What westeros possibly looks like, scaled up to size on google earth.

[doubletee]

Edit: I've completely remade the map based on new information about George's intendes sizes for westeros See the bottom after reading these. Also added a closer up comparison of the Iron islands for size.

My latest & most accurate scale of Westeros:

http://img.photobuck...zps874d0b6b.png

I know this is a topic that has been debated and talked about a whole lot. I also know that it's hard to form much of a real concensus about how it looks based on some of the "leagues" or miles given for distance descriptions in the books. Especially considering thar Martin himself has released a few bit here and there about the size of westeros. I don't have any proof of that myself as I've only heard others make comments that George claimed the north part beyong the wall to be the size of canada, and others say that he went on record that his world was bigger than earth, etc. Regardless, there are some concrete things that were said in the books (as far as I can recall) as to the distance of some things. I know that some of it might contradict other bits, and there is a million possabilities, but I wanted to share this picture with you. My younger brother read the part about the length of the wall being 300 miles long, and so he made this scaled up image of westeros to meet that description.

http://imgur.com/gallery/8Kh0mxi

Basically, if the wall is 300 miles in length. He took an image of the map of westeros, overlaid it onto google earth making it transparent, and then scaled it up in size until the red line marking the wall in the north part matched 'roughly' 300 miles acording to the distance scale on google earth. Which is roughly.. about 3/4 the length of the bottom portion of British columbia in canada (which so happens to be the spot he place the wall at.)

I know it's a bit of a crackpot image, and its based only on the one description given that distance. I think it's interesting none the less and thought a few of you might want to see it. I posted it in another geography thread, but figured I might as well make another one just for this.

Obviously, there seem to be any number of holes in this image. The size does seem to be somewhat ridiculous... Even though it is a drawn map it still brings up certain questions, such as the lack of lakes and rivers in such a huge area that appears to be about 70% or more of north and south america in comparison. Not to mention the overall size of the cities, and population in asoiaf. All the small inn's and towns, in the middle of nowhere. The overall fresh water, and forest area seems relatively small considering that this is potentially as big as our western world on earth. However, there are a great many of arguments to be made about how it's only a drawing of a map, nowhere near the detail shown in a satalite image like google earth, and it's a fantasy series of course, and the scope is huge. There is always a possibility that George threw out that number for the walls length just for perspective and did not plan much else in relation to that size. It could be another simple, non important case of the color of renly's eyes. Or it could just be a grossly gigantic world like some of his apparent comments in 'various interviews' leads to believe.

At any rate, I am not trying to prove anything as fact, I know it's just a fiction and all that. I am not attempting to debate what the actual size is either. Personally I feel like a much smaller scale like the british isles seems more possible, but you can't really argue with what George himself has said haha. I just thought It might be worth sharing for discussion!

Edit: I remade a new version. This is the latest version I've added to the thread on page 2. It is so far the most accurate image I've been able to put together, based on a whole bunch of different resources.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v122/tommyknoker/westerosmap_zps0501bcd6.png

And... Probably a better placement laterally within our world, in relation to our won equator, under the assumtion that the westeros world is similar in size. The climates seem to match up with our own.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v122/tommyknoker/howwesterosrelatesinclimatetoours_zps743dc2b1.png

Update with Iron island actual size comparison:

http://img.photobuck...zps01cc5ab6.png

New world map comparison, now with more detail, Iron islands, and an adjusted length and distance legend.

I truly believe that this version is 100% to description. I have now made countless different updates and versions, but I found a big 'whoops' in my last one with the length Since then I have properly scaled it and checked everything according to the distance legend. I cleaned up a new version with far better cutting and scaling by using a better resolution map to start with (rather than a picture on my camera phone.) I've also tried to place it in roughly the right longitude and latitude if we were to pretend the world in asoiaf matches earth 100%. I personally don't think it's all that far off in globe size.

http://img.photobuck...zps874d0b6b.png

[Tommen Beetsbane]

ive read on the wiki its roughly the size of s. merica

[Arya is Awesome]

I think someone said that the travel from Kingslanding to Winterfell was 1000 leagues. But I feel like a drawn map, in a time similar to the middle ages, is unlikely to be exactly to scale anyway.

[yolkboy]

I've never seen a map like this, I liked it. Yeah, grrm likened Westeros to s. america size-wise.

[Free Northman]

Nice work.

