Who, or what, is driving these wars?

[Skoboe]

Is there some over-arching entity that is bringing chaos to the world?

First up, we have Mance Rayder. Pretty much a nobody while with the NW...kicked out because his black cloak was repaired with red cloth. But he went on to unite a very diverse group of folks north of The Wall into an army.

Only the third time in 6,000 years.

Why now?

Then there was Robert's Rebellion. Said to be over a woman. Did Robert really love Lyanna? Or has he just convinced himself that he did. He can't remember what she looked like - it's only been 16 years. Yes, Mya was born before he met Lyanna, but Bella was born in the middle of the war, and Gendry just after. If he really loved Lyanna then how did this come about?

What was the real driver behind the rebellion?

Khal Drogo - well on the way to uniting the Dothraki...why? Is it just a coincidence that he would be doing this while things are unravelling on the other side of the world?

Euron Greyjoy. What drove a younger brother to sail into what are essentially no-go areas, and return after a few years ready to drag the Iron Fleet into a war?

And the Lannisters...even though I think Jaime and Cersei's relationship was a poorly kept secret, who planted the thought of Joffery, Myrcella and Tommen all being Jaime's children?

All seemingly disconnected events coinciding at the same time. Are the Maesters behind it all? The Red God? Who?

[Red Raven]

No one. Stuff happens.

[Mad Monkey]

That's what happens when you give a bunch of psychopaths a military and a large treasure trove of gold and the right/obligation to punish personal slights with mass destruction. A good 2/3rds of all the fighting in ASOIAF could be resolved if someone said, 'Hey, let's think about this for a sec...?" but it's much easier (for the lords) to shout, "BLOOD OF THE DRAGON" or "WINTER IS COMING" or "I'M PAYING MY DEBTS," while some nameless peasant gets stabbed in the throat for you.

That explains most of them. The rest are just crooks and bandits looking to make a quick score.

[complexphoenix]

Westeros is a feudal society with institutions that pretty much guarantee frequent wars. Most of these wars are minor... those who live at the time of ASOIAF happen to have the misfortune to live in the time of a big one.

[The Mountain That Flies]

What drives any war, or series of wars for that matter? People in positions of power deciding they want more power, or that their current power is under threat.

Pick any three random wars throughout history, and I promise you they can be traced to someone acting like a dick, either because they felt like the could or because the felt like they had to. Hell, even if the Western democracies many of us live in today, leaders can (and have) started wars for what appear to be insanely trivial reasons. Throw in the megalomania that comes with feudalism and/or the nomadic warring lifetsyle the wildlings and Dothraki live, and this kind of stuff would be a very regular occurrence all of Planetos.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

Queen of Thorns

this is her reaction to the realm bleeding:

http://images5.fanpop.com/image/photos/30200000/Taylor-Swift-Laughing-Gif-taylor-swift-30258989-500-245.gif

[RaidenSchumacher]

Are the Maesters behind it all? The Red God? Who?

I don't think anyone is behind it. So to speak.

But there is as ever some bad timing. The bad things in the north are coming and the fiery targaryens are usurped at the same time.

The Red God only really seems to resond to sacrifice, but he is waxing.

The chaos is just a coincidence.

[Skoboe]

No one. Stuff happens.

I would normally say this as well, but the fact that the Wildlings are waging war for only the third time in 6,000 years while half a world away someone is getting all Ghengis Khan and uniting the Dothraki tribes?

I know there's no point in writing a story where nothing happens, but these two events alone - regardless of what's happening in the seven kingdoms, seems a little too convenient.

[RaidenSchumacher]

I would normally say this as well, but the fact that the Wildlings are waging war for only the third time in 6,000 years while half a world away someone is getting all Ghengis Khan and uniting the Dothraki tribes?

I know there's no point in writing a story where nothing happens, but these two events alone - regardless of what's happening in the seven kingdoms, seems a little too convenient.

The wildlings are running from the north.

Who knows, maybe the white walkers are running too, from something even further north.

[The Mountain That Flies]

I would normally say this as well, but the fact that the Wildlings are waging war for only the third time in 6,000 years while half a world away someone is getting all Ghengis Khan and uniting the Dothraki tribes?

I know there's no point in writing a story where nothing happens, but these two events alone - regardless of what's happening in the seven kingdoms, seems a little too convenient.

It is not the third time the wildlings have waged war in 6,000 years. Yes, Mance is probably the most organized King-Beyond-the-Wall we've heard of, but the wildlings have been raiding into the North since there was a Wall. It's just escalated due to the Others. And we have way too little history of the Dothraki to say this kind of unifying has never happened before.

