Your Predictions at the Vale

[TeamMartell]

What do you think will happen at the Vale during TWoW?

I'm really anticipating due to the cliffhanger and how it was omitted from ADwD, and I love LF's scheming.

What are your predictions, thoughts, and opinions of what will happen at the Vale?

Keeping in mind:

- Littlefinger plans to marry Sansa to Harry the Heir, and reveal her identity

- Sansa's next chapter is "controversial"

- Sansa will "slay a savage giant in a castle made of snow" if it hadn't happened already.

At this point, Cersei & Tommen are most likely dead(prophesied),and Stannis,Aegon,or someone else are probably ruling.

Here's what I think will happen:

1. Alayne becomes Sansa again and marries Harry the Heir despite not wanting to.

2. Littlefinger makes his move kills Robert Arryn, making Harry the Lord.

3. Harry and Sansa rule as Lord and Lady of the Vale, and Warden of the East.

4. If Boltons are killed by Stannis (and hated by most Northmen), the Northmen turn toSansa as Lady of the North, cause her brothers are "dead".

5. With Edmure imprisoned, and Sansa as his only heir, Sansa is recognized as 'Lady' Paramount of the Riverlands (to the houses who won't accept LF).

6. Sansa now is rightfully: Lady of the Vale, the North, and possibly the Riverlands (cause most Riverlords deny Baelish and are sworn to Tullys)

7. Littlefinger sees the potential power in Sansa and is ready to make his next move.

8. Sansa surprisingly likes Harry; she didn't think she would because he had bastards already, but she is fond him.

9. Littlefinger kills Harry despite Sansa's fondness of him. in hope to rule the Vale, the North, and the Riverlands through Sansa.

10. Sansa loses temper after Harry's death and "slays" Littlefinger.

11. Littlefinger has no heirs as Lord Paramount so the Riverlords completely turn to Sansa

12, Sansa is now Lady of the Vale, Lady the North, and Lady of the Riverlands (Winterfell,Eyrie,Riverrun,Harrenhal*) until....

I don't know what happens next but I'll predict....

- she'll marry Aegon, or...

- Davos will return Rickon to the Manderlys and Sansa will give him his rightful titles of the North and Riverlands to gain power over the North for Rickon. With the Boltons taken out by Stannis, all the Bolton-serving Northmen will also turn to Rickon, because Rickon is the rightful Lord over Sansa. This will bring peace in the North according to Lord Manderly, and Rickon may be declared KITN.

- The Hound brings Sansa to Winterfell.

*Lady of Harrenhal through Minisa Whent; Catelyn's mother. All the other Whents and Lord Baelish are dead at that point, so Sansa is rightfully the Lord.

So what are your thoughts? What will be Sansa's fate in TWoW?

[Arthur Dayne's Honor]

Here is what I think will happen.

LF sets up her wedding to Harry but the night before the wedding he steals into her chambers and attempts to rape her, but she grabs the Catspaw blade from his belt and kills him with it.

She knows by now how loyal the Vale lords are to the Starks and will reveal herself to them.

They will attempt to make her Lady of the North but Robb's Will surfaces proclaiming Jon as KITN as well as Rickon returns from Skagos. By this time Stannis is dead but he managed to oust the Boltons before the GNC climaxes. Being to prideful to accept the Northerners outplayed him he attempts to force their obedience but is slain. Not wanting to complicate things she quits pressing her claim and rules by Jon's side as King and Queen Regent of the North(in title only) until Rickon comes of age. But shortly afterwards Jon's lineage is revealed, if Jon doesn't already know but it will become common knowledge at some point. He will then press his claim with the North, Vale, Riverlands, and perhaps the remainder of Stannis's army. At this point it will play out similar to Fire Eater's Rundown of the Dance of Dragons 2.0 where Dany will ride Drogon to WF to confront Jon and he will prove his heritage TO HER by showing her the proof in WF's crypts and mounting Drogon through warging. They will then turn their attention to the Others.

[Raven in Winter]

It seems to me, LF is putting an awful lot of faith in Sansa doing exactly what he tells her to do. If she gains all of those allies and turns on LF, he is probably screwed.

