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Why Waymar Royce went willingly to the wall?


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#1 Señor de la Tormenta

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 08:44 PM

"Because he is a third son" is just not a valid explanation. There are dozens of third sons in westeros, and none of them goes to the freaking wall. Few nobles are in their ranks, most of them enlisted when they were old (Mormont) as a punishment (Ryyker, Thorne) or many years ago, as Mallister.
The only true example is Benjen Stark, but we know the special bond Starks got with the wall. Then not any third son goes to the wall...even from north; we ve no Karstarks, Umbers, Manderlys, all of them big houses with no place for all their sigils.

So Waymar Royce, as a single unique example in 1000 men is unlist mystirious. I feel there was an interesting story behind this, and I would love to read peoples ideas on the matter.

Edited by Señor de la Tormenta, 11 November 2013 - 08:46 PM.


#2 Ramsay Gimp

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 09:04 PM

Eh, I doubt  there is much of an "interesting story" about Waymar beyond what we got.

 

Being a third son of a noble House is still a valid motivation to take the black even if not every one of them does. The Royces have a strong first men heritage and are one of the few southern Houses to respect the Watch. It would make sense that a clearly assertive and proud personality like Waymar sought out an opportunity to lead rather than play third fiddle to his older brothers. 



#3 LovinRC

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 09:08 PM

Because GRRM needed a prologue.



#4 LovinRC

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 09:11 PM

Because GRRM needed a prologue.

Also, great way to show us WW's and give us someone important enough to go and look for beyond the wall.



#5 GallowsKnight

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 02:07 AM

Eh, I doubt  there is much of an "interesting story" about Waymar beyond what we got.
 
Being a third son of a noble House is still a valid motivation to take the black even if not every one of them does. The Royces have a strong first men heritage and are one of the few southern Houses to respect the Watch. It would make sense that a clearly assertive and proud personality like Waymar sought out an opportunity to lead rather than play third fiddle to his older brothers. 


This there's a good chance he'd make lord commander at some point.

#6 danm_999

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 02:31 AM

Well, it's Will's read on the situation that Waymar Royce is there because he's the third son, but you might want to consider that Waymar also seems pretty keen during the Prologue to have his ranging be a 'success', and to 'find' the Wildlings. Contrast that with Will, who is only there because he was caught poaching, or someone like Chett on the Great Ranging, guys who just want to get the fuck out of there, and you get closer to the answer as to why he went willingly.

 

Waymar is on the Wall because he wants to be on the Wall. He likes the idea of being a Ranger and tracking Wildlings, he's arrogant and he brings all the wrong sorts of equipment (his sword is all wrong for the deep forests, his destrier is all wrong for the Ranging). The idea of gallavanting around the Haunted Forest chasing savages likely appeals to him. It's why he doesn't listen to Gared or any of the other senior Rangers, because he already has an idea about how this job is supposed to go, and he's not going to let anyone stop him.

 

Because what other outlet would you have for that passion for a soldier's career at this point? At this time in Robert's reign, there's really no internal or external strife. No significant enemy to fight, besides I guess the Wildlings or the Clans of the Vale, and the latter there's no institution you can join dedicated to fighting them.

 

You could participate in a tourney as well I guess, when one happens, but we see plenty of scorn from the more grizzled sellswords and soldiers in the series about how fighting only in tourneys is usually for pussys.



#7 Minsc

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 02:46 AM

The only true example is Benjen Stark, but we know the special bond Starks got with the wall.

 

If anything Benjen's joining is more unusual, as how Waymar has his father still alive and two living brothers that can have children to secure House Royce before he is needed when he joins up in peacetime.

 

In contrast, Benjen ditches off to the Night's Watch after his father and oldest brother have both been killed and Ned only has a single heir that is only a toddler at best.  Furthermore, this is the immediate aftermath of a regime changing rebellion thus not ensuring that another conflict might not break out soon afterwards (like lets say Balon rebelling) which could cost Ned his life.



#8 The Lord's Kiss

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 02:53 AM

It is a valid point, but if you're willing to suspend disbelief a bit, because of the fact that no true heir of a high lord in his right mind would go straight to the Wall, and just go with the fact that GRRM has painted the Royce's as a house of old traditions, and their house words are "We Remember." Also, honor. Always honor.



#9 Raven in Winter

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 02:58 AM

It is a valid point, but if you're willing to suspend disbelief a bit, because of the fact that no true heir of a high lord in his right mind would go straight to the Wall, and just go with the fact that GRRM has painted the Royce's as a house of old traditions, and their house words are "We Remember." Also, honor. Always honor.

Yeah I would agree with ideas of honor. I'm sure, like Jon, he was appalled at what the NW had become and that's why he has that bad attitude. It's clear he has nothing but contempt for his new "brothers".

