A Theory: The possibly game-changing secret beneath the Winterfell Crypts

[LongRider]

Lyanna made Ned promise to pretend that Jon is his bastard, thereby tarnishing his reputation and risking the wrath of his wife, but keeping Jon safe from the Baratheons. Ned may have carried artifacts to the crypts - I'm sure that wouldn't have been so difficult that he'd have to promise her extra to do that, but damaging his honor is something that she wants him to promise to do.

Here are some possible other people who might know of Jon's lineage: Benjen Stark - Ned's and Lyanna's little brother. He's in the Night's Watch and spends half his time north of the wall, so nobody's likely to interrogate him. Robb Stark - he's Ned's heir, so perhaps Ned imparted this very important piece of knowledge to him prior to leaving for King's Landing. Robb would have included it in his last will and testament, which, I believe now resides with Howland Reed. Old Nan - I'm not sure why, but she seems to know everything. The Three-Eyed Crow - because he's, like, omniscient.

If that is true and the will is found that could be quite a development!

[Mimessa]

As I've pointed out, even a harp of that size is pretty large, heavy, and awkward to travel with if one has limited cargo capacity. See above.

A minstrel traveling with a harp is very different from the situation from what Eddard would have been facing. A harp would be a singer's livelihood, his most important possession, while Rhaegar's harp would be pretty low on the list of valuable things in Eddard's charge following the Tower of Joy. There's also the matter of how to hide it and transport it without raising questions.

With the spoils of war, inside the coffin, in a barrel of grain...

Incidentally, one key reason I doubt Lyanna asked Ned to promise this is that, as someone told me in a recent thread, she was dying and probably didn't have time to go into details. So I think she would prioritise. Ned, 1) Keep the baby safe. 2) Raise him as your own son. 3) Never breathe a word about this to anyone. 4) Tell Jon when he comes of age. She might have told him Rhaegar's prophecy, because it could be important for him to know. If she got around to it, she might have asked to be buried in the crypts. Maybe include some object.

My theory's contention is that Ned would have no problem with the first three, in fact he would probably do them without even being asked. Lyanna, knowing her brother probably wouldn't waste her last breaths on things that Ned would already do, but on something he wouldn't want to do.

And since there is never a moment where Ned's internal thoughts reveal any intention of telling Jon (other than the cathartic, reflective time in the Black Cells) it implies he never promised to tell Jon. There is never any mention of possible or eventual relief from his guilt.

Your only remaining choices are that Ned promised to never tell anyone or that he promised to bury her in the crypts. The notion that he promised to never tell anyone runs counter to his general anti-lying principles and the fact that he suddenly felt like telling Jon while in prison. I am on a bus or I would link my argument that Ned didn't even lie at his public confession to support this allegation.

It's also more consistent with Ned's thoughts that he bears the sole responsibility of deciding when and if to tell Jon; his regrets never mention any notion of a shared vow or promise that might absolve or reassure him that he is doing the right thing. It's especially notable that he feels shame when he thinks of Jon while in the black cells, as if he suddenly realizes he's made a morally wrong choice; if it had been for a promise to Lyanna he would likely find some solace in the fact that it was a promise to a dying sister that kept him quiet and not his own choices. Notice at that moment he surprisingly does NOT think about Lyanna's promise (because the decision to reveal his ancestry wasn't part of her promise).

Thus it seems likely that the promise was about her burial.

Maybe Bran treespeaks to young Neddles and/or Lyanna :o. "Promise me, Ned, that you will love him as you loved me." something like this could incorporate all the variations of protecting Jon godos says. I could see her with whatever artifacts Rhaegar gave to her to mark TPTWP but I imagine that Ned wouldn't give a rat's ass about the prophecies and would bring whatever things Lyanna asked of him. She might not have even fully "got" whatever the prophecy was and just accepted the items as powerful tokens of a secret love--and maybe when Ned might've protested taking them or suggested destroying them or hiding them elsewhere she would've gone full not-now-bro-I'm-literally-dying-this-is-incredibly-important-to-me and since he does love her, why wouldn't he say yes (especially in a post-Rhaegy's babies getting smashed world). I know this is speculative as hell but it would be a way in which two close siblings might act, particularly when one is dying and the other war-weary.

Very nicely laid out analysis OP...but it begs a small question;

Knowing Ned's attitude to NW deserter's and oathbreakers as explicitly shown in Chapter 1, and hearing first hand from the deserter that the White Walkers are back...also hearing from Benjen how dangerous it's getting north of the wall and knowing Benjen would be out ranging...and IF he knows that Jon is R+Ls son and TPTWP (and therefore somewhat important), then why would Ned allow him to take the black? And send him north with a Lannister no less??

Knowing that in order to fulfill whatever destiny Jon may have, he would have to not only renege on his NW oaths, but survive against white walkers, a wildling army on the move, and winter in an under-manned, under-fed group of convicted murderers, rapists and other criminals sounds very un-Neddish to me.