[ladytiger]

Here is what I think will happen.

LF sets up her wedding to Harry but the night before the wedding he steals into her chambers and attempts to rape her, but she grabs the Catspaw blade from his belt and kills him with it.

She knows by now how loyal the Vale lords are to the Starks and will reveal herself to them.

They will attempt to make her Lady of the North but Robb's Will surfaces proclaiming Jon as KITN as well as Rickon returns from Skagos. By this time Stannis is dead but he managed to oust the Boltons before the GNC climaxes. Being to prideful to accept the Northerners outplayed him he attempts to force their obedience but is slain. Not wanting to complicate things she quits pressing her claim and rules by Jon's side as King and Queen Regent of the North(in title only) until Rickon comes of age. But shortly afterwards Jon's lineage is revealed, if Jon doesn't already know but it will become common knowledge at some point. He will then press his claim with the North, Vale, Riverlands, and perhaps the remainder of Stannis's army. At this point it will play out similar to Fire Eater's Rundown of the Dance of Dragons 2.0 where Dany will ride Drogon to WF to confront Jon and he will prove his heritage TO HER by showing her the proof in WF's crypts and mounting Drogon through warging. They will then turn their attention to the Others.

I agree with most of what you said, except I don't see Littlefinger dying that soon into TWoW. I definitely think that his days are numbered, but I think he'd die towards the end of TWoW, perhaps the last chapter before the Epilogue (similar to how Lysa died in Sansa's chapter in ASoS, the last chapter before the Epilogue).

[OberynBlackfyre]

I think the OP's way is a little too clear cute.


While he WANTS to marry her to Harry the Heir, I actually find her NOT wanting to be with him (as she is now sick of supposedly "valiant" and "perfect" people) , and therefore tries to find ways of sabotaging their engagement. This will be to the chagrin of Littlefinger, as he pretty much counted on Harry falling in love with Sansa simply because of her beauty and naturally perfect demeanor.

However, when word of Aegon gets to him, his plans begin to switch up. He sees that Aegon is without betrothal, and that the Queen of the North (and there would be no need to call her PAramount of the Trident, as the River Lords also chose Robb to be their King) & Trident could be a very, very tempting offer for a King trying to ensure the Iron Throne.

Sansa begins tiring of Littlefingers ploy and with Myranda Royce mayhaps begins a design to take LF out of the picture whilst also putting her in a place of protecting (a marriage to Aegon, or a betrothal to Harry under certain circumstances)




Also, the "killing of the giant in a castle made of snow" could have EASILY, EASILY been done already, when Sansa ripped off the head of Sweetrobins doll. He even CALLED the doll a giant, and the castle she made was literally of snow. I personally think this was somewhat of a joke of GRRM, to see who was paying attention.

Lastly, Sansa is already proving that she can now become an active player in the game. And as she learns more and more about LF (in fact, if she actually puts two and two together about what Lysa was saying about killing Jon Arryn and then sending the letter to Catelyn blaming the Lannisters for Arryns death, she will see LF was pretty much responsible for the wreckage of her family) she will see that he is NOT to be trusted, and that he pretty much sees her as a pawn that he will want to sometimes use for sex. This is something Sansa will simply not accept, and outsmart him at his own game.

[Raven in Winter]

I just think it would be hilarious if LF goes out the air loc- er, I mean moon door. Sorry, I'm just feeling silly.

[Jon of the Dead]

LF's plan to rule 3 kingdoms through Sansa depends on 3 things:

1. Sansa marrying Harry and having his child (or a child that can easily pass as Harry's). After this, I think LF plans to kill Harry

2. Edmure (and his son, if Roslin has a son) dying. I think LF is planning on killing Edmure too, because he's the only one left from the Riverrun crew and the one who gave LF his nickname. Or he probably expects the Lannisters or Freys will kill him.

3. The northeners still believing Bran and Rickon are dead

If these things happen, Sansa gets the Eyrie, Riverrun, and Winterfell. But we know #3 is failing right now, because of the GNC. I think the Blackfish or the BwB will attempt to release Edmure, so #2 goes out the window.

