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What was more important to Balon? His crown or his vengeance?


The Frosted King

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Definitely vengeance. Self-destructive vengeance.

Except it wasn't really self-destructive. The Ironborn didn't even lose many men in their war against the North. And they still had enough ships to send the Iron Fleet halfway across the world and attack the Reach in force. I don't know why people criticise Balon so much when he got his vengeance and didn't lose many ships or men.

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His pride.



His vengeance feelings are only the mirroring of his pride and his refusal to accept that it has been is own fault and cocky behaviour (pride!!!) that lead to the rightful death of his own children.


His crown is an obvious reference to his pride.


His behaviour in respect to Theon is again, an act of pride: he closes his mind and heart to his own Son because his son learned another way of living, a way of living that he feels it denies him and his pride.



Balon is the kind of father, brother, husband and friend you would never want.


Too much pride is poisonous, leave it to the Gods.


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Except it wasn't really self-destructive. The Ironborn didn't even lose many men in their war against the North. And they still had enough ships to send the Iron Fleet halfway across the world and attack the Reach in force. I don't know why people criticise Balon so much when he got his vengeance and didn't lose many ships or men.

What do you think Tywin was going do to the Greyjoys after he consolidated he his power after defeating Robb?

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And after that? The single most definite fact on Planetos is, that the ruler of entire Westeros won't let any region slip away peacefully - and the Ironborn have no chance to resist on their own.

Balon had already started negotiations with the the Iron Throne. Like any negotiator he started his price high, but I'm sure him and Asha would of settled bowing to the Iron Throne with the West Coast of the North back in Ironborn hands.

And I really don't understand the constant criticism of him not taking Robb's non existent deal. Robb has been leader all of 5 minutes and his predecessors(from the last 3 centuries) has wanted independence. Say Robb dies on the battlefield or some medieval illness and his successor decides that they are happy enough to rejoin Westeros or Joffrey dies and Robb decides that Westeros is not so bad after all, where exactly does that leave Balon? Up a certain creek without a paddle I think.

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Balon had already started negotiations with the the Iron Throne. Like any negotiator he started his price high, but I'm sure him and Asha would of settled bowing to the Iron Throne with the West Coast of the North back in Ironborn hands.

So you're saying Balon's vengeance was more important than his crown. Right?

I mean if he was willing to submit to the Lannisters in exchange for the lands he gained in the North, that's pretty much the definition of choosing vengeance over independence.

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So you're saying Balon's vengeance was more important than his crown. Right?

I mean if he was willing to submit to the Lannisters in exchange for the lands he gained in the North, that's pretty much the definition of choosing vengeance over independence.

But it wasn't just a case of choosing one or the other.I don't think Balon was confident of winning his independence from Tywin, even with Robb as an ally. We know that he thought Tywin was very clever, and that he didn't think much of Robb.

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Definitely vengeance. Self-destructive vengeance.

Very much this.

Of all the potential monarchs/rulers in Westeros, Joffrey/Tommen under the control of Tywin and Cersei, Stannis, Renly, (F)Aegon, Dany, and Robb Stark, Robb was the only one who was/is willing to accept the Iron Islands as an independent Kingdom. And the Iron Islands simply can't exist as an independent kingdom against a united Westeros. A fact that Balon learned the hard way during his first rebellion.

The only possible way the Iron Islands can have their own kingdom is if there is a third kingdom (let's say a Kingdom in the North) in Westeros which presents enough of a potential threat to the Iron Throne that the southerners will not attempt to devote the resources necessary to retake the Iron islands for fear that the third kingdom will take more of the Southern lands (for example a Kingdom in the North annexing the Vale, where they have very strong family ties and support among the Vale Lords).

But rather than accepting the only offer which even resembles an alliance from the green lands, Balon decides not only to reject it but to attack and try to cripple the only faction which has offered any sort of diplomatic recognition of his faction.

If that's not choosing vengeance over a legitimate chance at a crown, than it don't know what is.

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Balon had already started negotiations with the the Iron Throne. Like any negotiator he started his price high, but I'm sure him and Asha would of settled bowing to the Iron Throne with the West Coast of the North back in Ironborn hands.

And I really don't understand the constant criticism of him not taking Robb's non existent deal. Robb has been leader all of 5 minutes and his predecessors(from the last 3 centuries) has wanted independence. Say Robb dies on the battlefield or some medieval illness and his successor decides that they are happy enough to rejoin Westeros or Joffrey dies and Robb decides that Westeros is not so bad after all, where exactly does that leave Balon? Up a certain creek without a paddle I think.

The North and the Iron Islands are natural allies... from a post I made earlier.

  • Both are blood of the First Men.

The Iron Islands need land, the North has a huge tracks of underpopulated land.

The Iron Islands want to be independent from the Iron Throne, the North wants to be independent from the Iron Throne.

The North has no noticeable sea power on the West Coast, the Iron Islands have no sea power on the East Coast where Manderly builds some ships.

The Iron Islands want to pillage gold and valuables, the North really doesn't have much of that so they aren't much of a target to invade and pillage.

I mean, sure, a combined army of Stark and Greyjoy might have still lost the war, but instead Balon decided to go it alone and then asked for an alliance from the Iron Throne. How does this improve his odds of winning? The only reason the Iron Throne didn't attack the Iron Islands was more pressing enemies and the fact Tywin thought it prudent to let the two sides fight and weaken each other before sweeping in and reconquering both. Needless to say, Tywin was not about to let a kingdom of self proclaimed conquerors set up shop right next to the kingdom proper. Especially when he had a chance to further secure the Lannister legacy by setting up his son as Lord of Winterfell.

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But it wasn't just a case of choosing one or the other.I don't think Balon was confident of winning his independence from Tywin, even with Robb as an ally. We know that he thought Tywin was very clever, and that he didn't think much of Robb.

You're right, it wasn't a choice of one or the other, at first. Balon could easily have simply declared the Iron Islands independent and left it at that.

But as soon as he decided to try to invade Westeros, whether it was the North or somewhere in the south, he was effectively taking sides in the conflict.

It's definitely true that he had no way of knowing that if he sided with Robb that he would be successful in bringing the iron Islands to independence. But as soon as he decided to side against the Starks he doomed the Iron Islands to, sooner or later, falling back under the control of the Iron Throne.

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Did Robb even have the right to offer the Iron Islands independence? Only the Iron Throne can grant independence, and Robb was only fighting to be King in the North. So once Robb won the North's independence, why would he care what happened to the Iron Islands?

Of course he didn't have the right. That's why it's called "rebellion".

The Iron Throne would need to be defeated to accept Northern independence. Same as for accepting Ironborn independence. Both win. And allies in a war tend to stick together, that's why it's called an alliance.

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I thought the author was invoking Japan or something with the Iron Island's strategy. Everyone knew on some level it was stupid but no one could bring themselves to say so (WWII obv). Although, Balon would have made more sense if he didn't take a crown and just took a piece of the north and swore fealty to the Iron Throne. That might have worked (or not).


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I thought the author was invoking Japan or something with the Iron Island's strategy. Everyone knew on some level it was stupid but no one could bring themselves to say so (WWII obv). Although, Balon would have made more sense if he didn't take a crown and just took a piece of the north and swore fealty to the Iron Throne. That might have worked.

There the comparison falls short. Asha, Theon, Lord Harlaw, a lot of people said so, in advance. But "Balon was mad, Aeron was madder" and Victarion "dumb as a stump". In the end, it was their decision and nobody could do anything about it at all.

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