Aegon: Real or Fake?

[Teiresias]

Well if fAegon's a Blackfyre he's still a Targaryan since Daemon Blackfyre was legitimised by Aegon IV. So he'd be a dragon just as much as Dany is.

[Ser Lepus]

Damn, I knew this topic has been discussed to death but that list is humongous!

Almost all interesting topics have been already discussed to death in a bajizillion different threads. That's the reason I don't post much anymore, people keep discussing the same issues and the same arguments keep popping out again and again.

We need another book to refresh things...

[Veltigar]

Almost all interesting topics have been already discussed to death in a bajizillion different threads. That's the reason I don't post much anymore, people keep discussing the same issues and the same arguments keep popping out again and again.

We need another book to refresh things...

Sadly you are right. Let's hope tPatQ is good for some interesting discussions :D

[hecameburning]

He is real. Tyrion could tell and that is all I need for evidence. Also I find all the Blackfyre theories hilarious. The Blackfyres will have nothing big if anything in the next two books. The Blackfyres are for the Dunk and Egg novellas. All the people who have not read Dunk and Egg would be completely confused if a Blackfyre showed up and it would be cheap. Because from GOT to ADWD there is no real talk of Blackfyres because they are not pertinent to this saga.

[Draco_Dracul]

Well if fAegon's a Blackfyre he's still a Targaryan since Daemon Blackfyre was legitimised by Aegon IV. So he'd be a dragon just as much as Dany is.

And arguably his claim would be better than Dany's because of the way Targaryan succession was changed after the Dance of the Dragons.

My gut feeling is the faker he is the more successful he will be.

[Dead Wolf]

I've got one of those as well. Am I a Targaryen prince?

Maybe.

[Dead Wolf]

He is real. Tyrion could tell and that is all I need for evidence. Also I find all the Blackfyre theories hilarious. The Blackfyres will have nothing big if anything in the next two books. The Blackfyres are for the Dunk and Egg novellas. All the people who have not read Dunk and Egg would be completely confused if a Blackfyre showed up and it would be cheap. Because from GOT to ADWD there is no real talk of Blackfyres because they are not pertinent to this saga.

Well, if you wanted more evidence to support his legitimacy you could say the hat, use the quote "He died half a world away, if he died at all" or "If a king wanted me dead, might be I'd oblige him and pretend to be a corpse", the complete destruction of the baby's skull that evceryone believed was Aegon, and the fact that Dany is most likely barren and without an heir the Targaryens will die out.

[Peasant Rebel Leader]

Well if fAegon's a Blackfyre he's still a Targaryan since Daemon Blackfyre was legitimised by Aegon IV. So he'd be a dragon just as much as Dany is.

And arguably his claim would be better than Dany's because of the way Targaryan succession was changed after the Dance of the Dragons.

My gut feeling is the faker he is the more successful he will be.

Not sure if this discussion thread was a response to my post (it is directly after mine), but whether he's real or not has no real bearing on his political impact at all. Whether the people believe (in) him is though. And since there is no proof either way it really doesn't matter what he really is, Blackfire or Targaryen or totally unrelated.

[Draco_Dracul]

Not sure if this discussion thread was a response to my post (it is directly after mine), but whether he's real or not has no real bearing on his political impact at all. Whether the people believe (in) him is though. And since there is no proof either way it really doesn't matter what he really is, Blackfire or Targaryen or totally unrelated.

Oh, I agree. Even if Aegon himself discovers that he isn't really Aegon, I think that will be something he keeps under his hat. The more fake = more successful is an out of universe literary assessment rather than one based on in universe politics. A long term success of some boy that just happened to look like a Targaryen is the ultimate expression of power being a shadow on the wall (since not only would it be an illusion to trick those in Westeros, but also the Gold Company).

[Brienne for Queen]

Jon Connington believes he's the real deal, and HE seems trustworthy, at least. Too bad Aemon didn't live to meet him. Perhaps he'd know.

[Eogh]

He is real. Tyrion could tell and that is all I need for evidence. Also I find all the Blackfyre theories hilarious. The Blackfyres will have nothing big if anything in the next two books. The Blackfyres are for the Dunk and Egg novellas. All the people who have not read Dunk and Egg would be completely confused if a Blackfyre showed up and it would be cheap. Because from GOT to ADWD there is no real talk of Blackfyres because they are not pertinent to this saga.

