Can the Others/White walkers cross bodies of water?

[Mr. James]

Hello everyone! Glad I can finally join this forum.

So over the last few months I have been making my way through the acclaimed Song of Ice and Fire books. There has been so much hype over these books because of the Game of Thrones TV show that, as a fantasy and science fiction fan, I felt that I needed to read them for myself before I sat down and watched the boxsets of the show. Well last month I finished the latest book A Dance with Dragons and I'm blown away. Okay I TOTALLY get it now Game of Thrones fans...these books are the shiznit and I fear that I have lost myself in Westeros and the lands across the Narrow Sea. Fantastic prose writing, gripping plot twists, personalities that I care for/ worry frantically about, and of course a masterful class in fantasy worldbuilding. Mad props to George R.R Martin. If there is a Harry Potter style midnight release for the next book at my local Barnes and Nobles I swear by the old gods and the new that all seven kinds of hell won't keep me from it. Okay that's out of the way, now for my question (which may reveals plot points about A Dance with Dragons so this is a warning.)

Has it ever been specifically stated whether or not the Others/White walkers are capable of crossing bodies of water like the Narrow Sea and Sunset Sea? I ask this because I want to gauge the threat level that they represent to areas outside of the the North. I think that we can all agree that if the Others somehow manage to beat the wall's magical defenses and then beat the combined forces of the Nightswatch/Free folk alliance then the north is in serious trouble. However I can't help but wonder about whether the Others are an actual threat to places outside of northern Westeros. Hypothetically let's assume that at some point in the Winds of Winter they cross the wall and start ravaging the north. Does it end there? Let's also assume that they are basically sapient in the same way that humans and children of the forest aka singers are sapient. Do they build boats, do they get their army of dead people to build boats for them? If so I can see them maybe taking the islands in the Bay of Seals and maybe Bear island in the west but that is as far as it goes. As soon as they run into a real naval force like the Iron fleet (much of which of course is in slaver's bay at the moment) or the ships of the Free Cities they are going to have problems. It seems to me that if they can indeed build boats and do attempt to engage in naval warfare then they may loose one of their biggest combat advantages. The Others and their wights are so dangerous because conventional melee and archery weapons are basically useless against them. However in a sea battle this is not as much of a problem. If the White Walkers tried to engage a fleet from, let's say one of the free cities (especially Braavos which is the farthest north and which uses ships instead of walls to protect itself) then nothing is stopping the humans from shooting fire arrows (maybe even green wildfire) from a distance. They could sink the Other's ships before they could use their giant spiders or wights or anything of the sort. So how are they a threat to those regions?

Also do we know for a fact the the White Walkers can survive in warmer regions? We know that wights are highly vulnerable to fire. I don't know if this is because of the heat of the fire or because the fire disrupts the magic that reanimates them (Mel believes that the White walkers and Wights are allied with the "Great Other" who fights against her god of fire) but I am curious about what would happen if they made it past the neck and into the south. Could they hypothetically make it all the way to Dorne or even the Summer Islands?

Anyway, I was really curious about the exact extent of their powers and how much of a threat the represent to the world outside of the north, Let me know what you think everyone and thanks for indulging me.

[Dance Layder]

I would think that their powers would wane with heat. So getting to Dorne would probably like be out of the question unless the winter gets THAT bad. Crossing the sea, I don't know about. You'd think they could just walk under it seeing as they're already dead, I don't see how it could pose a problem.

[Tetrarch42]

I have a feeling, not well supported, that they simply freeze bodies of water and march over them. Somehow I don't see the Others as sailors.

[DireMaker]

I can see the freeze/walk thing working. But maybe like in Pirates of the Carribean they just walk along the bottom of the ocean? Then there is no tell of where they come from and Bravos is boned.... We haven't really been given a whole lot of info on the Others, but GRRM has said we will see the LoAW in the upcoming book, so fingers crossed! And welcome to the forum! :cheers:

[Jon of the Dead]

Welcome to the forum, OP :cheers:

I think it's possible. There's this from aGoT:

Mormont was deaf to the edge in his voice. "The fisherfolk near Eastwatch have glimpsed white walkers on the shore."

And I think that the fact that Cotter Pyke was likely killed by the "dead things in the water" could be a foreshadowing of the Others/wights attacking the actual Pyke.

And I actually think that the whole origin of "What is dead may never die" is somehow related to the Ironborn's First Men heritage and has to do with a certain belief in the Others, just like the Starks' tradition of putting steel swords in the crypts to keep the vengeful spirits of the dead at bay.

So yeah, I could see the Others arriving at Pyke and the Damphair pretty much jizzing in his pants ("I told you, heathens, the dead rise harder and stronger!"), but I don't see them going as far as Dorne

[Mr. James]

The thing is this. If a competent naval commander (an Ironborn like Asha or maybe a ship captain defending Braavos) could just make sure to keep space between the Others and the human ships the battle seems to favor humans. Of course the war of the five kings may weaken Westeros so much that there might not be many lords left who could rally a counterattack.