Edit: forgot the fact that he was also sending Jon to a guy whose son he condemned to death!

I personally don't think Ned ever wanted to tell Jon, and related to that he did not strike me as a strong believer of magic and prophecy. Since AA and TPTWP seem largely rooted in older Targaryen texts and the religion of the red priests, it's unlikely Ned thought much of that stuff other than to suggest the belief in that hokum pretty much caused Roberts Rebellion.

In the OP and in several of my comments I lay out why Ned would never want to tell Jon his ancestry. Jon going to the Wall is a handy way for Jon to remain under the tutelage of his uncle, find a family that might welcome him more openly that Catelyn did, shed his insecurity related to his uncertain self-worth and remove Jon as a potential threat to the realm. Besides, Jon wanted to go There are just too many 'wins' for Ned and the secrecy of Jon's heritage by letting Jon take the black.

And this is all pre-Starksplosion so the danger surrounding them was different. The north-north would be a way for Jon to get the honor he deserves as Lyanna's son while finally getting him away from the long-suffering Catelyn. The NW for Jon is the most loving thing Ned could do for a bastard. And him going to the guy whose son he killed means nothing--that's not how honor works for Neddles. It's like his protesting Dany being assassinated despite being of a lineage with crazy worldeaters.

Why would it even occur to Jon to go down into the tombs and desecrate graves? Would he just wake up one morning and decide, gee, I know what I want to do today.... journey all the way down to Winterfell and dig up some graves for no particular reason whatsoever.

On the other hand, Mance has already shown interest in these tombs. I can picture him desecrating graves, looking for something, just like he was looking for that horn for so long. But it he found something that Jon should see, do you think he'd tell him/show him?

PS: Still looking forward to finding out why the wolf was scared to go into the tombs. Seems to me if it was just a harp, cloak, crown, whatever down there.... why would the wolf be scared of it?

The wolf could be warg-sensing JSnow's unease, could sense loose spirits, could sense dragonbabies. Maybe Mance is down there and JSnow is like naw bro and races down to find Mance, a musician himself, getting at the harp. A stretch, but even if widely varied from this idea it could still follow the basic structure of someone disturbing the rest and JSnow x Ghost dealing justice. Maybe HR would be the one to lead him to it (I'm particularly interested in someone's mentioning that HR could be the author of the pink letter that ends up turning JSnow into a pincushion.) Maybe Bran, Ghost, Theon, Meli, Stannis... Maybe Robb's decree puts him there or he wants to see his family's statues, particularly post-decree where he would be a Stark and would technically belong there, in his mind.

[OnlyOne]

The swords are missing and hence the ghosts of Winterfell are free to roam. Leanna's tomb has the answers no doubt. But Howland Reed knows and it's very likely Bran will know soon. All this has been discussed to death but hey...feel free.

[Rhaegar Targaryen's Ghost]

I remember reading this recently on reddit and being very impressed. I love the idea of Rhaegar's harp being down in the crypts. Personally, I'm leaning towards there being three items down there, because royal regalia comes in threes: Torrhen's crown, Rhaegar's harp, and a wedding cloak. One to represent his Stark bloodline, one to represent his Targaryen bloodline, and one to represent the meeting of the two.

YUPP. This. :agree:

[son1dow]

Man, the communities around asoiaf are a bunch of smart folk. This theory is just brilliant.

[Mdoggy]

What if Lyanna's tomb does not have a sword because she is waiting for Jon to come find her. If her tomb had a sword she would be trapped but if the swords keep the Stak's souls from wandering... could Lyanna's ghost be wandering into Jon's dreams?

if he finishes his dream where he goes down to the crypts could he find Lyanna's shade?

It would be cool if her ghost is down there and somehow this image leads Jon to the revelation...

I love the idea of the harp being in the tomb. It would be perfect.

Dark Sister could be in the toumb too because if R was trying to recreate the orrigional trio all that was left was Visenya. Visenya wielded Dark Sister. So if R expected J to be Visenya reborn, he could have left him Visenya's sword. (which could lead him to riding a dragon the same color as Vhagar)

Lastly, Lyanna is in the tomb. Her shade could talk to Jon.

[BoldGhost]

Brilliant theory. My friend and I are in complete agreement with you.

[Lord Damian]

the 3 tombs are all joined/next to each other as well as Lyanna being the only female down there that we know of. In otherwords,the joined tomb is big

[JonCon's Red Beard]

After reading this theory...

I googled harp. I thought what Rhaegar played was a lyre... D: A harp is a monster... did he carry that thing around? He had more chances to kill Robert with his harp than with a sword...

[mattyp1186]

I love this theory. I also believe Jon has to "die" to find out the knowledge he needs. This will be discovered during his "dead" state as in the quote from the original post below:

"Jon Snow has had frequent ominous dreams of a mysterious destiny that awaits him in the crypts. Bran and Rickon dreamed of Eddard trying to talk to them about Jon in the crypts, and Eddard regretted things he never told to Jon while in the black cells. As for how Jon might learn, consider the possibility that Jon may have a Bran-like dream or vision while he is dead/warged. If you remember that dream of his in the Winterfell crypts —the one he can never finish because he always wakes up? Well, in this dead/warged state he can't wake up and is forced to finish the dream. This dream gives him the knowledge he needs."

