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I rather have Jon die than....

Petite Psycophant

By Petite Psycophant,
in General (ASoIaF)

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RoamingRonin Council Member

RoamingRonin

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Knife wounds aren't actually that fatal and even ones to the gut aren't usually immediately fatal. Famously, Caesar was stabbed numerous times, but only one wound was deemed fatal. Chances are that Jon is passing out at the end of ADWD and that, while his life isn't in immediate danger, there's a very real risk that he could be dying. I think a coma during which he enters a state like Bran was in is the more likely course than death followed by some form of resurrection.

That was how I interpreted the scene. Not at first, of course. I closed my book, texted a friend, ranted and raved but then I realized he might not be dead.

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OberynBlackfyre Council Member

OberynBlackfyre

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I actually am fearful that we WILL be seeing a lot more of the resurrections going around in Westeros simply because of what the Red Priests have been preaching.




"All those who fall in the war shall be reborn (or resurrected, not sure of exact wording)"



do not know if they mean reincarnation, however that seems iffy simply because they have the power of raising those who are dead with the "Last Kiss".......is R'Hllor building an army of fire wights that include Catelyn, Victarion, Beric....and now Jon????





what if Jaime is killed....but then gets life breathed back into him by Catelyn/Thoros??


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The Sleeper Council Member

The Sleeper

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ah...there are many real life example of people surviving stab wounds in those areas. Of resurrection though...

A knife perforating the abdomen without modern medical assistance? And let's not forget the simultaneous stabbing in the back which is likely to damage the spine and pierce the lung. Also, the way he passed out suggests dramatic blood loss. And of course, while he lies helpless on the ground he gets stabbed a fourth time. Yeah, I suppose it might have happened but it's so unlikely it would fall into the category of miracle.

And it isn't real life. It is a fantasy novel. I'm perfectly fine with whatever fantastical element helps the story and is consistent with the rules he set. Which wounds are survivable though by a normal human, is not his rules to set.

Knife wounds aren't actually that fatal and even ones to the gut aren't usually immediately fatal. Famously, Caesar was stabbed numerous times, but only one wound was deemed fatal. Chances are that Jon is passing out at the end of ADWD and that, while his life isn't in immediate danger, there's a very real risk that he could be dying. I think a coma during which he enters a state like Bran was in is the more likely course than death followed by some form of resurrection.

Depends where they hit. Gut wounds might not be immediately fatal but they are definitely fatal and there has been nothing in the story that indicates they can perform the kind of surgery that is necessary to repair them, even if their was a qualified maester around, which there isn't.

This is the point where I value consistency. Has Maritn said that resurection is possible. Yes, he has. Has he stated that humans can survive getting stabbed in the kidney or that the maesters can repair it? No, he hasn't.

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Addam of Hull Council Member

Addam of Hull

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A knife perforating the abdomen without modern medical assistance? And let's not forget the simultaneous stabbing in the back which is likely to damage the spine and pierce the lung. Also, the way he passed out suggests dramatic blood loss. And of course, while he lies helpless on the ground he gets stabbed a fourth time. Yeah, I suppose it might have happened but it's so unlikely it would fall into the category of miracle.

And it isn't real life. It is a fantasy novel. I'm perfectly fine with whatever fantastical element helps the story and is consistent with the rules he set. Which wounds are survivable though by a normal human, is not his rules to set.

Depends where they hit. Gut wounds might not be immediately fatal but they are definitely fatal and there has been nothing in the story that indicates they can perform the kind of surgery that is necessary to repair them, even if their was a qualified maester around, which there isn't.

This is the point where I value consistency. Has Maritn said that resurection is possible. Yes, he has. Has he stated that humans can survive getting stabbed in the kidney or that the maesters can repair it? No, he hasn't.

No, I agree with you that a Maester wouldn't be able to heal that kind of wound, but we know that it's possible to use magic to accomplish that end which is more what I think will happen. To be specific, Jon will be dying, but not dead, and someone will use magic to heal him (likely Mel) during which time he enters a dream state similar to Bran's during AGOT where he gains his boon.

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Florina Laufeyson Council Member

Florina Laufeyson

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Excuse me as i summon my inner Apple Martini.



Ahem. Im seriously going to cackle like a hyena if Jon walks out of his own funeral pyre. Especially at the cost of Theon's life. And if Mel has nothing to do with said walking out of funeral pyre.