The D&E novellas are still very much a part of the asoiaf universe, I don't think it's true that they are completely separate from events in the main story. There are plenty of very interesting and cryptic references to summerhall in asoiaf, something that is clearly very significant to the novellas. Besides, what would be the point of writing prequels if they weren't somehow connected/relevant to the main plot?

[WeaselPie]

(F)Aegon is a Targ... he's just not Aegon.

[Ramsay Gimp]

I've got one of those as well. Am I a Targaryen prince?

You and Huck Finn, apparently

[hecameburning]

The D&E novellas are still very much a part of the asoiaf universe, I don't think it's true that they are completely separate from events in the main story. There are plenty of very interesting and cryptic references to summerhall in asoiaf, something that is clearly very significant to the novellas. Besides, what would be the point of writing prequels if they weren't somehow connected/relevant to the main plot?

They are connected obviously. Just saying they are not necessary reading for these series. You would have to read the DandE novellas for the Blackfyre theories to be understandable and viable and I just do not think GRR would do that. That would be a bit much. If Aegon turned out to be a Blackfyre the people who have not read D&E would have no idea what the hell that means.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

They are connected obviously. Just saying they are not necessary reading for these series. You would have to read the DandE novellas for the Blackfyre theories to be understandable and viable and I just do not think GRR would do that. That would be a bit much. If Aegon turned out to be a Blackfyre the people who have not read D&E would have no idea what the hell that means.

You don't need the Blackfyre angle. "Illyrio's son by Serra (and Varys' nephew)" is good enough.

[adiman83]

This is an old(ish) topic but apparently nobody here mentioned the best piece of evidence that pretty much confirms that Young Griff (sorry, can't call him Aegon) is not Rhaegar's son.

The story says that Varys replaced Aegon with a tanner's son, bough with a flagon of Arbor gold. According to YG, that is the baby that Gregor Clegane killed and he got sent across the Narrow Sea to Jon Connington to be raised and prepared for a return to claim the throne. There is a pretty big problem in this story: there's no way for Varys to know in advance how Aegon was going to get killed. I don't think that Tywin ordered Clegane to smash the baby's head on a wall to make him unrecognizable. So if Gregor would've left Aegon's head intact, pretty much like Rhaenys died, the pisswater prince wouldn't have fooled anybody.

This indicates that the plot was made up by Varys and Illyrio AFTER the real Aegon died. And (F)Aegon is either a Blackfyre, Illyrio and Serra's son or a random child of appropriate age with Valyrian traits (very common in Essos).

This way we could even explain why Illyrio agreed to help Viserys and Danaerys, and secretly Young Griff, without asking anything in return and without a solid chance of any financial gain. Griff could be Illyrio's son and it would make sense why the cheesemonger would get involved in this plot, or Serra was a Blackfyre and, again. it would make sense why Illyrio supports this cause. If any of these is true, it means that Varys and Illyrio never planned for Viserys or Dany to claim the IT and they were nothing more than plot tools to help in the "greater scheme" of putting the fake Aegon on the throne.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Fake, to quote myself:

Some of the evidences:

Quaithe's prophecy.

and griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon.

The Golden Company=Blackfyre

Some contracts are writ in ink, and some in blood. I say no more

Beneath the gold, the bitter steel

Illyrio

When Maelys the Monstrous died upon the Stepstones, it was the end of the male line of House Blackfyre.

Black or red, a dragon is still a dragon

House of the Undying

A cloth dragon swayed on poles amidst a cheering crowd.

[Draco_Dracul]

House of the Undying

The House of the Undying one makes me think he isn't even a Blackfyre as a Blackfyre is a real dragon, not a false dragon (as the Blackfyres are a legitimate, though attained branch of the Targs).

[Jon's Queen Consort]

The House of the Undying one makes me think he isn't even a Blackfyre as a Blackfyre is a real dragon, not a false dragon (as the Blackfyres are a legitimate, though attained branch of the Targs).

True. But I always thought that it meaned clothed as a red dragon when he is a black.

[adiman83]

The House of the Undying one makes me think he isn't even a Blackfyre as a Blackfyre is a real dragon, not a false dragon (as the Blackfyres are a legitimate, though attained branch of the Targs).

The House of the undying vision doesn't necessarily mean a false dragon. The cloth dragon is obviously a metaphor for a "mummer's dragon". This could be interpreted as Aegon being Varys' dragon since Varys used to be a mummer.