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why did Stannis mock Maester Cressen?


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309 replies to this topic

#1 im317

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 09:44 PM

in aCoK prologue Lady Selyse suggests Cressen should wear Parchface's crown and Stannis more or less commands Cressen to wear it. why does Stannis do this? it goes against his character and everything he stands for.



#2 Mad Monkey

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 09:49 PM

I think he just lost his temper. Selyse tries to push the joke to its logical content by ordering Cressen to sing his advice in the future and Stannis says, 'No, you go too far. He has served me well.' It was a dick move but I think he felt bad about it.



#3 Trinton07

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 09:49 PM

yeah this is one of the weirder and just not respectable thing that stannis does. i guess it was like, to please his lords? i dont know it was a weird scene. but  yeah despite all his big talk about "we'll make new lords" he seems pretty tractable when it comes to pleasing his lords so idk i gusse he was trying to earn their favor. they seemed to think it was funny so yeah. desire to be loved and all that


Edited by Trinton07, 20 October 2013 - 09:50 PM.


#4 Seņor de la Tormenta

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 09:53 PM

As a Stannis fan this is the scene I find the hardest to get along with.

Edited by Seņor de la Tormenta, 20 October 2013 - 09:55 PM.


#5 Draco_Dracul

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 09:54 PM

Because despite how many on this site build him up, Stannis is a very petty man.



#6 Minsc

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 09:54 PM

Because, Stannis can be quite a dick at times.



#7 im317

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 10:02 PM

Because, Stannis can be quite a dick at times.

can you show me any other incidents where he acts even remotely like this to someone that is loyal to him?



#8 Minsc

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 10:05 PM

can you show me any other incidents where he acts even remotely like this to someone that is loyal to him?

 

Stannis calling Gilly a whore, despite her doing nothing against him.



#9 im317

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 10:07 PM

 

Stannis calling Gilly a whore, despite her doing nothing against him.

she did nothing against him but also nothing for him. plus someone who does not know how Craster forced his wives/daughters to participate(or who did know as the older wives seemed content to go along with it) i can see how he might have meant that almost in the actual definition of the word



#10 Minsc

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 10:09 PM

she did nothing against him but also nothing for him. plus someone who does not know how Craster forced his wives/daughters to participate(or who did know as the older wives seemed content to go along with it) i can see how he might have meant that almost in the actual definition of the word

 

That doesn't mean he isn't a dick.

 

Honestly, it isn't hard to see that Stannis can have a pretty petty and dickish behavior at times towards individuals.



#11 im317

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 10:10 PM

 

That doesn't mean he isn't a dick.

 

Honestly, it isn't hard to see that Stannis can have a pretty petty and dickish behavior at times towards individuals.

i dont deny it. im not on anyones side. this just stands out to me as possibly the sole time Stannis openly mocks one of his loyal supporters in front of others



#12 The Mountain That Flies

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 10:19 PM

Sorry, but does anyone have the actual quote? I don't remember what the exact words he used were, and since it was told from Cressen's POV it could be his emotions clouded how Stannis delivered the line.



#13 Ser Leftwich

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 10:23 PM

“You think not?” The ruby at Melisandre’s throat caught the light as she turned her head, and for an instant it seemed to glow bright as the comet. “If you will speak such folly, Maester, you ought to wear your crown again.” “Yes,” Lady Selyse agreed. “Patches’s helm. It suits you well, old man. Put it on again, I command you.”

 

“Under the sea, no one wears hats,” Patchface said. “I know, I know, oh, oh, oh.” Lord Stannis’s eyes were shadowed beneath his heavy brow, his mouth tight as his jaw worked silently. He always ground his teeth when he was angry. “Fool,” he growled at last, “my lady wife commands. Give Cressen your helm.”

 

No, the old maester thought, this is not you, not your way, you were always just, always hard yet never cruel, never, you did not understand mockery, no more than you understood laughter.

ACoK p. 27

 



#14 Ser Leftwich

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 10:28 PM

This is in part a demonstration of how much Stannis is a stickler for the letter of the law. Selsye has issued a direct command to a jester, in front of a number of others in the room, Stannis is upholding her authority and indirectly his own.

 

Selyse's next line (below) is just a suggestion and not a command, and Stannis immediately halts it.

 

 

 

Patchface danced closer, his cowbells ringing, clang-a-lang, ding-ding, clink-clank-clink-clank. The maester sat silent while the fool set the antlered bucket on his brow. Cressen bowed his head beneath the weight. His bells clanged. “Perhaps he ought sing his counsel henceforth,” Lady Selyse said.

“You go too far, woman,” Lord Stannis said. “He is an old man, and he’s served me well.”


Edited by Ser Leftwich, 20 October 2013 - 10:30 PM.


#15 bent branch

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 10:36 PM

This is in part a demonstration of how much Stannis is a stickler for the letter of the law. Selsye has issued a direct command to a jester, in front of a number of others in the room, Stannis is upholding her authority and indirectly his own.

 

Selyse's next line (below) is just a suggestion and not a command, and Stannis immediately halts it.

 

 

 

:agree:



#16 Dagon

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 10:43 PM

This is in part a demonstration of how much Stannis is a stickler for the letter of the law. Selsye has issued a direct command to a jester, in front of a number of others in the room, Stannis is upholding her authority and indirectly his own.

 

Selyse's next line (below) is just a suggestion and not a command, and Stannis immediately halts it.

 

 

 

Yea, I don't think he much enjoyed it at all.



#17 direwienerdog

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 10:55 PM

There are many Stannis fans who didn't like him at all during the beginning of the story. In fact most didn't like him at all till he goes north and admits to "putting the cart before the horse".
Many can never forgive Stannis for many faults. He is fascinating and definitely staunch and stuffy, but he is no one's man but his own.

#18 Gargarax

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 11:03 PM

This is in part a demonstration of how much Stannis is a stickler for the letter of the law. Selsye has issued a direct command to a jester, in front of a number of others in the room, Stannis is upholding her authority and indirectly his own.

 

Selyse's next line (below) is just a suggestion and not a command, and Stannis immediately halts it.

 

Hardly convincing, as there is no reason why Stannis should not contradict an order to his wife. If he allows that his subjects are mocked just because somebody has authority over them, he is an even bigger dick. Besides, if mocking the elderly is in accordance with "the letter of law", Stannis has a pretty fudged up understanding of law.



#19 Russo

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 11:09 PM

I thought he only did it because his wife commanded it. He was angry that she did though and said as much. I dont think he wanted to.

#20 Ser Leftwich

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 11:34 PM

 

Hardly convincing, as there is no reason why Stannis should not contradict an order to his wife. If he allows that his subjects are mocked just because somebody has authority over them, he is an even bigger dick. Besides, if mocking the elderly is in accordance with "the letter of law", Stannis has a pretty fudged up understanding of law.

 

The reason is Stannis's central characteristic; he does not lead, he follows. It is related to Stannis's characteristics as a second son. He would not change a command.

 

Stannis was enforcing the command to Patchface, not the mocking of Cressen. That it could be interpreted as mocking to Cressen is secondary to the command to Patchface.

 

When Selyse suggests directly and/or actively mocking Cressen, with the singing, Stannis calls it to a halt.