[Matoro]

IF they could cross seas, they would've already done that.

My headcanon is that the Magic of the Wall extends into west and east, over the sea. A bit like Northern Circle. The Others can't cross it (except if the Wall goes down, magic goes with it) but wights can. We've already seen wights at Castle Black, in southern side of the Wall. Now when wight numbers are radiply rising (all those wildlings at Hardhome), odds are that wights will walk in seafloor. Currents might, however, take them to open sea, so they should walk along the coast.

[Eira Seren]

Depending on how deep the freeze, it could be possible. I have no idea though what it takes to freeze an ocean, though I know parts are already fairly cold. Also, I find it compelling that Cottor Pyke mentions "dead things in the water" near Hardhome. If cold conditions change the environs enough, it might not take a solid freeze.

[King of Winters]

In Heresy it was brought up that the white walkers don't break the snow when they walk because they can freeze the surface of the snow before touch it, so I think they could simply freeze the water and walk across it.

[Fallen Hero]

We've already seen wights at Castle Black, in southern side of the Wall.

I was also wondering about this and had visions of wights walking along the bottom of the ocean like the scene from Pirate of the Caribbean.

If the Wall does have magic and The Others cant pass, how will they get past the wall? The wights that were at Castle Black were brought over by Brothers of the Nights Watch so I think that explains how they got past the wall but what about the rest of them?

[Hannis]

they can very well walk over the lakes/rivers after they are frozen

[Abyssalix]

My theory is the white walkers are gathering an army of wights and sending them south of the wall, so they would bring it down and the white walkers can cross...

[Ahura Mazda]

I don't think so, and we will probably never know for certain because there isn't enough time to cover the invasion of esso or minor Islands.

The easiest way for grrm to bring wights on Islands is to let people die on the ships fleeing from the continent, and then rise again as wights to kill other people on board.

Walking under the ocean is unlikely. Dead things tend to float on water. Also wights are not very fast and strong, though under the ocean the currents are strong to resist.

Walking above the water on a surface of ice is feasible, but you can't frozen a sea which is rich of salt just by magic in few weeks or months. Our polar circles have formed with hundred of thousands years, that's why their current melting is a threat.

I don't see them building ships neither. They don't look particularly technology advanced as a culture, they may well don't know how to build or sail ships stolen to human beings. Besides, their numbers so far don't seem very high - except for wights - so it is likely they won't separate in smaller groups. Are there dozens of ww or hundreds or thousands or tens of thousands? At the moment they are IMHO in the order of less than hundred, therefore they will not split up to invade smaller Islands.

[A Duke]

Walking above the water on a surface of ice is feasible, but you can't frozen a sea which is rich of salt just by magic in few weeks or months. Our polar circles have formed with hundred of thousands years, that's why their current melting is a threat.

That's not really so. The amount of ice in the south and North cap varies greatly by season, so large ocean areas can freeze in a (relatively) short amount of time.

Sure the Arctics relatively low salinity has some effect, but not as big a difference as you seem to suggest.

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The narrow sea seems awfully narrow. Though I don't know how to gauge the distance. Considering that our winters are a few months long, yet in weteros they go on for years allows for much more extensive freezing. Not to mention ocean freezing is a positive feedback process.

[Black Crow]

Just a couple of observations, first as a point of order. Although Old Nan refers to the Others as "cold dead things", GRRM has categorically stated they are not dead:

'The Others are not dead. They are strange, beautiful… think, oh… the Sidhe made of ice, something like that… a different sort of life… inhuman, elegant, dangerous.'

Secondly, far from being a massive invading army there aren't many of them. The most we have ever seen together in one place are the six in the prologue and this is consistent with the other stories we have of them leading armies of the dead, as we saw at the Fist, rather than there being armies of white walkers.

Thirdly, if the Wall really was built to hold them back (and some of us take leave to doubt that) it seems a touch careless to build a Wall 700 feet high which any fool can walk around the ends...

[Tetrarch42]

Another possibility, when it grows cold enough (or perhaps when they make it cold enough) they might be able to just dissolve and reform in the blizzards they seem to be associated with. A storm can traverse a body of water better than any ship on Planetos.

[Nite's King]

Yes they can.

[Roose The Weddingcrasher]

I hope we will see Ghostships. At least one. With a crew of wights.

[Benjen of the Kingsguard]

I think that wights can't really swim, but they could survive in water and drift around for a pretty long time.

[EstEst]

Walking above the water on a surface of ice is feasible, but you can't frozen a sea which is rich of salt just by magic in few weeks or months. Our polar circles have formed with hundred of thousands years, that's why their current melting is a threat.

But you don't have to freeze it all through to the bottom, I guess just a thick ice crust would be enough. Anyway, magic works in surprising ways. And I like this better than the wights walking under the sea, since the last would be very unhygienic - their pieces would fall off due to the currents. Bad for ecology too. :D