Audrey Arryn Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 When you think about it, the "dragon" aspect of Dany's personality has been a sociopathic asshole from the get-go. HAHA on the words you used but I agree, most humans find it wrong to burn people even if they hate them but it seems most targaryens don't, like Dany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alayne's Shadow. Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 GRRM normally kills off his POV characters at the time when their deaths would have the most impact. I don't see GRRM sending Tyrion to Meereen to no purpose other than to meet Dany just for her to kill him. Besides, Tyrion is skilled with words, and he may know how to sway her. If she asks how can she trust him, his reply would likely be somewhere along the lines of what he told Aegon: he doesn't expect her to trust him as she should trust no one. He will have consolidated some things in Meereen for her. I agree with the point that GRRM wouldn't do that on a plot logic, since It would make little sense, but on a character logic, Daenerys seems to be unforgiving of even Ned Stark, when confronted with the idea that he didn't approved of the murders. Even if she does, there's still hardly a chance for their wedding or for her to put him as Hand. And if she does, then It would seem for me, personally, that she would be closer to a peace with the Starks. Barristan seems to advise against a war with them and I personally believe Tyrion won't advise her to attack them. Forgiving a Lannister a big step on her making a compromise, and that would open a precedence. Also, in general, the Starks are not tied to Stannis's claim - Arya doesn't have a claim, Sansa's claim is hers (With the Knights of the Vale!), Bran is hardly on a position to think about claims and Rickon is still a small child - and the Northern Lords would stand behind him and not Stannis probably. Jon doesn't seem to be team Stannis as much as he is Team who fights the Others. I think him consolidating Meereen might be a good start, but I'm not completely sold that It's enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Knute Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 I'd agree that she will likely follow Anakin's footsteps to some degree, but I'm not so sure that her arc will mirror Anakin's to that degree. GRRM does take bits from other stories both history and fiction however he doesn't usually follow them identically. I'm not saying Dany won't fall hard like Anakin, but I think the 'how far' will be the key. I think there'll be a point where she does some serious reflecting, not only at herself but at other Targaryen's in history to help guide her back to as close to her initial path as she can get. I think will be the case as she meets Tyrion and learns even more about Targaryen history, possibly backed by Barristan's account of other Targaryens (Aerys especially) and his time serving them. I think this will be the point at which she realizes she must either go 'all-in' with the House Words, Fire and Blood or find a better way to use the Dragons' power to achieve her goals. She has to realize at some point (or should) that some goals aren't just accomplished in a short time-frame, as her long struggle(s) and journey back to the 7Ks will serve to show her. The question is how does GRRM envision her character ultimately? It seems as though to this point GRRM has painted the whole story in such a way that most POV characters have copious amounts of good and bad within them. It's like the whole story is a case of Man's moral ambiguity and how that ambiguity affects everyone from their closest loves, to their relatives to their inner circle to the public at-large. I really just can't guess at the moment how GRRM views Dany in the grand scheme. I don't see a grandiose happy-ending for anyone, more like a lot of trials and tribulations of a personal nature, with some going down the dark side path and some going down the path of righteousness, but exactly WHOM will fit on either road I can't say. Heck Jon appears to be the Hero in-wait at this point but he too could end up going down a dark-path personally, as could Bran. Since we know the original book ender was suppsed to be titled: A TIme For Wolves, that can lead us to some speculation of how he intends to end the story, or at least, end this part of the tale, but other than that I'm rather skeptical about how some arcs are going to play out. Some characters appear to have really bad character (Roose, Euron, Ramsey, Cersei) and others really great character (Jon, Brienne, Sansa) and a great deal of the rest fall somewhere in between. Just when we think we've pinned one down for sure, out comes the rug! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya kiddin' Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Can we argue the same for Bran? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagon Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 No, she is our Mhysa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya kiddin' Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 No, she is our Mhysa. :crying: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qixoticneurotic Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 yeah. i see dany leading the army of fire. every bit as destructive as the wights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Eater Posted October 21, 2013 Author Share Posted October 21, 2013 I agree with the point that GRRM wouldn't do that on a plot logic, since It would make little sense, but on a character logic, Daenerys seems to be unforgiving of even Ned Stark, when confronted with the idea that he didn't approved of the murders. Even if she does, there's still hardly a chance for their wedding or for her to put him as Hand. And if she does, then It would seem for me, personally, that she would be closer to a peace with the Starks. Barristan seems to advise against a war with them and I personally believe Tyrion won't advise her to attack them. Forgiving a Lannister a big step on her making a compromise, and that would open a precedence. Also, in general, the Starks are not tied to Stannis's claim - Arya doesn't have a claim, Sansa's claim is hers (With the Knights of the Vale!), Bran is hardly on a position to think about claims and Rickon is still a small child - and the Northern Lords would stand behind him and not Stannis probably. Jon doesn't seem to be team Stannis as much as he is Team who fights the Others. I think him consolidating Meereen might be a good start, but I'm not completely sold that It's enough. Forgive Tyrion, for what? He was a boy in CR at the time of Robert's Rebellion, and had no involvement with his family's actions. I don't think Barristan is long for this world to advise Dany. The Starks' bannermen are supporting Stannis, and Stannis will be supporting Rickon as Lord of WF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florina Laufeyson Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 No, she is our Mhysa. A Mhysa who is willing to chain up her babies. But weeps when her entire brood begins dying miserably. Shes almost like a tragic humanoid Shub Niggurath that way. (With almost as much destructive power....) Mother of a Thousand Young. (of course, not literally) If Dany is Annakin, Barristan is a pretty terrible Obi Wan. I do believe her arc will have Annakin/Vader/Anti-Villain shades to it. The specifics of the OP's theory makes me go "zuh?" however. "The dragons were dancing, and everywhere they danced, everyone died." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeirwoodTreeHugger Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 The more rereads I do and the more time I spend on the forums, Dany as a villain-like character seems more and more likely. Does anybody know if GRRM is a Star Wars fan?In terms of storytelling this would be the most interesting outcome. Dany as a hero who wins in the end is the impression one might get from a casual reading. Because of how on the surface obvious it is, it probably won't happen.The theory that she will marry Jon or Tyrion and then die giving birth to a son leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It seems like a waste of a whole lengthy storyline if it was all about providing an heir for one of the other POVs.Dany becoming more and more destructive even if she doesn't become a villain as bad as Gregor or Ramsay would just be a good story. Usually the antihero role is given to male characters so the prospect of getting a female antihero who descends deeper into darkness as the story goes on is exciting. I'm not sure about the specific predictions though. To Fire Eater, what made you think she'll go after Rickon? Is it because she's been reluctant to kill children in the past? She sets up a line she will not cross and eventually crosses it? I guess I could see that happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florina Laufeyson Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Dany becoming more and more destructive even if she doesn't become a villain as bad as Gregor or Ramsay would just be a good story. Yes. Dany, on a meta level, becoming darker and more destructive, makes for excellent fun. If this is the outcome, the reading becomes more and more intriguing. Pinpointing the when and where the Start of Darkness happens, but she still remains rather sympathetic to the reader. Its just like why Tyrion being painted as a much more loathsome figure in ADWD is so interesting. Its not very nice to see your favorite guy in a downward spiral of nastiness, but it makes for some fantastic character development and edge of your seat reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kienn Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Close... but I think it will go more like this. Benjen is found alive. He quits the NW since they killed/attacked his nephew and marries an Umber or Mormont to secure the North as KitN. Meanwhile Jon revives/recovers and quits the NW too. He's out doing some diplomacy for Benjen when Dany comes north and burns Winterfel, roasting Benjen's lady (Benjen was out too). Jon returns to find his aunt's roasted corpse and Dany flying away. He swears revenge and chases after her on his trusty steed Falcon. Dany is visited by Quaithe again who tells her Jon is her nephew, Dany is astonished and says "oopsie doodle". Jon tracks down Dany but falls in battle after losing his hand foot to an incredibly focused stream of arcing dragon fire. Dany stand over him as he screams at her for murdering his aunt. "No Jon, I AM your aunt" "NOOOOOOO..." "Now come with me and we shall rule Westeros as nephew and auntie and husband and wife!" Jon limps up and cuts off Dany's hand head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myrish Swamp Thing Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 So, when does Emilia Clarke get a sore throat? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Alysanne™ Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Can we argue the same for Bran? I think Dany and Bran are going to faceoff at one point in the series there is alot of paralleles in both their arcs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Balerion Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 This is from the original draft of ADWD...She looks at Ser Barristan and tells him that she told Xaro that she feared only one thing, though she would not tell the merchant what. Ser Barristan guesses that she only fears her dragons. “Myself,” Dany tells him. Her character is definitely moving towards the darker side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya kiddin' Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 I think Dany and Bran are going to faceoff at one point in the series there is alot of paralleles in both their arcs. Most likely in that case I'd have to abandon my Stark loyalty and go with Dany. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RKOpanther Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Most likely in that case I'd have to abandon my Stark loyalty and go with Dany. :( Why? If that happened Dany would have to first plow through the rest of the Starks to reach Bran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya kiddin' Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Why? If that happened Dany would have to first plow through the rest of the Starks to reach Bran. Loyalty order - Arya -> Sansa -> Cat -> Dany -> Brienne ->Mannis->Cersei...........................................-> Bran- > Jon ->..................................................->Tyrion ->Jaime. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Dany has what it takes to be the villain and I can especially see her as Darth Vader. Both of them went to the dark side but they had good intentions. Vader went to the dark side because he wanted to protect Padme, Dany went to the dark side when she wanted to bring what she called justice to Essos. Vader came back later but that is nothing special for the Skywalkers. Very eloquently written but I got one problem: Darth Vader is awesome, Dany on the other hand...Agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
direwienerdog Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Yes. Dany, on a meta level, becoming darker and more destructive, makes for excellent fun. If this is the outcome, the reading becomes more and more intriguing. Pinpointing the when and where the Start of Darkness happens, but she still remains rather sympathetic to the reader. Its just like why Tyrion being painted as a much more loathsome figure in ADWD is so interesting. Its not very nice to see your favorite guy in a downward spiral of nastiness, but it makes for some fantastic character development and edge of your seat reading. Yes to this. The thing with Tyrion helping Dany is they both are seeking revenge. Indeed a dark path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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