totally by killing the person they are about.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

That Quaithe was real.

But the Quaithe with the mask made of starlight that Dany sees at the end of ADWD is figment of her own mind.

Ah, sorry, I took this to be a more general reference. That Quaithe is actually a figment of Dany 's imagination tout court has ofttimes been propounded in the forum, I fear I read your post too quickly
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Qyburn seems to know a thing or two about magic and he told Cersei that it was possible to forestall prophecy and that she all ready knew how to do it. Mirri certianly thought she had sucseeded in forestalling the prophecy by killing Rhaego and she was a maegi. Mel says that it is possible to change the visions she sees in her fires or at least delay them. Its Jojen Reed that claims his dream visions can not be changed and never lie. So most opinions seem to be that prophecies or visions can be averted, delayed or eliminated totally by killing the person they are about.

Assuming you get that right in the first instance, which it appears, Cersei did not. If the one younger and more beautiful is e.g. Sansa or Dany then Cersei is SOL. Indeed having Cersei confused on this might be one way of guarantee'ing that Maggy's prediction comes true after all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Faith in prophesy is a tricky thing. I think these sorts of prophesies could have their interpretations bent to fit actual events. In the same way that we can argue for almost any younger sibling in the series to be Cersei's Valonqar. Is it Sandor, Jaime, Tyrion, or even Arya... it almost seems like no matter how it goes down we can make the events fit the prophesy.

The difference I see with the Stallion prophesy is that the others like TPTWP and AA are very old and have been translated between languages in many cases. With the SWMTW, we (readers) were present at the time of its telling. There is no mistaking the gender. There is no mistaking the details. It was said to be about Dany and Drogo's son. A son that is now dead.

Does the cosmic burden of fulfillment now fall to another (Dany)? I suppose it is possible... but I just don't see it yet.

It may have been a misinterpretation since the prophecy was visual.

I mean they never have a prophecy and the moment Dany comes they have one.

"As swift as the wind he rides, and behind him his khalasar covers the earth, men without number, with arakhs shining in their hands like blades of razor grass. Fierce as a storm this prince will be. His enemies will tremble before him, and their wives will weep tears of blood and rend their flesh in grief. The bells in his hair will sing his coming, and the milk men in the stone tents will fear his name." The old woman trembled and looked at Dany almost as if she were afraid. "The prince is riding, and he shall be the stallion who mounts the world."

Women are looked down upon in the Dothraki society they may have saw Dany and interpreted it as the child she would give birth to.

I even have my own crackpot that the weeping blood may have been weirwoods and they didnt see it well which could foreshadow Dany against greenseers/wargs etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"I even have my own crackpot that the weeping blood may have been weirwoods and they didnt see it well which could foreshadow Dany against greenseers/wargs etc."

Ahem.... One of those greenseers is her great-grandfather's uncle. I see no reason to suppose that Lord Brynden has abandoned his house, even as his concern has expanded to the safety of all of Westeros.

We don't know what the relationship was between Lord Brynden and Aemon but the only indication is the latter's remark about traveling to the Wall with "no less a man" than Lord Brynden which suggests a certain respect which would not be consistent with Bloodraven becoming hostile to their house.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...