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NFL Week 8: End of the Weeden Dynasty


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#1 sperry

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 12:21 PM

So, Browns announce Campbell will replace Weeden as the starter.

 

 

Has there ever been another athlete who was a first round draft pick in two sports and a colossal flop in both of them?



#2 Jaime L

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 12:30 PM

So, Browns announce Campbell will replace Weeden as the starter.

 

 

Has there ever been another athlete who was a first round draft pick in two sports and a colossal flop in both of them?

 

Looks like he was a 2nd round pick in baseball but your point stands. Of all people, who would think of Brandon Weeden as this type of athlete exemplar?

 

I was gonna say Drew Henson but he only managed 3rd/6th rounds in MLB/NFL respectively. Least he can say his potential was enough to have Tom Brady sit the pine. He'll always have that.

 

ETA: Weeden was drafted by the Yankees in 2002 - coincidence they stopped making the world series every year after that?? I don't think so 


Edited by Jaime L, 23 October 2013 - 12:31 PM.


#3 sperry

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 12:39 PM

 

Looks like he was a 2nd round pick in baseball but your point stands. Of all people, who would think of Brandon Weeden as this type of athlete exemplar?

 

I was gonna say Drew Henson but he only managed 3rd/6th rounds in MLB/NFL respectively. Least he can say his potential was enough to have Tom Brady sit the pine. He'll always have that.

 

ETA: Weeden was drafted by the Yankees in 2002 - coincidence they stopped making the world series every year after that?? I don't think so 

 

I will say Weeden was incredible in baseball. I played against him in HS and he was the real deal. In football, the Browns seemed to have forgotten that he was a 28 year old man in his physical prime playing against a bunch of 20 year olds.  Look at what good NFL QBs are doing in the league at age 28.  That's usually when they're turning in their best seasons. And yet Weeden was just a good college QB, not a dominant one.  That's a guy you take in the 4th round and pencil in as a ready to go backup.



#4 Social Justice Darkstar

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 12:41 PM

Also, that's about as horrible a first round draft as I can think. Richardson 3.0 and weeden when they had the third overall pick. And could have had Russell Wilson.

#5 Social Justice Darkstar

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 12:45 PM

Seriously, look at that list of names. Kalil. Poe. Blackmon, who looks like a fucking beast in Jacksonville. Kuechley. Doug Martin and David Wilson. Half the players on that list have already after one year shown to be not just good players but legitimate studs - and the browns managed to miss twice. Wow.

#6 Pony Queen Jace

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 12:50 PM

The new management seems to have recouped value for Richardson. What a fucking waste. Willis McGahee was available to fumble in the 4th quarter at the time.



#7 BearShin

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 12:53 PM

 

I will say Weeden was incredible in baseball. I played against him in HS and he was the real deal. In football, the Browns seemed to have forgotten that he was a 28 year old man in his physical prime playing against a bunch of 20 year olds.  Look at what good NFL QBs are doing in the league at age 28.  That's usually when they're turning in their best seasons. And yet Weeden was just a good college QB, not a dominant one.  That's a guy you take in the 4th round and pencil in as a ready to go backup.

 

He was definitely an excellent baseball player. He's an excellent football player as well. In terms of athletic* ability, he's probably in the top 99.99% of the the country. Unfortunately, in order to live up to first or second round draft status, you'd have to be in the top 99.999% of the country. As a high school player, I wouldn't be able to tell the difference between 99.99% and 99.999%, given my position at around 50%

 

* Here I use athletic to convey all the skills that go into sports, including mental attributes.



#8 Jaime L

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 01:48 PM

Seriously, look at that list of names. Kalil. Poe. Blackmon, who looks like a fucking beast in Jacksonville. Kuechley. Doug Martin and David Wilson. Half the players on that list have already after one year shown to be not just good players but legitimate studs - and the browns managed to miss twice. Wow.

 

In retrospect Holmgrem couldn't have played a great hand any worse. Between badly missing on both of his first round picks, to not leveraging those picks to having the inside track on RGIII to getting fleeced out of further picks by the Vikings off a false threat that a team was going to move up and steal Richardson from them at #3, everything that could go wrong did go wrong. Hell they could've had Julio Jones from the draft before if they didn't trade down. I still think that was a great trade at the time, but not with who they ended up using those extra picks on.

 

So the end result was instead of RGIII, Julio Jones or any (and multiple) of the guys you named, it looks like all they'll have to show from it is a 2014 first round pick in the 20's and two more brutally disappointing seasons in which judging by the brief Brian Hoyer era, they weren't that far away at all. At least their second round pick Mitchell Schwartz is pretty good but their fans had their sights set a wee bit higher than that.
 



#9 Maithanet

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 02:11 PM

 

In retrospect Holmgrem couldn't have played a great hand any worse. Between badly missing on both of his first round picks, to not leveraging those picks to having the inside track on RGIII to getting fleeced out of further picks by the Vikings off a false threat that a team was going to move up and steal Richardson from them at #3, everything that could go wrong did go wrong. Hell they could've had Julio Jones from the draft before if they didn't trade down. I still think that was a great trade at the time, but not with who they ended up using those extra picks on.

