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Jon Snow's Fate - Ghost / Ice Cell


yolkboy

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BLUE ROSE IN ICE

Jon is stabbed at the end of aDwD, his fate is uncertain - but there might be clues to help explain what happened to him. Here, the possibility that Jon's mind has entered Ghost to begin his 'second life', whilst his body is preserved in an ice cell - will be examined. A suggestion for how Jon might re-enter his body, and how this experience could change him, will be offered.

JON'S STABBING

After being stabbed, Jon's last word was 'Ghost' as he succumbed, unable to draw his sword. The chapter ends with this...

"He never felt the fourth knife. Only the cold…"

Not feeling the fourth knife is mysterious, because Jon goes on to feel cold. One idea is that Jon is paralyzed (or comatose), and that's why he can neither draw his sword nor feel the fourth knife. This is flawed for two reasons. First, Jon couldn't draw his sword because his burnt hand had grown stiff and clumsy, foreshadowed in aCoK...

"If he let his sword hand stiffen and grow clumsy, it well might be the end of him, he knew. A man needed his sword"

The stabbing...

"Jon reached for Longclaw, but his fingers had grown stiff and clumsy. Somehow he could not seem to get the sword free of its scabbard."

Also, Jon didn't feel the fourth knife, but went on to feel cold - showing his pain receptors were working and so should feel the knife. You also don't feel cold in a coma.

Another explanation for Jon not feeling the knife but sensing cold, is because he's 'bleeding out'. We see a POV bleed out, almost next to Jon's chapter. Kevan feels cold, but still registers physical pain.

"Kevan was cold as ice, and every labored breath sent a fresh stab of pain through him"

Notice the word 'stab' is used, which takes the reader back to Jon. He can either feel the stabbing and feel the cold, or feel neither. So there must be another explanation for Jon's experience. There might be several, but none with as much foreshadowing and textual support as the following...

In his prologue, we learn that when Varamyr dies, the sensation is very cold as he enters his wolf for 'second life'...

"True death came suddenly; he felt a shock of cold, as if he had been plunged into the icy waters of a frozen lake."

This not only takes us back to what Jon was feeling, but also to Mel's foretelling of Jon being stabbed. There's a similar emphasis on ice, frozen and cold in a single sentence.

Ice, I see, and daggers in the dark. Blood frozen red and hard, and naked steel. It was very cold.

Considering that Jon's last word was 'Ghost', he was clearly reaching out, perhaps trying to warg. So maybe Jon didn't feel the fourth knife because he wasn't in his body anymore, and the cold sensation was the process of his body dying whilst entering his second life.

Prologues seem designed to give us information which is revelatory and important later in the story. Varamyr gives us unique information about the process and rules of the second life. It seems likely that this information is placed for a greater reason than Varamyr.


Jon ponders the nature of second life twice (regarding Bran/Rickon);

could some part of him live on in his wolf?”. (SoS)

...

He wondered if some part of his dead brothers lived on inside their wolves.” (aDwD soon after prologue)

As we know, Jon is often alluded to as 'a king'. So, this could be foreshadowing from Varamyr;

Mance should have let me take the direwolf (Ghost). There would be a second life worthy of a king."

Then there's Mel's vision of Jon...

“she heard the whispered name Jon Snow....Now he was a man, now a wolf, now a man again. But the skulls were here as well, the skulls were all around him.”

This might seem like normal warging, but notice the skulls, indicating this is related to Jon's death (Mel directly links this to the stabbing). And you have a man becoming a wolf, then a man again. This could mean second life, and resurrection too. But if his mind is temporarily in Ghost, what will happen to his body?

THE ICE CELLS

Ice cells are “carved from the base of the Wall”. Jon became acquainted with them in aSoS, when he was imprisoned, offpage. In aDwD, two bodies are put inside, to see if they become wights. The last thing Jon does before reading the pink letter, which subsequently leads to his stabbing, is visit the cells and give orders regarding their upkeep. This is revealing as to what's happening at the cells, and the timing of the scene indicates to the reader that the cells should not be forgotten, that they will be relevant. This is the biggest look at the cells in the books.

With the recent heavy snow, the ice cells are becoming buried. The snow outside them is so thick, they need to be dug out regularly. Jon removes all living prisoners because it's likely that they will “smother”, ie snow is covering the door. Jon says the corpses will be “entombed” inside. It's likely Jon's order to keep the cells dug out will be forgotten in the aftermath of his stabbing.

