The Traveler Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 "He tried to tell her all of it, about Reek and the Dreadfort and Kyra and the keys, how Lord Ramsay never took anything but skin unless you begged for it."Theon's preview chapter from TWOW Now I can hardly imagine, as painful as it could be, someone begging for his manhood to be cut off. Two reason's why this detail is important for Theon's arc are: 1. Psychological reasons: Sure Varys and the Unsullied seem to have got over it, and having lost their penises does not seem to be a psychological handicap for them. But they have suffered the gelding as kids. They never knew puberty and they had the time to be accustomed to those missing inches. Theon on the other hand is a grown man and having it removed would completely destroy him, I think. 2. Political reasons: For having heirs. Oh wait! What am I talking about? "Torgon Greyiron was the king’s eldest son. But the king was old and Torgon restless, so it happened that when his father died he was raiding along the Mander from his stronghold on Greyshield. His brothers sent no word to him but instead quickly called a kingsmoot [...] Torgon came home and said the kingsmoot was unlawful since he had not been there to make his claim."One of Asha's chapters from ADWD When told of the story of Torgon the Latecomer, Asha has that light bulb moment and thanks Tristifer Botley for the information. So I think it might have inspired her something involving Theon, with the same scenario. How would they succeed, though? No idea. Probably with the help of Stannis to win the Iron islands to his side. Also, I believe Theon will recover from his psychological torture and will gradually stop being Reek. One of is last moments in Winterfell: “Reek, is that you?”Yes, he meant to say. Instead he heard himself reply, “Theon Greyjoy [...]" So, again. It was never literally mentioned that Theon's wiener was cut off, only hinted at. Suspicious, don't you think? Well I believe the passage from Theon's preview chapter reinforces the theory that it was not. To me, it was kind of "flayed". What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jory Cassel Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 You did not complete the phrase started in the title: "... was to be attached to Robert Strong by Qyburn?" you're welcome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 What a great way to title a thread... Moot point though. In the S3 ep that George wrote Theon clearly gets castrated, and later its suggested it was sent to Greyjoys. I know book and show canon is different, but c'mon, GRRM wrote that ep as a "hehehehehhe debate that" to fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Drunkard Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 What do you think? Ramsay flayed his penis and did whatever else (probably vinegar-related) until Theon asked for it to be cut off, which it then was. I don't think it's suspicious at all given other POVs hiding things from the reader. Dany hid her intentions for the Unsullied throughout that Astapor chapter, Ned hid R+L=J whenever he thought about Rhaegar or Jon or Lyanna, Cat hid her intention for Jaime when she asked for Brienne's sword, Cersei hid her killing of her childhood friend when it was brought up, yadda yadda. I certainly think there's far more evidence for him being castrated. When thinking of the parts Ramsay took he mentions "the other thing". When showing his hands to Dustin and the other nobles he takes comfort in them not seeing him fully naked. When asked to get Jeyne 'ready' for Ramsay he's initially shocked, saying "but I have no...". When about to receive a bath he freaks out saying that "they'll know". Also, one of Ramsay's taunts becomes particularly biting if he was castrated, the one about Theon's cock straining against his pants. Plus, he stinks all the time, which I believe having a missing penis will cause. It can be interpreted either way of course, but I think it makes a lot more sense for him to be castrated given Ramsay's hardon for taking away any semblance of power and manhood Theon had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jslay427 Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 Ramsay asks Theon if his cock is pressing up against his breeches when he looks at FArya spread eagle. Was it said in jest? I'm not so sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoamingRonin Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 What a great way to title a thread... Moot point though. In the S3 ep that George wrote Theon clearly gets castrated, and later its suggested it was sent to Greyjoys. I know book and show canon is different, but c'mon, GRRM wrote that ep as a "hehehehehhe debate that" to fans. :agree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanless Mace Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 For the record, he deserved it for his treachery...but Ramsey deserves worse. I look forward to a gruesome end for Ramsey, though I suspect he will actually "disappear" and survive the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Traveler Posted November 19, 2013 Author Share Posted November 19, 2013 What a great way to title a thread.. what's wrong with it? XD noob here, I just did not want to spoil something from the title. (probably vinegar-related) it hurts just to read