An obvious comment is that Dorne should correspond more to the desert latitudes around Northern Mexico, but that could be explained by the planet being slightly larger or the Wall being a tad further North.

But what is clear is that the North itself is not an equivalent to Canada. The Lands Beyond the Wall are Canada. Particularly Northern Canada and Alaska.

The North itself is an equivalent to the northern United States and maybe extreme southern Canada.

[Myrish Swamp Thing]

Nice work.

An obvious comment is that Dorne should correspond more to the desert latitudes around Northern Mexico, but that could be explained by the planet being slightly larger or the Wall being a tad further North.

But what is clear is that the North itself is not an equivalent to Canada. The Lands Beyond the Wall are Canada. Particularly Northern Canada and Alaska.

The North itself is an equivalent to the northern United States and maybe extreme southern Canada.

Yep, notice that this pic has the Wall in the US/Canada border. For the climates to match up, it should be at least 15 degrees farther north. In the pic Sunspear looks to be at about the same latitude as Lima, so about 12 degrees south. The Peruvian coast is actually rather arid, so that bit is plausible.

[doubletee]

I think someone said that the travel from Kingslanding to Winterfell was 1000 leagues. But I feel like a drawn map, in a time similar to the middle ages, is unlikely to be exactly to scale anyway.

That actually sounds familiar. I haven't read through the series anytime recently, but I do recall from a recent re-watch of the show, Yoren shouts to his nightswatch recruits something along the lines: "Come on you sorry sons of whores! It's a thousand leagues from here to the wall, and winter is coming!" A thousand leagues is equal to 3,450 miles. Which relatively lines up with the picture from above. The longer red line drawn shows the kings road from Winterfell to Kings Landing, which equals out to something like 2600 or so? I can't recall what my brother said for that exact number. That would put the remainder of that distance somewhere around the 1000 leagues mark.

You make a valid point about the medevil drawn map, however one point I would like to add there, is that this isn't the map that the lords of Westeros drew up, it's the one George Martin made when creating this world, so I assume its closer to reality. That being said, the image that was used for this particular experiment was not necessarily created using realistic measurments of distance like our modern maps are. So it's hard to say that George drew the wall and while knowing the distance for that, drew the rest of the perameters for his continents based on that distance, so it would coencide with other refferences from the story i.e: the distance from KL to the wall.

ive read on the wiki its roughly the size of s. merica

I am hearing the same thing now from quite a few people and frankly, that makes a hell of a lot more sense as far as the story goes. I would like to try and re-create this image while obeying the known guidlines established by George himself. Such as Westeros being equal in size to South America, north of the wall being equal to canada in general size. I would like to put something like that together, and see if it's still possible to fit in the 300 mile long wall and a 3,400 mile road from KL to the wall. Clarification there being on the road, and not 'as the crow flies.'

Nice work.

An obvious comment is that Dorne should correspond more to the desert latitudes around Northern Mexico, but that could be explained by the planet being slightly larger or the Wall being a tad further North.

But what is clear is that the North itself is not an equivalent to Canada. The Lands Beyond the Wall are Canada. Particularly Northern Canada and Alaska.

The North itself is an equivalent to the northern United States and maybe extreme southern Canada.

Yeah this is also true. I happen to live in British Columbia, Canada, on the west coast. The rest of my family including my brothers all live on the other side right side of the province and since this was originally just something between the two of us, he took the known distance in miles from where I live, to my parents house (which cuts roughly straight across the bottom of B.C, right along the U.S border) and then just filled in the portion equal to 300 miles. That makes a red line that is, give or take, 3/4 of the distance from my part of lower B.C to them. So that's why you se this whole concept placed on a lower degree in comparison to our globe. Otherwise you are correct, and it should have been higher up. Another interesting point for anyone who has, or has seen the maps from Georges "lands of ice and fire" complete known world map book. It is filled with large scale poster size maps for various areas in the world such as, the west, the east, the north, the known world, kings landing, bravos, etc. I will post a link at the bottom of this to a picture I just took that shows the most detailed map currently released by George himself of the entire known world.

Known world:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v122/tommyknoker/20131025_233514_zpsb3b820d0.jpg

This map shows a much clearer representation of the nothern and southern hemesphere in asoiaf world. While westeros is known to be the size of South America roughly according to George, it's also assumed to be more in line with where you would find North America on our own globe. Dorne, perhaps landing somewhere between the lower Californian coast and mexico, which seems like it would relate across the map into essos as well (in regards to climate and hemesphere.) See image below for our own world comparison. When trying to judge the actual globe size here, I think it would be fairly safe to make the assumption that the equator cuts somewhere around the level of Dorne, Volantis, Slavers Bay, The Red Waste, and so on. Meaning that the 'unknown' part of the world not shown yet in the south, probably only extends a bit further than what we see in order to put the equator roughly in the middle of the globe.

