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Who, or what, is driving these wars?


Skoboe

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nah. Things were fine in Westeros for the most part until someone decided it would be better to put horns on the king.

Most people and even the nobility were okay with Robert.

Not really wars have been there during the Targaryen Dynasty, before Aegon's conquest, Age of Heroes.

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i don't think it is really any driving force, it is just an interesting plot, but i can't help but think the same way sometimes. What is going on right no is the most important thing to happen in westerosi history, more important than anything we have heard about before (save maybe the doom)


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If there can be single driving forces behind wars ---



The present war in Westeros, the war of the diminishing kings -- Littlefinger. Unknowingly helped along by Varys, who wants the distraction. (If Robert Baratheon could become king, why not Littlefinger by reason of an advantageous marriage or two, and a few murders?)



In the North? With the Widlings (and suddenly reappearing) Others, the NW has always been at war.



In Danyland? It's a bit like the Italian or Greek city states there. I have always imagined The Dothraki as a version of the Tartars or Genghis Khan's group, always on the move, pillaging, etc. Now Dany has stirred it up with freeing the slaves.


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There isn't one reason or antagonising force for the wars we see in the books, there's dozens, arguably hundreds.



To quickly name a few; the innate instability of Medieval dynastic political systems, regionalism and proto nationalism in Westeros and Essos, the age old struggle for finite resources (especially food), the apocalyptic ice disaster pushing southwards in Westeros, the capriciousness and brutality of particular powerful individuals, the clash of slave societies against free labour, the spread of radical religious ideologies, the presence of supremely powerful living war machines, etc etc



It's the interplay of all these causes against each other, rather than some grand, unifying cause, that's making chaos.


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These wars didn't just happen "all of a sudden," they've always been going on. Westeros seemed to have at least one major war every generation. Prior to being united by Aegon the Conqueror, the Seven Kingdoms of Westeros were almost always in a state of war. There's no overarching cause other than human nature.


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I couldn't confidently answer this question until TWOW at the earliest, where we may get a better idea about many things, particularly the Others, their motives, and whether anyone benefits from them. Even so, I hope never to be able to answer with certainty.



It certainly seems incredibly unfortunate- just on the eve of the Long Night, Westeros (and Essos for that matter) are destroying themselves- coincidentally paving the way for the dead to rule, or for whoever rules the dead to rule.



Is everything that happens destined, are there players operating on a higher level we as readers are unaware of still, or is it simply a reflection of the myopic and self destructive nature of man when facing an apocalyptic crisis?



I think there are players operating on a higher level;



-Varys whispering, and meddling, playing with Aerys' madness certainly contributed to the downfall of the Targaryans- possibly for the benefit of the Blackfyres, possibly for some other greater purpose we don't know about. We can only assume.



-Littlefinger- obviously a chief architect in the war of 5 kings- presumably intended to advance his position for petty revenges/fragile ego...or is it?. I'm pretty sure Stannis did not get his epiphany regarding Cercei's children purely by chance. More likely, LF dropped very subtle hints a-la "Loras-in-the-Kingsguard" and Stannis suddenly felt very clever. Why after 12 years seeing Joffrey would he suddenly realise he looked nothing like Robert? He did not have as much additional information to go on, unlike LF who could see Robert's bastards being birthed with black hair in his whorehouses. Whether LF is serving a bigger picture we don't know about, or serving himself, which happens to coincide with a picture he is unaware of, I don't know.



Qyburn is certainly operating on a level I cannot fathom- and in synch with Bolton too, which is fascinating. both seem associated with cruelty, and death, and GRRM just keeps mentioning Roose's ice eyes and mask-like face. Something bigger definitely going on here. Which links to...



the House of Black and White. I don't believe the HOB&W are a purely reactionary religious organisation serving the whims of vengeful individuals and only ever looking on the small-scale- I think there is a bigger picture there Arya is being prevented from seeing. Why would a religion based on the balance of death and life be unconcerned about the imminent zombification of Westeros? Unless the living dead represents balance? :dunno:



It's a good question anyway, though some examples are easily explained. The entire North, above the wall were being hounded by the Others and facing imminent destruction. If they didn't get south of the wall, they were all going to die. I see Mance's army as reactionary to something that had already begun, though I could be wrong. Who knows, perhaps Val and Dalla create "The Others" as a glamour, and can manipulate the weather, and are using it as leverage to invade westeros, and Jon is giving them an open invite...


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  • 2 weeks later...

" George R. R. Martin has stated that the explanation for the world's unusual climate is magical in nature and will be revealed at the end of the series." - from the Wiki



Can't find the specific quote, but does lend weight to the theory that the events that are happening are being driven by two opposing forces - winter/summer...ice/fire


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