Whatever is put in those cells will at the least freeze solid, and significantly will become 'part' of the Wall itself, with the snow sealing off the entrance. If snow finds its way inside, (the door hinges are damaged), or the Wall 'takes back' what is carved from it (the wall “seems to grow” back) anything within could be encased in solid ice. There might be foreshadowing of someone becoming encased in the Wall with the legend of Arson Iceaxe, who tunnelled halfway through until someone sealed him inside. Notice 'Arson Iceaxe' sneakily nods to both ice & fire, a theme central to Jon (Stark-Targaryen). Jon himself has already slept “encased in a fine glaze of ice”, in a NW tent.

The NW and wildlings burn bodies to prevent wights. Perhaps the key figure will be the persuasive Melisandre, who R'hllored Dragonstone, slept with a King with his wife's blessing & made Ghost side with her over Jon. She senses Jon is 'special' and might even realise he's inside Ghost. She could use her influence to keep the body in an ice cell to preserve him for the time being.

As we know from Aemon, "cold preserves", and perhaps this was a hint, regarding Jon's immediate fate. This notion is emphasized more directly by the NW stewards, who "discovered that food and meat kept longer in the icy storerooms carved from the base of the Wall" (same wording as ice cells).

The only other scene which looks at the cells in any detail is when Jon pays a visit to Cregan Karstark - this foreshadows the entire 'stabbing/second life/ice cell' scenario described. First Mel tells him “keep your wolf beside you”, and he doesn't, as with the stabbing. Next Jon goes to the cell...

"Rusted hinges screamed like damned souls when Wick Whittlestick yanked the door wide enough for Jon to slip through.... Jon Snow could see his own reflection dimly inside the icy walls."

This brief moment is the ONLY time we see Jon in the ice cells described on-page, and he sees HIMSELF in there. Ice isn't a very reflective surface, and there's no other instance, other than sunlight, of a person or shape being mirrored by the Wall. The fact that it's Wick, the first person to stab Jon, opening the ice cell door for Jon is fitting. And “slip” is associated with warging - Varamyr uses it four times in his prologue alone, in this context. There's also a “damned souls” simile as Jon enters the cell, then he sees himself in there.

We also have this as foreshadowing from Jon's ice cell imprisonment in aSoS...

You will die in here, Lord Snow” Ser Alliser had said just before he closed the heavy wooden door, and Jon had believed it.

Adding to the notion Jon might get sealed or encased 'in' the Wall, there's several occasions when Jon is in the 'tunnel', and he senses a strange pressure from the Wall. Jon feels “the great weight of all that ice pressing down on him”, “a strange relief” when he emerges on another occasion, from air like “a tomb”. It's “colder by the Wall, beneath those tons of ice” in one Jon chapter, and it seems “as if it were about to crush you", in another.

Finally, like the example of Arson Iceaxe, there's another allusion to ice & fire inside the Wall, a theme central to Jon.

"the ice pressed close around them, and he could feel the cold seeping into his bones, the weight of the wall above his head. It felt like walking down the gullet of an ice dragon."

As a Stark-Targaryen, Jon is an 'ice dragon' himself. Again, Jon feels the pressure & weight of the surrounding Wall, for the fifth time.

BLUE FLOWER IN A CHINK OF ICE

In the HotU, Dany sees this vision...

"A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness...."

The blue flower is Jon. A 'chink' is defined as a small opening. The ice cells are tiny, especially on the scale of a 700ft Wall. So the 'chink' is an ice cell. Jon, in an ice cell.

The flower is growing - changing, becoming. Trapped in his wolf, his mind is permanently mixing with Ghost's (from the Varamyr prologue - I'll discuss later). Their personalities are combining – Jon is changing, growing. 'Sweetness' can have unexpected negative connotations, as explored here. Varamyr happens to describe second life as “sweet”.

BRAN'S DREAM

This is Bran's coma dream - I've written here that the presence of Robert Strong indicates Bran was seeing glimpses of the future, after seeing the present.

"Finally he looked north. He saw the Wall shining like blue crystal, and his bastard brother Jon sleeping alone in a cold bed, his skin growing pale and hard as the memory of all warmth fled from him."