As for #1, I think Sansa will pretend to go along with the plot to kill Robin, and she'll fool us readers for a while, but then she will kill Harry (who I think is gonna be a huge douche) instead, maybe in a feast in which LF reveals her true identity to the Vale, and she'll blame LF.

LF then escapes, and Lord Royce rules the Vale as Robin's regent, but as we've been told already, Robin only listens to Sansa, so she'll be the one in charge of manipulating him.

Then the Vale will declare for Aegon. I'd like Sansa to marry him, but I don't want her to be the cause of the Dance 2.0

[OberynBlackfyre]

LF's plan to rule 3 kingdoms through Sansa depends on 3 things:

1. Sansa marrying Harry and having his child (or a child that can easily pass as Harry's). After this, I think LF plans to kill Harry

2. Edmure (and his son, if Roslin has a son) dying. I think LF is planning on killing Edmure too, because he's the only one left from the Riverrun crew and the one who gave LF his nickname. Or he probably expects the Lannisters or Freys will kill him.

3. The northeners still believing Bran and Rickon are dead

If these things happen, Sansa gets the Eyrie, Riverrun, and Winterfell. But we know #3 is failing right now, because of the GNC. I think the Blackfish or the BwB will attempt to release Edmure, so #2 goes out the window.

As for #1, I think Sansa will pretend to go along with the plot to kill Robin, and she'll fool us readers for a while, but then she will kill Harry (who I think is gonna be a huge douche) instead, maybe in a feast in which LF reveals her true identity to the Vale, and she'll blame LF.

LF then escapes, and Lord Royce rules the Vale as Robin's regent, but as we've been told already, Robin only listens to Sansa, so she'll be the one in charge of manipulating him.

Then the Vale will declare for Aegon. I'd like Sansa to marry him, but I don't want her to be the cause of the Dance 2.0

Edmure living/ dying has nothing to do with her getting Riverrun. It's hers by right of the kingdom Robb made. He was King of the North and Trident, as the River lords decided to give homage too, and why the dire wolf was above the trout in Riverrun when Jaime was there to siege it.

Edit: and in another way, all LF has to do as Lord Paramount of the Trident is declare for Sansa as well.

[Jon of the Dead]

Edmure living/ dying has nothing to do with her getting Riverrun. It's hers by right of the kingdom Robb made. He was King of the North and Trident, as the River lords decided to give homage too, and why the dire wolf was above the trout in Riverrun when Jaime was there to siege it.

Edit: and in another way, all LF has to do as Lord Paramount of the Trident is declare for Sansa as well.

In that case, Jon would be the King of the North and the Riverlands, because Sansa isn't Robb's heir. She is, however, Ned's heir, and thus she gets Winterfell in the absence of Bran and Rickon, not as Queen but as Lady, which I think is LF's plan

If Edmure and his potential kid die, then she gets Riverrun, again, as Lady. LF can declare for whoever he wants, but that doesn't necessarily mean the Freys and the other lords will follow.

[GoldenBearMaidenFair]

What's going to happen in the Vale? George RR Martin has to wrap things up in 2 big books so here is what I think it will happen.

My predictions

-I think it's the worst kept secret that Sansa is in the Vale

-The mouse (Shadrich) and his sellswords attempt to kidnap Sansa but the plot is known early because one of them slept with Randa and spilled the secret.

- Bronze Yohn recognized Sansa back at the Eyrie and the Lords Declarents new mission is A. get Sansa away from Littlefinger and B. get Robin away from Littlefinger.

- Littlefinger continues to get more inappropriate with Sansa.

- Littlefingers plot to give robin to Lyn Corbrey is discovered. (Sick Man!)

- Robins health fails. A decision is made to send him to the healer at the Quiet Isle.

- At some point Sansa grows up quick and becomes a leader who can sniff out lies and plots.

- Sansa travels through the Vale and into the Riverlands

- Travels through the Vale is blocked by the Mountain Clans. Sansa's marriage to Tyrion the halfman gets them out of that bind. Chella recognizes Sansa from the time she guarded Sansa from the Kingsguards when they were both at Kings Landing

- Sansa becomes great friends with Mya, Randa and Chella.