it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Monkey Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 :agree: Well, it never really matters how explicitly something is stated in the books, there's always room for debate. In the prologue to Winds of Winter, Ramsay could turn and directly address the reader and say, "I castrated Theon, removing his genitals with a pair of pruning shears," and there would be a lot of debate about whether he was just saying that to demoralize Theon or if it was really Stannis or Mance who said it disguised as Ramsay. Plus, he stinks all the time, which I believe having a missing penis will cause. Can you connect the dots for me here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dios_achilleus Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 Ramsay asks Theon if his cock is pressing up against his breeches when he looks at FArya spread eagle. Was it said in jest? I'm not so sure. Ramsay wouldn't make an extremely cruel joke? The joke is only funny if Theon doesn't have a penis anymore. Jeyne Poole isn't that pretty (though I'd have to dig for a quote). Plus, he stinks all the time, which I believe having a missing penis will cause. Really? Forgive my ignorance, but this wasn't covered in my biology classes in college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blutraven Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 I believe he's castrated, but he can still be used to overturn the kingsmoot. If that happens they could choose Asha for Queen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfyre demon Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 QuotePlus, he stinks all the time, which I believe having a missing penis will cause. Can you connect the dots for me here? If you don't have a penis you can't hold in your...A BIG CLUEMost often it's yellow, liquid and it smells But the stink can be attributed to sleeping with the dogs.All that aside he is definitely castrated,why else would he be so paranoid about being seen nakedor why else does Roose say that Theon's not a man anymore when debating who the ghost of Winterfell is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 what's wrong with it? XD noob here, I just did not want to spoil something from the title. I was sincere. I wouldn't have clicked on the thread if it wasn't so eyecatching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gar Weg Wun Sygerrik Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 With as much torture as Theon has had, even if he is intact he would probably be impotent. So Ramsey's comment about 'use your mouth then' on Ramsey's wedding night, and the quote in the OP could just be taunting him for this fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iona Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 Plus, he stinks all the time, which I believe having a missing penis will cause. Oooh, so that's why Varys wears perfume all the time but can easily transfer himself into a stinking turnkey, and why the Unsullied wish to bathe every day... There was a time when I wondered how the Unsullied make their water, squatting down, I presumed. But let's not go there. If you don't have a penis you can't hold in your... I don't have a penis, and I can still hold in my... not convinced! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Drunkard Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 Can you connect the dots for me here? Really? Forgive my ignorance, but this wasn't covered in my biology classes in college. I'm not sure why, to be honest. It's something I've seen stated quite a bit without any controversy, but after doing a quick search apparently penis removal/reconstruction can often lead to urinary incontinence, which I imagine is what Theon suffers from. Oooh, so that's why Varys wears perfume all the time but can easily transfer himself into a stinking turnkey, and why the Unsullied wish to bathe every day... There was a time when I wondered how the Unsullied make their water, squatting down, I presumed. But let's not go there. Apparently there existed a practice of physically plugging the hole in older times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blutraven Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 I'm not sure why, to be honest. It's something I've seen stated quite a bit without any controversy, but after doing a quick search apparently penis removal/reconstruction can often lead to urinary incontinence, which I imagine is what Theon suffers from. Apparently there existed a practice of physically plugging the hole in older times. The skin at that area would probably be constantly getting infected, and it be much harder to shake the last drops off too, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 Eunuchs who've had their penises, as well as testicles, removed, tend to dribble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Monkey Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 I realize this is entirely my fault, but I really, really shouldn't have asked for clarification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotherMerciless Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 Ramsay flayed his penis and did whatever else (probably vinegar-related) until Theon asked for it to be cut off, which it then was .Oh lordy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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