If I remember correctly my 10th grade english class, my teacher said something about how in many mythology stories the hero always goes to the underworld. Well i looked it up on Wiki and found this:

The descent to the underworld is a mytheme of comparative mythology found in a diverse number of religions from around the world, including Christianity. The hero or upper-world deity journeys to the underworld or to the land of the dead and returns, often with a quest-object or a loved one, or with heightened knowledge. The ability to enter the realm of the dead while still alive, and to return, is a proof of the classical hero's exceptional status as more than mortal. A deity who returns from the underworld demonstrates eschatological themes such as the cyclical nature of time and existence, or the defeat of death and the possibility of immortality.^[1]

- Wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Descent_to_the_underworld

This would seem to fit very nicely.

[The Bastard of Walton]

Well after reading that all my theories seem awful. cantuse, truly brilliant, well thought out & makes a hell of a lot of sense.

[Booknerd2]

And, very subtle, but it is brought up that Ned was in the act of "bringing things back."

He gave Lady Dustin her husband's horse.

He brought Dawn to Starfall.

It really does make sense for many reasons and on many levels that he would bring something back. Whether just for his sister's memory or highly likely because Ned learned the lesson very hard and very early, that you never know how events will pan out, and that he knew he would need something to prove who Jon is. In case it ever became an issue.

No matter how much you trust, Jon was never a true secret. Howland knows, his children might now, Wylla knows. So Ned HAD to have something, a way to do so.

But any immediate evidence was destroyed while Robert and others were living and when Jon was an infant and later a child and vulnerable.

After all he went through, and possibly just with Howland and Wylla left. He made damn sure to go out of his way and pull the entire TOWER of Joy down, which means anything in it too was destroyed. Because you have about of year's worth of many events and evidence that could have hurt Jon right in that cylindrical structure.

[AryaNymeriaVisenya]

What if Lyanna's tomb does not have a sword because she is waiting for Jon to come find her. If her tomb had a sword she would be trapped but if the swords keep the Stak's souls from wandering... could Lyanna's ghost be wandering into Jon's dreams?

if he finishes his dream where he goes down to the crypts could he find Lyanna's shade?

It would be cool if her ghost is down there and somehow this image leads Jon to the revelation...

I love the idea of the harp being in the tomb. It would be perfect.

Dark Sister could be in the toumb too because if R was trying to recreate the orrigional trio all that was left was Visenya. Visenya wielded Dark Sister. So if R expected J to be Visenya reborn, he could have left him Visenya's sword. (which could lead him to riding a dragon the same color as Vhagar)

Lastly, Lyanna is in the tomb. Her shade could talk to Jon.

I think Torrhen's crown of Iron and bronze is keeping her down. I think Ned could get away with taking that. Its his inheritance after all.

[Lord Damian]

I am so anti- Targ, that the thought of Rheagar leaving the crown of the North for his "Targ" kid pisses me off as arrogant but it makes sense as his father, the Mad King was actively trying to clear the path for Lyanna and her child to inherit the North as RIckard and Brandon were dead, Ned was wanted dead, even before there was a rebellion and Benjen may have already left for the wall before the kidnapping. As for the harp, it proves nothing as everyone knows Rheagar kidnapped Lyanna and the running story is she was chained up for rape material. Who knows what is in Lyanna's tomby. I am more interested in what is in the ancient/collapsed section of the tomb.

[The other prince]

I like the Harp theory myself. However it proves nothing to anyone by itself.

[AryaNymeriaVisenya]

I am so anti- Targ, that the thought of Rheagar leaving the crown of the North for his "Targ" kid pisses me off as arrogant but it makes sense as his father, the Mad King was actively trying to clear the path for Lyanna and her child to inherit the North as RIckard and Brandon were dead, Ned was wanted dead, even before there was a rebellion and Benjen may have already left for the wall before the kidnapping. As for the harp, it proves nothing as everyone knows Rheagar kidnapped Lyanna and the running story is she was chained up for rape material. Who knows what is in Lyanna's tomby. I am more interested in what is in the ancient/collapsed section of the tomb.

If it makes you feel better, should it be found it would likely grace Rickon's head by the end of the story as the direct heir to the throne of the North which Lyanna never was.

[TKE]

Rheagar's Harp looks like it is hidden in HBO's logo. The 3 lines in the "o"s sure do look like a harp to me :)

[Dorian Martell]

nice catch

[Ser Brandon Badwater]

It`s the original ice and if you go deeper theres a strream that leads all the way to he cave of the COTF

[Ser Cold Fingers]

The harp will be wrapped up in the protection cloak Rhaegar used when they wed...all of which will be inside Lyanna's tomb.