- Robert's tapestries from Cersei arrive. They turn out to be portraits of the Targaryans, (the lost tapestries of Darry) and they help the Vale and the North out with the conquest by dany targaryan.

-.Sansa's marriage to Tyrion continues when ever he shows up back in Westeros, but just in name. Through kindness and repayment for his kindness she gets Tyrion out of a jam. Their marriage is annulled when he proclaims it was never consummated.

- Littlefinger spends the rest of the story in a dungeon in the Vale. Come Spring, a healthy Robin Arryn makes him FLY.

[OberynBlackfyre]

In that case, Jon would be the King of the North and the Riverlands, because Sansa isn't Robb's heir. She is, however, Ned's heir, and thus she gets Winterfell in the absence of Bran and Rickon, not as Queen but as Lady, which I think is LF's plan

If Edmure and his potential kid die, then she gets Riverrun, again, as Lady. LF can declare for whoever he wants, but that doesn't necessarily mean the Freys and the other lords will follow.

that is all dependent on Robb's will being found. Also a lot of people who heard about Sansa being passed over for the kingdom are dead, and at the time Sansa was married to a Lannister. Where she is not is far different, and people will follow who they will!

[Jon of the Dead]

that is all dependent on Robb's will being found. Also a lot of people who heard about Sansa being passed over for the kingdom are dead, and at the time Sansa was married to a Lannister. Where she is not is far different, and people will follow who they will!

Yeah, but if the northern lords are going to name another KitN (and assuming Robb's will is not found), then Rickon is far more likely. And then he'd be the king in the North and the Riverlands. Sansa could bring the Vale to him if she marries Harry, but I think it would be pretty difficult for her to be named Queen if Rickon is there as an option too.

And besides, if she becomes a Queen and marries Harry then he'll be King, and that's just ugh. I already hate Harry already and we haven't even met him :P

[James Arryn]

What's going to happen in the Vale? George RR Martin has to wrap things up in 2 big books so here is what I think it will happen.

My predictions

-I think it's the worst kept secret that Sansa is in the Vale

-The mouse (Shadrich) and his sellswords attempt to kidnap Sansa but the plot is known early because one of them slept with Randa and spilled the secret.

- Bronze Yohn recognized Sansa back at the Eyrie and the Lords Declarents new mission is A. get Sansa away from Littlefinger and B. get Robin away from Littlefinger.

- Littlefinger continues to get more inappropriate with Sansa.

- Littlefingers plot to give robin to Lyn Corbrey is discovered. (Sick Man!)

- Robins health fails. A decision is made to send him to the healer at the Quiet Isle.

- At some point Sansa grows up quick and becomes a leader who can sniff out lies and plots.

- Sansa travels through the Vale and into the Riverlands

- Travels through the Vale is blocked by the Mountain Clans. Sansa's marriage to Tyrion the halfman gets them out of that bind. Chella recognizes Sansa from the time she guarded Sansa from the Kingsguards when they were both at Kings Landing

- Sansa becomes great friends with Mya, Randa and Chella.

- Robert's tapestries from Cersei arrive. They turn out to be portraits of the Targaryans, (the lost tapestries of Darry) and they help the Vale and the North out with the conquest by dany targaryan.

-.Sansa's marriage to Tyrion continues when ever he shows up back in Westeros, but just in name. Through kindness and repayment for his kindness she gets Tyrion out of a jam. Their marriage is annulled when he proclaims it was never consummated.

- Littlefinger spends the rest of the story in a dungeon in the Vale. Come Spring, a healthy Robin Arryn makes him FLY.

Nice first post!

One quibble; there's no way in hell Robert Arryn drops to priority 1B, even if a generation of Starks is discovered hiding in the Vale.

[Raven in Winter]

Nice first post!

One quibble; there's no way in hell Robert Arryn drops to priority 1B, even if a generation of Starks is discovered hiding in the Vale.

Yeah hopefully they keep the "Lord Paramount of the Vale" drugged up and behind the scenes. Lil' guy (and I can't say this enough) gives me the creeps.