Earth map comparison:

http://ech.net/kayak/globe/map1.jpg

They seem to be much the same in the way of climate in regards to the general location of things within the globe of asoiaf. It would just be a matter of lineing up their locations and size better now, and trying to see if it works with the distances. Sounds like a good project to try and work on.

[Free Northman]

It is not a thousand leagues from Kings Landing to the Wall as the crow flies. That was a figure of speech. Maybe it comes close in terms of actual distance covered following the lay of the land.

But in a straight line it is 3000 miles from the Wall to the southern tip of Dorne. In other words, 1000 leagues from the top to the bottom of the Seven Kingdoms.

As for the equator, it lies well south of Dorne, more or less at the Summer Isles and the jungles of Sothoryos.

[Free Northman]

Regarding the edited map, the South America comparison includes the Lands Beyond the Wall. Furthermore, it is widely considered to refer to the length of South America only, not its actual surface area. This can easily be calculated based on the 300 mile length of the Wall.

[doubletee]

It is not a thousand leagues from Kings Landing to the Wall as the crow flies. That was a figure of speech. Maybe it comes close in terms of actual distance covered following the lay of the land.

But in a straight line it is 3000 miles from the Wall to the southern tip of Dorne. In other words, 1000 leagues from the top to the bottom of the Seven Kingdoms.

As for the equator, it lies well south of Dorne, more or less at the Summer Isles and the jungles of Sothoryos.

That might well be. The kings road definitely doesn't travel in a straight line. I wasn't under the impression that it zig zagged enough in traveling from KL to the wall that the trip could equal the distance from the tip of Dorne to the wall. Then again it's like you said. It can be a figure of speach as well, and maybe Yoren just said that as an off-handed remark.

I remade a new version of the original overlaid idea on our own world map, this time conforming to certain things george confirmed, such as the size of westeros from the wall to dorne being equal to South America, and north of the wall being equal to canada in size. I used the official lands of ice and fire poster of the known world, and scaled that image down until it roughly fit the size of South America. As far as the placement goes. I put it inline with where I figured the equator had been (prior to seeing your post) by just matching the colors of the earth on our own world, and the known climate of these areas. I figured that the equator should be higher, and more in line with Dorne and the red waste and slavers bay, as opposed to the summer isles. I was thinking that those climates with jungle and such more closely fit with south america and southern Africa on our own map, so that was my reasoning. Where it actually is for certain, I'm not sure we could be completely certain, but your guess is as good as mine.

Here is the new image I put together:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v122/tommyknoker/asoiafcompareworlds_zps0946c830.png

I still question why at that scale the wall would be so wide across. If it were truly 300 miles it should be only half of the distance shown in that scaled map, if that. If we assumed that the distance shown there was equal to 300 miles across, then that would mean everything would get vastly larger (similar to the original image.) I am okay with assuming that jon doesn't know what hes talking about with distance. Still though. That would be an incredibly long wall haha.

[Free Northman]

As I said, George never said from the Wall to Dorne was equivalent to South America.

[doubletee]

Regarding the edited map, the South America comparison includes the Lands Beyond the Wall. Furthermore, it is widely considered to refer to the length of South America only, not its actual surface area. This can easily be calculated based on the 300 mile length of the Wall.

This changes everything... haha. Godammit. I wish I knew that before I just wasted a bunch of time on that picture. I did know that it was based on the length of S.A and not overal surface, so I had shrunken it in equal ammounts from all corners to meet the length only. However if we take that entire length of S.A and make the lands beyong the wall of equal size to canada -still within the size of S.A- then yes, you are probably exactly right with the measurements working. That would take a lot more playing around.... for another time! haha

[doubletee]

This is super rough, and done in like 5 minutes, but it takes into account what you said about the lands beyond the wall fitting in with the size of south america along with the rest of westeros. The north of the wall part is rough, and the 7 kingdoms part could even be reduced further to allow the lands beyond the wall to achieve their size vertically, instead of in the horizontal fashion I used (to keep within the south american boundries).