No. Not just cackle, but roll on the floor uncontrollably while fist pumping and going "WINNER!"



:cool4:


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Sullen Council Member

Sullen

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Ahem. Im seriously going to cackle like a hyena if Jon walks out of his own funeral pyre. Especially at the cost of Theon's life. And if Mel has nothing to do with said walking out of funeral pyre.

If this ever happens, I'm burning my books.

Enjoy the Schadenfreude as much as you want, I'm burning my damned books.

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Jon of the Dead Council Member

Jon of the Dead

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If this ever happens, I'm burning my books.

Enjoy the Schadenfreude as much as you want, I'm burning my damned books.

You're not alone. I'll burn my books too if that shit happens.

If GRRM wants his little Special Snowflake to come back to life and be King in the Bore, fine by me. But sacrificing an infinetely more interesting, complex, and unique character to make that happen it's where I cross the line.

Regarding the OP, I hope he's just in a coma or something, because there's only so much resurrection crap I can stomach

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Petite Psycophant Hedge Knight

Petite Psycophant

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I actually am fearful that we WILL be seeing a lot more of the resurrections going around in Westeros simply because of what the Red Priests have been preaching.

"All those who fall in the war shall be reborn (or resurrected, not sure of exact wording)"

do not know if they mean reincarnation, however that seems iffy simply because they have the power of raising those who are dead with the "Last Kiss".......is R'Hllor building an army of fire wights that include Catelyn, Victarion, Beric....and now Jon????

what if Jaime is killed....but then gets life breathed back into him by Catelyn/Thoros??

Beric is dead. The true death as they say in True Blood. That's why Cat is alive cause Beric passed his immortalness to her.

Also, seven hells! An army of fire wights?! I'd be very disappointed. I much rather see an army of the Stone Men spreading greyscale all around.

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The Wolves Council Member

The Wolves

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Ahem. Im seriously going to cackle like a hyena if Jon walks out of his own funeral pyre. Especially at the cost of Theon's life. And if Mel has nothing to do with said walking out of funeral pyre.

:cool4:

This would be gross. Theon is a worthless child murdering scum who needs to hurry up and die.

Jon deserves better than for such a Gollum like pathetic character to be in his story. Theon has nothing to do with the old gods and or Jon. Let Stannis kill him already and be done, it's nothing there but a maimed child murderer.

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Tkhal Freerider

Tkhal

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I agree with this post for the most part. My first two thoughts after that chapter were: 1) No way he's dead but 2) He better not be revived by the Lord of Light. What I am hoping is that Ghost/Tormund/Melisandre saves Jon, but it is more or less a secret that he lives. I want Jon to heal in secret and come back in a big way, hopefully heading down to Winterfell with a wildling army and Tormund as his sworn shield. Jon for King in the North? Could be sick, I know I'd vote for him.



The only way I would be ok with Jon being revived by the Lord of Light is if we see some kind of new magic rather than the Beric/Catelyn treatment which I think is crude. I get the feeling Melisandre stayed at the wall for a reason, and she has some new power she wants to exercise. If she could revive him in some other way as Azor Ahai reborn I could be OK with that. But if she uses the same magic as Thoros which brings them back 3/4 of the way until they begin fading and die more and more times.



Going off what you were saying about cop outs here is my rank of most preferred to least preferred options:



1. Jon is saved by Tormund/Melisandre, healed in secret and now has bigger and better plans


2. Jon is saved by Ghost, healed in secret by Melisandre and now has bigger and better plans


3. Jon is saved by Mance or Bran somehow


4. Jon is revived into Azor Ahai by Melisandre with some new spell we haven't seen before


5. Jon is dead


6. Jon lives the rest of his days as Ghost


7. I lose my job, my girlfriend dumps me, and I get paralyzed from the waste down in a car accident with a Prius


8. Jon is revived into UnJon



Also for all of you Theon haters, I hate him as well but he isn't going to die any time soon unless his death serves some big purpose. He has already had his comeuppance and his death would just be kind of whatever at this point.


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Sullen Council Member

Sullen

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He has, I just don't care about his suffering. And he doesn't need to be sacrificed for Jon or anybody he just needs to hurry up and die, he's boring and gross.

Theon?

Boring?!

Umph... I wouldn't expect anything more, coming from a Jon fan...

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