 

So the end result was instead of RGIII, Julio Jones or any (and multiple) of the guys you named, it looks like all they'll have to show from it is a 2014 first round pick in the 20's and two more brutally disappointing seasons in which judging by the brief Brian Hoyer era, they weren't that far away at all. At least their second round pick Mitchell Schwartz is pretty good but their fans had their sights set a wee bit higher than that.
 

Couldn't agree more.  The Browns entered the 2012 draft with the #4 and #22 picks, and needed a quarterback.  Looking at it a year and a half later, there were three franchise guys available as well as one guy where the jury is still out (Tannehill).  And hell, it's possible that some of the other later picks could still work out like Osweiler or something.  But instead they get swindled out of the #4 pick by the Vikings and then settle for Weedon at #22, a guy who has "day 3 pick" written all over him.  Really an epically poor draft. 



#10 Social Justice Darkstar

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 02:21 PM

I hadn't noticed this, but this is one of the most awesome things ever. Chip Kelly did a victory formation from the shotgun against Greg Schiano and the Bucs. 



#11 Mexal

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 02:25 PM

I hadn't noticed this, but this is one of the most awesome things ever. Chip Kelly did a victory formation from the shotgun against Greg Schiano and the Bucs. 


I'm not impressed. Brett Favre said that every time they do the victory formation on his high school team, it's from the shotgun. Standard these days.

#12 Pony Queen Jace

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 02:30 PM

I'm not impressed. Brett Favre said that every time they do the victory formation on his high school team, it's from the shotgun. Standard these days.

 

I'm less impressed with the fact that there's no penis joke in that comment.



#13 Jaime L

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 02:36 PM

Couldn't agree more.  The Browns entered the 2012 draft with the #4 and #22 picks, and needed a quarterback.  Looking at it a year and a half later, there were three franchise guys available as well as one guy where the jury is still out (Tannehill).  And hell, it's possible that some of the other later picks could still work out like Osweiler or something.  But instead they get swindled out of the #4 pick by the Vikings and then settle for Weedon at #22, a guy who has "day 3 pick" written all over him.  Really an epically poor draft. 

 

Best thing you can say is they go back in the hopper with two first round picks in another loaded QB draft. There's still a time value of money cost to getting the key piece to a rebuild two years later, but at least they have that chance for a mulligan unlike most of the 2000's where you miss out on that good QB draft and you're in a QB desert for years. Hopefully new management has learned from old management's mistakes. Seems like they have with their stated thought process on the Richardson trade.



#14 Pony Queen Jace

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 02:41 PM

So Peyton misses practice today with an injured ankle.

 

On a relatively relative note, I think that after all of these injuries, the nfl practically has to go to 16-team playoff format to reduce injuries. If the games mean less, people won't hurt themselves trying so hard.



#15 sperry

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 02:43 PM

 

Best thing you can say is they go back in the hopper with two first round picks in another loaded QB draft. There's still a time value of money cost to getting the key piece to a rebuild two years later, but at least they have that chance for a mulligan unlike most of the 2000's where you miss out on that good QB draft and you're in a QB desert for years. Hopefully new management has learned from old management's mistakes. Seems like they have with their stated thought process on the Richardson trade.

 

 

It might be a loaded class. Bridgewater will be in, but I actually think Mariota and Hundley are likely to return to school. I also think Mariota is a very risky pick.  Manziel is similarly risky.  Boyd and McCarron look like backups to me.



#16 Mexal

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 02:46 PM

So Peyton misses practice today with an injured ankle.
 
On a relatively relative note, I think that after all of these injuries, the nfl practically has to go to 16-team playoff format to reduce injuries. If the games mean less, people won't hurt themselves trying so hard.

I don't buy this logic at all. Players will still play hard and players will still get hurt. It's the nature of the game. 16 team playoffs is dumb.

If they truly care about player safety, they'll get rid of Thursday night games.

Edited by Mexal, 23 October 2013 - 02:46 PM.


#17 Pony Queen Jace

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 02:49 PM

I don't buy this logic at all. Players will still play hard and players will still get hurt. It's the nature of the game. 16 team playoffs is dumb.

If they truly care about player safety, they'll get rid of Thursday night games.

Have you ever played 'Mass Effect 2'?



#18 Mexal

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 03:03 PM

 

Have you ever played 'Mass Effect 2'?


Nope.

#19 Jaime L

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 03:05 PM

 

 

It might be a loaded class. Bridgewater will be in, but I actually think Mariota and Hundley are likely to return to school. I also think Mariota is a very risky pick.  Manziel is similarly risky.  Boyd and McCarron look like backups to me.

 

Quite possibly. I've just heard a lot of excitement about this class (primarily Bridgewater, Mariota and Hundley) and all the mocks I've seen have 5-7 first round QBs going off the board. I don't think we've seen that number since '99. There's a ton of options out there not even getting into the Derek Carr's of the world. I guess we'll see how many good ones though. 



#20 Pony Queen Jace

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 03:06 PM

 
Nope.

Well, I'll dispense with the reference then.

 

It was a joke.