Needless to say, this makes a lot more sense considering the distance of the wall, etc.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v122/tommyknoker/asoiafcompareworlds2_zps359731ff.png

[Borsabil]

ive read on the wiki its roughly the size of s. merica

Let me see, isn't the North supposed to be the same size as Canada? And the North makes up half the land area of Westeros, so logically Westeros would be double the size of Canada, or am I missing something? Saying all that I'm unclear if the North also includes the land area north of the wall, if it doesn't then the size of the continent would be substantially bigger....I think?

[Borsabil]

This is super rough, and done in like 5 minutes, but it takes into account what you said about the lands beyond the wall fitting in with the size of south america along with the rest of westeros. The north of the wall part is rough, and the 7 kingdoms part could even be reduced further to allow the lands beyond the wall to achieve their size vertically, instead of in the horizontal fashion I used (to keep within the south american boundries).

Needless to say, this makes a lot more sense considering the distance of the wall, etc.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v122/tommyknoker/asoiafcompareworlds2_zps359731ff.png

OK I'm confused. Maybe you're giving GRRM too much credit, I'm not sure he gave much thought to how big Westeros would be. A lot of his descriptive prose is a bit em...vague on the subject.

[doubletee]

Let me see, isn't the North supposed to be the same size as Canada? And the North makes up half the land area of Westeros, so logically Westeros would be double the size of Canada, or am I missing something? Saying all that I'm unclear if the North also includes the land area north of the wall, if it doesn't then the size of the continent would be substantially bigger....I think?

I know this thread seems pretty confusing and all over the place. I am experimenting with a lot of trial and error but I think Free Northman cleared a lot of that confusion up. George is on record to have said the the lands north of the wall, including the lands of always winter, is roughly the size of Canada. So that statement alone only refers to wildling territory and beyond. He's also been on record saying that westeros as a whole (thanks to northman for clearing that up) is equal to the size of South America. Which includes the lands beyong the wall. Being the size of canada, we suppose doesn't mean it is anything similar in shape. So out of the entire length of South America (as a relatable comparison) if we scale down the official maps, to fit all of the 7 kingdoms including the lands beyond the wall, and give those lands beyond their proper size as well, we end up with something probably similar to the smallest, most recent image I just posted above.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v122/tommyknoker/asoiafcompareworlds2_zps359731ff.png

This latest image also sorts out the issue I had with the walls length earlier in this topic, as it would now be reduced to more or less the size I originally outlined in the very first picture, which is actually, in real world terms- very close to 300 miles in length. Tomorrow I am going to attempt to use a similar scale in the latest image to layout the entire known world again, over top of our world map, and it will likely be much smaller than the image I did with the pink everywhere

Oh, and about giving him too much credit - This is not all souly dirrived from the books. From there we've only gleemed what the length of westeros and the wall are in miles. The rest of the info we are discussing has been confirmed by George after the fact in interviews or blog posts from the sounds of it.

[Borsabil]

I know this thread seems pretty confusing and all over the place. I am experimenting with a lot of trial and error but I think Free Northman cleared a lot of that confusion up. George is on record to have said the the lands north of the wall, including the lands of always winter, is roughly the size of Canada. So that statement alone only refers to wildling territory and beyond. He's also been on record saying that westeros as a whole (thanks to northman for clearing that up) is equal to the size of South America. Which includes the lands beyong the wall. Being the size of canada, we suppose doesn't mean it is anything similar in shape. So out of the entire length of South America (as a relatable comparison) if we scale down the official maps, to fit all of the 7 kingdoms including the lands beyond the wall, and give those lands beyond their proper size as well, we end up with something probably similar to the smallest, most recent image I just posted above.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v122/tommyknoker/asoiafcompareworlds2_zps359731ff.png

This latest image also sorts out the issue I had with the walls length earlier in this topic, as it would now be reduced to more or less the size I originally outlined in the very first picture, which is actually, in real world terms- very close to 300 miles in length. Tomorrow I am going to attempt to use a similar scale in the latest image to layout the entire known world again, over top of our world map, and it will likely be much smaller than the image I did with the pink everywhere

Oh, and about giving him too much credit - This is not all souly dirrived from the books. From there we've only gleemed what the length of westeros and the wall are in miles. The rest of the info we are discussing has been confirmed by George after the fact in interviews or blog posts from the sounds of it.

OK now I'm even more confused, I had thought GRRM had said the North is as big as Canada? But it was the land north of the wall, and yeah I'd heard the South America comparison, is that the geographical length or land area.