This initially seemed like Jon's early days in the NW. But the wording “his skin growing pale” seems like death, growing “hard” seems like freezing, and it's in a very cold & lonely place - like an ice cell. The Wall only shines like crystal in the daytime - ie Jon wouldn't be asleep in bed if this was him joining the NW. From those early days, we have the line;

In a few years he would forget what it felt like to be warm”.

This can be read two ways. Is this Grrm telling us that in a few years time Jon will be put in an ice cell? Well it's been a few years. Notice the link to Bran's dream (in red). Both passages fit the notion of Jon in an ice cell.

The possibility that Jon's mind has entered second life, with his body being preserved in an ice cell seems textually supported by foreshadowing, fits with dreams, visions and has storytelling logic. It also has parallels with resurrection mythology such as Persephone and Jonah.

In Part 2, I'll explore; what might happen to Jon's mind trapped in Ghost, and how he might be returned to his body. I will post soon. Added below.

Yolkboy theories...

www.tearsofblood.org


;) Help from – Lady Gwynhyfvar, The Dornishman's Widow, Dr. Pepper

;) Research ally – The 6th Stark

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JON'S SECOND LIFE

In part 1, I argued that with his body being preserved, Jon's mind might be residing in Ghost – experiencing 'second life'. The Varamyr prologue gave us some relevant information about second life, and it seemed placed for a reason. So what would happen to Jon, if resurrected after experiencing second life?

The longer a person's mind resides in his wolf, the beast “becomes a little less a warg, a little more a wolf”. This means an extended stay inside Ghost will see their minds and personalities combining permanently. Eventually the process of second life turns a warg into “a true wolf”. If Jon's mind is returned to his body in time, his personality would be part-wolf. He would probably be more feral, instinctive and aggressive – he and Ghost would be mixed and as one. This change in him might be necessary if he's to confront a supernatural foe, and so, serves the story. In aDwD we see Jon feeling more like a wolf, perhaps serving as a hint...

"No, he thought. I am a man, not a wolf"
"I am not a wolf, he thought. “And how would I do that?”
"Of late, Jon Snow sometimes felt as if he and the direwolf were one, even awake."

"Ghost is more alive than I am"

So, Jon might awaken as more of a 'badass' than he was before. “Waking the dragon” is a Targaryen phrase used to describe aggression, and could have meaning here. His mind will never have died, so he won't be 'undead' like Catelyn – he will be unique in the story – part beast. Perhaps his body having being frozen for so long will give him a tolerance to coldness, which again would serve his role if he is to fight the Others – their collective 'cold mist' froze Varamyr's hand to the floor from a long distance.

The notion of Jon returning from his second life presents a problem, as once his body is dead, a warg is trapped inside his beast forever – as we learned in the Varamyr chapter. So how would his mind be transferred back to his body?

Well, there might actually be a precedent here. Back in aGoT, we saw Mirri Maz Duur attempt a ritual that somehow resembled warging. “Strength of the beast, go into the man.”, she chanted as she seemed to try to transfer life-force from a stallion into Drogo. The Khal was left in a vegetated state. However, on closer inspection, perhaps this was a 'forced-warg' - or something similar. Look at this description of Drogo the next day – doesn't he seem slightly – horsey?

"He will go where you lead him, but no farther. He will eat if you put food in his mouth, drink if you dribble water on his lips"

Did Mirri transfer the stallions mind into Drogo? At the very least, this ritual does have some warg qualities to it. Interestingly, it's made clear that Mirri learned the spells in Asshai ...

“I learned the way in Asshai and paid dear for the lesson”

Melisandre has spent considerable time in Asshai, studying magic, so might know a similar trick. Mel also talks of paying a price for her magic, “how much it had cost her”. She also uses the “only death can pay for life” line in SoS, Mirri's bloodmagic mantra. Mirri used a bronze blade to cut the throat of the stallion, “covered with ancient glyphs”. The glyphs were very likely to be first men runes, for Dany not to recognize them – linking Mirri's blade to sacrificial rituals made in the North. In short, Mel might be able to find one of these, if she doesn't already own one. Before Mirri's ritual, Dany happens to see “the shadow of a great wolf”.

So, could a similar ritual return Jon's back to his body, with his mind having been combined with Ghosts? Does the Mirri-Drogo scene serve as a precedent and a possible parallel? If so, the process would undoubtedly come with a huge cost.