[Bloodraven's Lost Eye]

It's a world, a different world than ours, but just the same as ours in the way that shit just happens, granted it's magical shit though...

[Skoboe]

It is not the third time the wildlings have waged war in 6,000 years. Yes, Mance is probably the most organized King-Beyond-the-Wall we've heard of, but the wildlings have been raiding into the North since there was a Wall. It's just escalated due to the Others. And we have way too little history of the Dothraki to say this kind of unifying has never happened before.

Small raids, yes. Not a coordinated attack, and certainly not a mix of groups like Giants, Thenns, Wildlings etc.

Just a thought after reading another thread - in a slave-based economy, the Iron Bank would profit more from war than from business. Maybe it's in their best interest to maintain a certain level of instability?

[Bloodraven's Lost Eye]

Small raids, yes. Not a coordinated attack, and certainly not a mix of groups like Giants, Thenns, Wildlings etc.

Just a thought after reading another thread - in a slave-based economy, the Iron Bank would profit more from war than from business. Maybe it's in their best interest to maintain a certain level of instability?

hm, how would that work?

[The Mountain That Flies]

Small raids, yes. Not a coordinated attack, and certainly not a mix of groups like Giants, Thenns, Wildlings etc.

Just a thought after reading another thread - in a slave-based economy, the Iron Bank would profit more from war than from business. Maybe it's in their best interest to maintain a certain level of instability?

Braavos was founded by escaped slaves, and only a few hundred years ago at that. I highly doubt they're encouraging more slavery.

It's worth pointing out that no other King-Beyond-the-Wall would have had Mance's training and discipline, and would have had inter-tribe prejudices clouding heir ability to organize and win support. And again, he was able to win so many of them because of the threat of the Others.

[TheMysteriousOne]

LOL, no faction or entity is creating or driving these wars. GRRM has said that he likes to make his characters as human as possible.

Well, humans fight.

Violently, irrationally and frequently.

[Jon of the Dead]

Well, certainly stuff happens, but there are always instigators:

For Robert's Rebellion, there were the maesters who formed the alliance to destroy the Targs, and Varys, who turned Aerys into a paranoid wreck

For the Wot5K, Littlefinger set the ball rolling and other players picked it up along the way (like Euron, I figure, who returned to take advantage of the chaos)

Regarding Mance, I don't know, maybe the Others woke up for some reason we don't know yet, and that prompted Mance to gather his army

But ultimately, with so many players and schemers wars are bound to happen and last almost indefinetely

[Tywin Manderly]

That's what happens when you give a bunch of psychopaths a military and a large treasure trove of gold and the right/obligation to punish personal slights with mass destruction. A good 2/3rds of all the fighting in ASOIAF could be resolved if someone said, 'Hey, let's think about this for a sec...?" but it's much easier (for the lords) to shout, "BLOOD OF THE DRAGON" or "WINTER IS COMING" or "I'M PAYING MY DEBTS," while some nameless peasant gets stabbed in the throat for you.

That explains most of them. The rest are just crooks and bandits looking to make a quick score.

This! :agree:

Most of the nobility is worse scum than the average mafia capo or druglord.

[Tywin Manderly]

What drives any war, or series of wars for that matter? People in positions of power deciding they want more power, or that their current power is under threat.

Pick any three random wars throughout history, and I promise you they can be traced to someone acting like a dick, either because they felt like the could or because the felt like they had to. Hell, even if the Western democracies many of us live in today, leaders can (and have) started wars for what appear to be insanely trivial reasons. Throw in the megalomania that comes with feudalism and/or the nomadic warring lifetsyle the wildlings and Dothraki live, and this kind of stuff would be a very regular occurrence all of Planetos.

Indeed. Iraq War, anyone?

[RoamingRonin]

LOL, no faction or entity is creating or driving these wars. GRRM has said that he likes to make his characters as human as possible.

Well, humans fight.

Violently, irrationally and frequently.

Co-sign.

But I don't want to discount R'hllor and the Great Other. They have something to do with some of the conflicts going on, I'm sure of it. But all of the other "petty" wars (Dorne v. Highgarden, Starks v. Boltons, etc) are all because of the reasons you just listed.

[Addam_Marbrand]

To be fair, the downfall of the Valyrian Freehold changed a lot of things.

It caused the Dothraki to bestir themselves, it caused Aegon to conquer Westeros and unify it for the first time.

Its just a lot of things happening by coincidence in a time where the world is unstable due the downfall of the last great power.