#10 Señor de la Tormenta

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 04:48 AM

Well, it's Will's read on the situation that Waymar Royce is there because he's the third son, but you might want to consider that Waymar also seems pretty keen during the Prologue to have his ranging be a 'success', and to 'find' the Wildlings. Contrast that with Will, who is only there because he was caught poaching, or someone like Chett on the Great Ranging, guys who just want to get the fuck out of there, and you get closer to the answer as to why he went willingly.
 
Waymar is on the Wall because he wants to be on the Wall. He likes the idea of being a Ranger and tracking Wildlings, he's arrogant and he brings all the wrong sorts of equipment (his sword is all wrong for the deep forests, his destrier is all wrong for the Ranging). The idea of gallavanting around the Haunted Forest chasing savages likely appeals to him. It's why he doesn't listen to Gared or any of the other senior Rangers, because he already has an idea about how this job is supposed to go, and he's not going to let anyone stop him.
 
Because what other outlet would you have for that passion for a soldier's career at this point? At this time in Robert's reign, there's really no internal or external strife. No significant enemy to fight, besides I guess the Wildlings or the Clans of the Vale, and the latter there's no institution you can join dedicated to fighting them.
 
You could participate in a tourney as well I guess, when one happens, but we see plenty of scorn from the more grizzled sellswords and soldiers in the series about how fighting only in tourneys is usually for pussys.

Well he can always become a sellsword or wait for robert to invade the summer ilands.

#11 The Fourth Head

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 05:33 AM

House Royce celebrates honour greatly. Furthermore, would Waymar Royce prefer to be some petty lordling subjugated to rule from his Nephews, or the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch? Note, Jon wanted to go to the wall too, before he know what it was really like. I'm pretty sure the same went for Waymar.



#12 Blutraven

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 05:41 AM

Jon wanted to go to the Wall.



#13 danm_999

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 06:03 AM

Well he can always become a sellsword or wait for robert to invade the summer ilands.

 

Not if he wants to keep his social status and goodies he can't. Remember he gets a big procession all the way up to the North with his daddy, and gets his fancy horse and armour and mole hair cloak? That all dissapears if he runs away from home and turns sellsword.

 

Also, the only person Robert ever talked about invading the Summer Islands with was Jalabhar Xho, and Cersei was pretty clear it was publically known it was never going to happen.


Edited by danm_999, 12 November 2013 - 06:04 AM.


#14 Ludd

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 06:15 AM

I think if you look at the Houses who send people willingly to the all they have shrunk which is why e NW is failing.

 

However there is a Mallister, there was a Royce etc.  There are just a FEW old families who regard the wall highly.  Sere Jeor went VOLUNTARILY to the wall



#15 mormont

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 06:15 AM

"Because he is a third son" is just not a valid explanation.


It pretty much is, I'm afraid.

Although it's much less common than it used to be, joining the Night's Watch is still a perfectly honourable choice for a noble, particularly a lower-ranked son with a martial inclination. There doesn't have to be a secret scandal or untold story to it.

Nor is Royce 'unique'. He's unusual, certainly, and this is why he's given command despite being young and inexperienced (though he's far from incompetent: he makes a couple of shrewd observations in the prologue). But there are still a number of noble recruits, not all of them old, whose reasons for joining the Watch are not specified (Jarman Buckwell, Othell Yarwyck, even Dolorous Edd fit this description). Royce stands out for his youth and for being from a notable family.

As for wanting to read his story: you already read it. What we have is all we'll get, I'm afraid. If the books say he joined because he was a third son looking for glory, then we have to conclude, that's his story.

#16 Bright Blue Eyes

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 06:48 AM

He is far from the only one.

 

Benjen Stark, Jon Snow, Middle Liddle, Dolorous Edd Tollett, Othell Yarwick, Bowen Marsh, Jarman Buckwell are all noble recruits joining during the last generation out of their free will in their youth.

Mallister and Stout are from an older generation, but still..

 

The number of Houses willing to send younger sons to the Watch is dwindling, but it's far from zero.



#17 Jon Pauletto

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 06:52 AM

He was a third son, so there wouldn't have much for him. So he joined the NW seeking glory. It's the same that happen to Robar Royce, he joined Renly's KG because he knows there was not much for him.



#18 Ross The Fiddler

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 08:18 PM

I think him being a third son is what makes the most sense.  Loras was a third son and joined the KG, and Robar (Waymar's older brother was a second son) joined Renly's guard.  Benjen was a third son as well and joined the watch.  I can't see anything else here but the fact that he joined because he has nothing to inherit.



#19 The Fallen

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 08:28 PM

` A bit off-topic, but how many sons is Bronze Yohn down to?

#20 Pod The Impaler

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 08:31 PM

Those houses with the blood of the First Men seem more likely to regard the Night's Watch as a noble calling, rather than a place for criminal and political exiles.

Jon Snow volunteered too, and also Jeor Mormont.