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How Difficult to Take Lannisport?


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#1 Ramsay Gimp

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 11:27 PM

Lannisport is the 3rd largest city in Westeros, located in the shadow of Casterly Rock. It has a well-trained and disciplined City Watch, though I don't believe we ever get the numbers for this force. During the Greyjoy Rebellion the Iron Fleet destroyed Tywin's fleet at anchor, but no attempt was made to sack the city itself. Robb Stark also avoided/ignored the city while he was ravaging the West. 

 

How difficult would it be for an invader to take the city? How large a host would be necessary? Would a fleet be required? I have my own thoughts but I'd like to hear others' first


Edited by Ramsay Gimp, 14 November 2013 - 11:27 PM.


#2 MotherAnduin

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 11:34 PM

All we can make are uneducated guesses. We don't have enough information. All we know that it is more than six thousand.

#3 Gneisenau

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 12:11 AM

Robb did kill Steffon Lannister, but I don't think he completely destroyed the army Steffon was gathering, so there were still lots of armed men in the Westerlands at the time.



#4 jarl the climber

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 12:14 AM

Balon told Theon that they could take Lannisport but that they would not be able to hold it. 



#5 Mr Bell

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 12:19 AM

I'd say it's probably pretty hard to take. Apparently the City Watch are quite a force to behold. CR looms overhead as well, which might mean LP is hard to keep if a force did take it.



#6 Jon of the Dead

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 12:28 AM

I think Robb and Balon could have done it working together. If the northmen alone pretty much destroyed Steffon's forces, the ironborn fighting alongside them would have been enough to take the city.

 

And if Renly or Stannis had kept Tywin busy in the Riverlands, as Cat hoped, then they might've been able to hold it for quite some time, I think



#7 Hodor?

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 12:30 AM

I would think Lannisport and Casterly Rock would have to be taken together if you wanted to hang on to Lannisport.  Otherwise all kinds of nastiness could be rained down on you from the Rock.



#8 Ours if the Fury

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 12:32 AM

Around 60,000 men and seige equipment and to make the siege quicker you would probably need around 50 ships more if able 



#9 Lonin

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 12:56 AM

Lannisport is a walled city, defended by a well trained City Watch.  It would be difficult to take.  Medieval sieges of Cities is difficult and costly.  If taking Lannisport means you win the war - its probably worth the effort.



#10 Pod The Impaler

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 01:18 AM

Lannisport is the 3rd largest city in Westeros, located in the shadow of Casterly Rock. It has a well-trained and disciplined City Watch, though I don't believe we ever get the numbers for this force. During the Greyjoy Rebellion the Iron Fleet destroyed Tywin's fleet at anchor, but no attempt was made to sack the city itself. Robb Stark also avoided/ignored the city while he was ravaging the West. 

 

How difficult would it be for an invader to take the city? How large a host would be necessary? Would a fleet be required? I have my own thoughts but I'd like to hear others' first

 

 

Lannisport would be easy, but Casterly Rock would be quite tough. It sounds like the Rock protects the city by being nearby, but it does not sound like it encompasses it as the walls of King's Landing do. Sounds more like the city is outside the fortress, so for example if the Ironborn came to sack it, they could sack Lannisport, but not take Casterly Rock without a long and costly siege. The Ironborn do not generally believe in siege warfare, so perhaps the whole defensive strategy is one where the elite remain safe in their fortress while the commoners get mangled and the attackers eventually give up wanting to take the territory and just leave with some loot. In any case, you may be able to sack the city but could never hope to keep it unless you took the fortress.



#11 Raven in Winter

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 01:47 AM

Balon told Theon that they could take Lannisport but that they would not be able to hold it. 

Hmmm... being able to take a place but not being able to hold it is a mistake Theon ended up making any way, that's kind of funny! Thanks for mentioning that.
Imagine the wealth Robb could have gained if he had taken Lannisport! I bet it was a very tempting target but Robb realized it would have cost him dearly.

Edited by Raven in Winter, 15 November 2013 - 01:49 AM.