[Jon of the Dead]

- Littlefinger spends the rest of the story in a dungeon in the Vale. Come Spring, a healthy Robin Arryn makes him FLY.

Love that part, Baelish needs to go away

Also, welcome to the forum :cheers:

[TeamMartell]

They will attempt to make her Lady of the North but Robb's Will surfaces proclaiming Jon as KITN as well as Rickon returns from Skagos. By this time Stannis is dead but he managed to oust the Boltons before the GNC climaxes. Being to prideful to accept the Northerners outplayed him he attempts to force their obedience but is slain. Not wanting to complicate things she quits pressing her claim and rules by Jon's side as King and Queen Regent of the North(in title only) until Rickon comes of age. But shortly afterwards Jon's lineage is revealed, if Jon doesn't already know but it will become common knowledge at some point. He will then press his claim with the North, Vale, Riverlands, and perhaps the remainder of Stannis's army. At this point it will play out similar to Fire Eater's Rundown of the Dance of Dragons 2.0 where Dany will ride Drogon to WF to confront Jon and he will prove his heritage TO HER by showing her the proof in WF's crypts and mounting Drogon through warging. They will then turn their attention to the Others.

This is interesting. However, Jon is still dead and even if he's alive he would be severely injured. Sansa is Ned's heir. Jon is Robb's. I don't think the Northerners would press for Jon as their KitN, cause he's baseborn, but I think they might for Rickon. And besides, Jon is at the wall. So I don't think he'll just get revived and walk himself to winterfell and declare himself king, whiles he's a member, and Lord Commander of the Night's Watch.

[James Arryn]

Yeah hopefully they keep the "Lord Paramount of the Vale" drugged up and behind the scenes. Lil' guy (and I can't say this enough) gives me the creeps.

Agreed. I've basically moved on to Harrold Arryn. But I suppose there's still hope for the little freak. Teddy Roosevelt type storyline isn't beyond GRRM's imagination.

[Arthur Dayne's Honor]

This is interesting. However, Jon is still dead and even if he's alive he would be severely injured. Sansa is Ned's heir. Jon is Robb's. I don't think the Northerners would press for Jon as their KitN, cause he's baseborn, but I think they might for Rickon. And besides, Jon is at the wall. So I don't think he'll just get revived and walk himself to winterfell and declare himself king, whiles he's a member, and Lord Commander of the Night's Watch.

I consider Robb to be more of a Stark than Ned surprisingly. While looks more like a Tully he was a Warrior King, and while he tried to live to his fathers code of honor he didn't exactly stick to it. Ned was all honor. The Old Stark Kings had some form of honor but they were hard and sometimes cruel. The Northerners may stick to their Kings will rather than their liege lords. Robb's Will will divide the Northern Stark Loyalists. Some will be Team Rickon while others will be Team Jon. An I think that if te Northerners are smart enough for the GNC, then they can reach the fair compromise of having Jon ruling as Rickon's Regent until he comes of age. Jon is Ned's son,maybe not biologically, but he is through and through Ned's and he would never take the birthright of any of his siblings. But the North will need a strong leader not a boy king and Jon is the perfect canidate for the job.

[rivergirl]

I've got a sinking feeling that things have been going too well for Sansa in terms of her being relatively safe and comfortable, and something is going to go wrong. I really hope that's not the case though. I can also see a really awkward maidenhead-examination going down, after which it's declared that her marriage to Tyrion definitely wasn't consummated and she can marry Harry.

The "controversial" Sansa chapter will probably see either her killing Sweetrobin, or her being raped. Possibly by LF, but preferably by Harry because i'm assuming it wouldn't happen aside from in the marriage bed, and at least that way she'd be Lady of the Vale. I don't think LF would rape her anyway, because if he pissed her off she could always tell everyone he killed Lysa.

I also agree that Yohn Royce recognised Sansa and there is some kind of plan to get her the hell away from Littlefinger. Whether or not it works is another story. Maybe he and the other Lords Declarant will respect the long standing Stark-Arryn alliance and be content to let her become Lady of the Vale, and just hope that with power of her own she's not going to take orders from LF any more.

[Darth Visenya]

House Arryn gets wiped out.