Canada is 3,696,000 sq miles in area. S. America is 6,880,000 sq miles in land area....so that would mean that the area north of the wall makes up more than half of the continent of Westeros?

I mean that would give Westeros a land area of around 3 million sq miles right? About the same size as Australia.

[doubletee]

OK now I'm even more confused, I had thought GRRM had said the North is as big as Canada? But it was the land north of the wall, and yeah I'd heard the South America comparison, is that the geographical length or land area.

Canada is 3,696,000 sq miles in area. S. America is 6,880,000 sq miles in land area....so that would mean that the area north of the wall makes up more than half of the continent of Westeros?

I mean that would give Westeros a land area of around 3 million sq miles right? About the same size as Australia.

Well, that could very well be true. I don't know this stuff as fact since the point of this thread is trying to understand it and get a better idea of the size of westeros. I don't have the exact quote right now so sombody else might want to confirm. It's possible he means that the north, as in the northern kingdom, combined with the north beyond the wall is equal to canada in size, rather than just north of the wall. In fact that is highly plausible, and I think I just assumed he had meant beyond the wall only.

I don't think those size comparisons have anything to do with exact surface area though. If we make the assumtion that he was reffering his canada refference to both the north kingdom, as well as beyond the wall, then we could potentially take a general outline of the shape of canada, and perhaps rotate it so it's vertical to fit with the asoiaf maps more. Then the rest of the length of South America would be from the riverlands to Dorne. Either way all of westeros, including the lands north of the wall should fith (based on length only) with the size of South America. It should then fit with the miles refferences given in the books as well, and more than likely you are right to be confused, and the canada refference reffers to all aspects of the north.

[The Black Prince]

Concerning the lack of 'features' such as lakes, rivers in Westeros, I think that there are more rivers and forests and other things. It's just that the only major elements are shown on the map. In almost every real world atlas of the world, when we look at a general view of the whole planet, we only see major rivers and other features being printed on it. In Europe for instance, you would only see rivers such as the Loire, Danube, Rhine, Vistula, etc. That doesn't mean there are no other smaller rivers. You usually get to see them on specific atlases about a specific region in detail. I think it's the same for the map of Westeros.

We also have to bear in mind that modern cartography techniques which we use today or even before that, were perhaps not available in Westeros. GRRM like to show his world through the knowledge of Maesters, so that's a limiting factor.

About the size of the cities in relation to the whole landmass, I think it's the same result as mentioned above. I don't have a vast knowledge about cartography and I saw that some maps dating from the Middle Ages were more complex but that doesn't mean Westeros lacks such things. It might be that we are just not shown them. I like the fact that GRRM is not very specific and meticulous in such things. In this case, we get to experience his world as his characters would.

If I hadn't time and was better with words, I might have said all I wanted to say but I hope you can see where I'm talking through.

ETA: Don't get me wrong, I also love to speculate a lot about this world but I find the limitations in achieving this fascinating too. :)

[Borsabil]

Well, that could very well be true. I don't know this stuff as fact since the point of this thread is trying to understand it and get a better idea of the size of westeros. I don't have the exact quote right now so sombody else might want to confirm. It's possible he means that the north, as in the northern kingdom, combined with the north beyond the wall is equal to canada in size, rather than just north of the wall. In fact that is highly plausible, and I think I just assumed he had meant beyond the wall only.

I don't think those size comparisons have anything to do with exact surface area though. If we make the assumtion that he was reffering his canada refference to both the north kingdom, as well as beyond the wall, then we could potentially take a general outline of the shape of canada, and perhaps rotate it so it's vertical to fit with the asoiaf maps more. Then the rest of the length of South America would be from the riverlands to Dorne. Either way all of westeros, including the lands north of the wall should fith (based on length only) with the size of South America. It should then fit with the miles refferences given in the books as well, and more than likely you are right to be confused, and the canada refference reffers to all aspects of the north.

Are there any plans for GRRM to bring out a proper scale map of Westeros? To me it would help the reader get a better understanding of how the stories develop. I really had no idea the North, for example, was so gigantic until well into reading the books, I think when someone, Stannis? Mentions it's half of Westeros.

A map of Essos would be good too, it's way way bigger than Westeros I assume, which would make it something like a supercontinent, Eurasia and Africa combined. Then there's the Ironisles, which are a personal bug bear of mine.