#12 BondJamesBond

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 01:49 AM

I'd bet Lannisport is really overrated as a defensive stronghold. City watch are like a police force used to keeping in line unruly peasants. In a fight versus an army with a commander capable of organizing the storming of a city, I think the city watch would break like the gold cloaks at KL.

Casterly Rock can't do much to help lannisport once the city is taken. I'd imagine the bulk of the fighters (what's left of them after TWOFK) would augment the CW in the defense of the city. Once lannisport is taken, the occupying army needs to stay inside the city to avoid arrows from CR and then wait them out of develop siege weapons capable of hurling large stones.

#13 Bright Blue Eyes

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 06:50 AM

Quite easy, based on the defensive structures. Cities are in no way comparable to castles there. The problem is the manpower a city could put on the walls against a direct attack. Starving them for a time is vastly easier - but you'd need a fleet for that. Furthermore, you'd need a fleet to threaten the seaside to keep the defenders from concentrating their forces at the landside on any assault.

 

Let's call it 30 warships and 10,000 soldiers landside.



#14 Free Northman

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 06:53 AM

I would have liked if Robb could have razed Lannisport to the ground, even if he could not hold it.

 

Send 200,000 refugees streaming into the Lannister countryside. That would set the cat amongst the pigeons nicely.



#15 Ramsay Gimp

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 06:53 PM

Quite easy, based on the defensive structures. Cities are in no way comparable to castles there. The problem is the manpower a city could put on the walls against a direct attack. Starving them for a time is vastly easier - but you'd need a fleet for that. Furthermore, you'd need a fleet to threaten the seaside to keep the defenders from concentrating their forces at the landside on any assault.

 

Let's call it 30 warships and 10,000 soldiers landside.

 

So it was never in the realm of possibility for Robb to take the city?



#16 Gurkhal

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 07:03 PM

 

So it was never in the realm of possibility for Robb to take the city?

 

No it wasn't and Robb states it himself to Edmure if I recall correctly.



#17 Pod The Impaler

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 08:24 PM

 

No it wasn't and Robb states it himself to Edmure if I recall correctly.

 

 

If Theon had successfully convinced Balon to be Robb's ally, this is likely what would have happened. Lannisport and other key coastal towns of the Westerlands would have been ravaged by the fleet Balon had assembled, and all those Ironborn invading would have cost Tywin the war. Casterly Rock could have survived a long siege with few men, but with almost all their defenders gone, Lannisport and other major towns would be sacked without mercy. I do not think Robb would have considered taking and holding the Lannister's main city capital important, but it would have forced Tywin into a losing position overall.



#18 The Fallen

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 08:43 PM

` If Stannis came close to taking King's Landing I don't see why Lannisport couldn't be taken. I also imagine that you could employ a similar strategy.

#19 Minstral

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 10:24 PM

Do we have confirmation that the city was walled?

 

The one time that we have seen the city threatened was during Robb's campaign, which was comprised of a mobile force that lacked proper siege equipment. Moreover, the one city we do see assaulted in the series is KL which was able to put several thousand on the walls and river with questionable morale. Same principles should therefore apply to both scenarios, that that you would need a large numerical advantage as well as the resources and time to invest in a siege so . Its a difficult siege to take by assault which would make starving them out the best option.

 

` If Stannis came close to taking King's Landing I don't see why Lannisport couldn't be taken. I also imagine that you could employ a similar strategy.

Stannis took a risk when assaulting the city, and a big one at that. If Cersei did not interfere as she did then Stannis's host could have suffered extreme casualties. Usually a commander would not wish to take such a risk.



#20 Acolyte of Radmure

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 10:45 PM

Do we know if the city is walled or not as well? This question is highly dependant on the fortifications of the city. 

Holding it is probably a greater issue than taking it. 

The garrison of the rock presents an immediate threat and a significant thorn in the side of ayn force trying to hold the city against a relief force. 

Really it depends on the context of the attack. 

Did they attack from the sea?
Did they march through the Westerlands?
Is the Lannister fleet destroyed or driven away?
What are the dispositions of the western lords?
and so on and so forth