Ghost POV?

[DaarioKnowsBest]

I'm going with what's in the text, it's you who thinks they know otherwise. Here...

Please quote the text that says second life is always the exact same for everybody no matter what and that warg skills have nothing to do with it.

Looks like you are going with your interpretation of the text.

"Little less warg" is not an exact measurement of anything.

[Arthur Dayne's Honor]

Were you one of those boys who had an 'accident' involving the vacuum cleaner as a teenager? :P.

first off I'm 17 so I'm still technically a teenager, and secondly nope.

[yolkboy]

Please quote the text that says second life is always the exact same for everybody no matter what and that warg skills have nothing to do with it.

Looks like you are going with your interpretation of the text.

I've given you the quote, from two of the most powerful skinchangers in the books, showing what happens to someone in second life. You think Jon has special resistance, even though he's far less experienced than these two. Jon-Ghost is not going on a tour of The Lands of Always Winter.

[DaarioKnowsBest]

I've given you the quote, from two of the most powerful skinchangers in the books, showing what happens to someone in second life. You think Jon has special resistance, even though he's far less experienced than these two. Jon-Ghost is not going on a tour of The Lands of Always Winter.

You're quote was "little less warg, little more wolf"

That doesn't pass an exact scientific measurement anywhere, not even in Westeros

Certainly doesn't say no type of skill or individual traits make a difference.

[BitsOfBrains]

I'm going with what's in the text, it's you who thinks they know otherwise. Here...

This is Haggon and Varamyr, far more powerful and experienced than Jon.

Now show me where it says that the mind degradation in second life is relative to the power of the skinchanger. Otherwise you are making things up.

We don't know the half life of the second life.

Leave it at that.

[yolkboy]

We don't know the half life of the second life.

Leave it at that.

What we don know is that "every day" a warg is inside his wolf he loses his personality. It' a continual process that, given the 'every day', we can assume begins at the start of second life.

[Darth Visenya]

first off I'm 17 so I'm still technically a teenager, and secondly nope.

That's good to know :), although you've got 2 more Years to make up for it if you so desire.

[Arthur Dayne's Honor]

That's good to know :), although you've got 2 more Years to make up for it if you so desire.

you are very crass you know that?

[Raven in Winter]

A Ghost POV?, how would it go? gggrrrr, look a rabbit I'm going to chase it, ok now I'm going to sit here and lick my own balls?, no thanks.

Lol hilarious!

[BitsOfBrains]

What we don know is that "every day" a warg is inside his wolf he loses his personality. It' a continual process that, given the 'every day', we can assume begins at the start of second life.

Right but we don't know how long it will take and we don't know if stronger wargs can last longer.

Bran can still feel the CotF lurking in the birds and its probably been a while since they were in there.

Just saying we don't know how long it takes.

[Darth Visenya]

you are very crass you know that?

Only because I never get a chance to be normally :(.

[Benjen of the Kingsguard]

Maybe if Jon lives on through Ghost or something like that.

[Shadrich]

A Ghost POV?, how would it go? gggrrrr, look a rabbit I'm going to chase it, ok now I'm going to sit here and lick my own balls?, no thanks.

I doubt Jon would ever leave Ghost then.

[evita mgfs]

I've given you the quote, from two of the most powerful skinchangers in the books, showing what happens to someone in second life. You think Jon has special resistance, even though he's far less experienced than these two. Jon-Ghost is not going on a tour of The Lands of Always Winter.

:bang:

YOLKBOY: I always enjoy your posts, here and in other threads. I seldom ever give an opposing argument, but in this case, I am going to take issue with V6S’s POV wherein he reports knowledge from his teacher Haggon. According to our litigious society, Haggon’s information would be considered “hearsay” – in that “no one” has a way to authenticate with evidence the assertion.

The quote follows, and the reader has no antecedent for THEY; it is a vague reference:

“They say you forget,” Haggon had told him, a few weeks before his own death. “When the man’s flesh dies, his spirit lives on inside the beast, but every day his memory fades, and the beast becomes a little less a warg, a little more a wolf, until nothing of the man is left and only the beast remains.” Varamyr knew the truth of that . . .

Haggon would have no way of knowing about “faded memories” since the beast skinchanged for the final life would not be able to communicate this information to Haggon without a shared language. How could any skinchanger know this?

Moreover, if Haggon did have a worthy source, he would have quoted him or her, yes? Say, if a raven who had been skinchanged by a human for his or her final life? For instance, a raven able to speak might be able to pass the information on, but how would the raven know that he/she is going to forget his/her own memories? [i believe readers were told the ravens once delivered messages orally as opposed to written missives – as in The Hunger Games Trilogy, only in Collin’s novels, the birds are mockingbirds, blue jays, and genetically altered mockingjays. The ravens were the best source of such information being transferred from beast to man].

I do not think that the generally accepted [and unwritten?] rules of greenseeing, warging, and skinchanging will apply to Jon Snow and the other Stark children. I have the impression that the Stark siblings’ powers are beyond the norm when compared to the wildling greenseers, wargs, and skinchangers in general.

The direwolves are gifts sent to the Stark children by the gods – which means their talents cannot be measured with the average “green grading scale”. :dunno:

[V6S’s powers are not gifts from the gods, are they?] Arya can warg across the Narrow Sea and skinchange with a second skin, the cat. Ghost has a telepathic gift – he senses his other litter mates, or even worse, he “feels” their absence.

In ADwD, Lord Bran Stark himself makes his presence in the godswood known to Theon [and to the readers] through the expression on the weirwood’s face, through the murder of ravens, through the wind whispering through the leaves, calling “Theon” , and through the “grey” and “ghostly” mists commandeering the godswood.

Ghost is also the colors of the weirwoods – the CotF mark Ghost with red eyes and white fur because he is the conduit through which Ghost/Jon will connect with Bran and the “knowledge” the First Men knew forgotten now in WF. This “connection” will happen at the grove of nine weirwood trees where Jon took his NW vows. Jon will not need to travel to the cave.

REGARDING the HOBB excuse:

Writing from the POV of an animal is not unique to Hobbs. Nor is the “warg/skinchanging” gift. American writer Jack London’s most-loved novels are Call of the Wild and White Fang, both featuring narratives from wolf/dog POV’s. Bram Stoker’s Dracula features a vampire “count” who changes form, into a wolf, even a mist.

Martin’s work is only enriched by any homages he pays to other writers, and many writers include “thank you’s” in the form of tributes or deliberate references within the text of their works. [Doesn’t Martin pay tribute to one of his favorite authors in his name?]

I am looking forward to a Ghost/Jon POV.

I am just speculating – I am probably totally off base with my ideas, :dunce: but I am sharing my observations in the spirit of scholarly discussion.