It's drilled into us that “only death may pay for life”, in bloodmagic, and Mel says that “a great gift requires a great sacrifice”. Ghost might have to be sacrificed in order to bring back Jon. Although Ghost would still live on as part Jon, to soften the blow. Ragnorak reminded me that it's likely the death of Lady might have brought Bran from his coma. The death of Ghost would be shocking, but an appropriate price to pay for the resurrection of Jon Snow. And perhaps the rebirth of something more...

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Quite interesting. Almost convinced me that Jon may be dead. Almost :devil:

If Jon is in second life, and somehow is returned to his body, he will never have actually died, so in that sense will be unique to the story and will not be an 'Un-Jon' (in the full sense) if resurrected.

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If Jon is in second life, and somehow is returned to his body, he will never have actually died, so in that sense will be unique to the story and will not be an 'Un-Jon' (in the full sense) if resurrected.

The problem will be the public image of him. At the Wall, only one sort of corpse rises. And no one would follow one of those. Even if they didn't destroy the corpse, the entire arc of Jon growing into leadership would be wasted.

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The problem will be the public image of him. At the Wall, only one sort of corpse rises. And no one would follow one of those. Even if they didn't destroy the corpse, the entire arc of Jon growing into leadership would be wasted.

You know that's what I was thinking too. Who would follow Jesus in a realm where only zombies come back to life? However Im betting however it's written how ever the out come only the absolute Jon haters are going to hate.

Either way I just want the next book out.

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Great write-up.


the only one thing bothered me when reading it through was about Jon's Hand growing stiff & clumsy.


Throughout the book, Jon flexing his hand has become such a part of his character, along with his


"you know nothing" line of thought. so much that believing that he would stop exercising his fingers


& hand to the point of not being able to draw his sword, seems confusing.


i did see a theory about Jon being poisoned earlier that day, to make it easier for BC & Co.to rebel.


i cant remember who wrote that theory, but maybe someone can dig it up, and give it a re-air


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Great write-up.

the only one thing bothered me when reading it through was about Jon's Hand growing stiff & clumsy.

Throughout the book, Jon flexing his hand has become such a part of his character, along with his

"you know nothing" line of thought. so much that believing that he would stop exercising his fingers

& hand to the point of not being able to draw his sword, seems confusing.

i did see a theory about Jon being poisoned earlier that day, to make it easier for BC & Co.to rebel.

i cant remember who wrote that theory, but maybe someone can dig it up, and give it a re-air

I think Jon's hand growing stiff is more to do with the fact it's got a lot colder and I *think* he may not have been wearing any gloves on the fateful day. I agree he flexes his fingers throughout the books. Interestingly, if the cold effected his burnt hand, Jon succumbs to a combination of ice and fire.

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Well if he were paralyzed from say his neck down, then when he landed face down in the snow he'd feel the snow on his face....cold.

Well like I said in the post, there are alternative explanations, but it just seems like a real stretch to me. If Jon has been paralysed from the neck down, or any other similar scenario, this is a huge major event. Grrm almost always foreshadows such things, and I would ask - where is the textual support? I certainly can't find any trace, and the scenario I've described happens to fit in with visions, HoTU, dreams and legends, and other things I've presented.

Weird... I remember another occasion (in Robin Hobb's Farseer Trilogy) where main character was killed but saved his mind/soul by warging into wolf.

Very interesting, should've thought that myself. Thanks for doing it for me. :P

Ive never read. Does the guy live on in his wolf like Varamyr, or does he get returned to his body?

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Well done yolkboy!! :)

What makes this so compelling for me is the amount of textual foreshadowing you've assembled in support of this-- Foreshadowing of his hand failing him, of his death, of a second life, of resurrection, and of "sleeping" in an ice cell all point in one direction as far as I'm concerned.

Concerning his status as a reborn leader, and whether his men will follow him because of the negative connotations of reanimation at the Wall, I guess it comes down to the nature of the resurrection. I can think of several scenarios where Mel could pull it off, but I think that's a discussion best left for later in the thread.

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Ive never read. Does the guy live on in his wolf like Varamyr, or does he get returned to his body?

The guy, Fitz, has his body stolen from grave and more or less magically 'repaired' by another user of Wit* before he is called back to it. More interesting part is that he is nearly lost his humanity and have to be taught behave as man, against his own will.

I recommend the series, if you ever find yourself bored enough. Hobb is not as cruel, frustrating or unpredictable writer as GRRM, but he knows how to tell more relaxed story.

*Hobb's version of mental magic used by skinchangers

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