Whats up with the Jorah dislike?

[Cersei the Great]

I've always liked Jorah and wish that somehow Sam will get Jeor's dying message to him.

[The Broke Howard Hughes]

Because every man has to learn at some point that the nice guy rarely gets the girl, the good looking jerk usually does. The girl usually regrets it in the long run but you learn to live with it. Jorah is a man grown, a former lord and has lost almost everything over a woman yet he hasn't learned from it at all. He'd do the same thing with Dany, he'd throw his entire life away on the hope she comes around. He's a fool. That's why I hate the guy, he needs to grow a pair and head back to Westeros.

[Ser Lepus]

Because every man has to learn at some point that the nice guy rarely gets the girl, the good looking jerk usually does. The girl usually regrets it in the long run but you learn to live with it. Jorah is a man grown, a former lord and has lost almost everything over a woman yet he hasn't learned from it at all. He'd do the same thing with Dany, he'd throw his entire life away on the hope she comes around. He's a fool. That's why I hate the guy, he needs to grow a pair and head back to Westeros.

Jorah isn't exactly a nice guy, to tell the truth.

He can't go back to Westeros unless he wishes to join the Night Watch, which right now is probably a death sentence.

[Ahura Mazda]

snip

Jorah has no true love for himself, that is why it is so easy to not love him.. I think.

Usually when one has so low self-esteem it's because it has undergone some traumatic experience in his childhood or have been surrounded for a long time by denigrating people who taught him he was worth nothing.. but as far as we can tell from NW LC behaviour in respect to Jon and the healthy mindset other Mormonts Women had, there is no real clue for that. It just seems that Jorah simply has no love for himself (plot reasons?) and just easily self-destructs/self-annihilate as soon as he finds some girl "to love". IMHO that ain't love, but a sick relationship/feeling born out of his own incapability of loving himself.. he reached such a state without Daenerys ever deluding him, that is particularly alarming!

[Mad Monkey]

Jorah isn't exactly a nice guy, to tell the truth.

He can't go back to Westeros unless he wishes to join the Night Watch, which right now is probably a death sentence.

Wasn't this the thread where they quoted the scene where Jorah advocates selling small children into sex slavery?

It kind of reminds me of an old Dave Barry quote, "A person who is nice to you but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person". Jorah is nice to Dany because he is attracted her, but almost everyone acts friendly towards people they are attracted to -- that doesn't make them nice. Daario is just as nice to Dany but no one talks him up as some kind of great guy.

[Jasta11]

Jorah isn't exactly a nice guy, to tell the truth.

He can't go back to Westeros unless he wishes to join the Night Watch, which right now is probably a death sentence.

Yeah, exactly. I never got a ''nice guy'' vibe from him. He's ruthless and fairly cunning (Dany's Astapor shenanigans stem mainly from his ideas). His romantic situation elicits sympathy to a degree (who hasn't felt something for someone who simply didn't respond in kind?), but the fact that he sold people into slavery and seems to have 0 regrets about it marks him firmly into morally grey territory at best at me.

He does seem to have a history of commiting way too much into relashionships that have little to no chances of happening.

[Iona]

Wasn't this the thread where they quoted the scene where Jorah advocates selling small children into sex slavery?

I think this is the same thread - I vaguely remember posting that quote after someone told me it was there. Felt a bit ill when I saw it and in my eyes Jorah went from being a really really sad guy to a really really disgusting one.

[Annara Snow]

Because every man has to learn at some point that the nice guy rarely gets the girl, the good looking jerk usually does. The girl usually regrets it in the long run but you learn to live with it.

Is that irony, or are you really, seriously advocating the Nice Guy views?

What every man has to learn at some point in order not to be a Nice Guy is that women do not owe him sex or love just because he's being friendly to them. If you're only nice to women because you expect to be rewarded by sex/romantic love, you're actually not nice at all, and not a real friend to that women or respectful of women; and if you react to rejection by blaming women for not having sex with you and for preferring some other guy, you're a misogynistic jerk. You're certainly not a real nice guy.

The irony of Nice Guys is that they're actually not nice guys at all. Many women like men who are genuinely nice, but being "nice" because you're hoping to score does not count. Chances are that the "jerks" that women prefer are no more jerks than the Nice Guy ; women probably prefer them because they happen to also have some appealing traits (say, confidence, sense of humor, conversational skills, and, yes, good looks; funny how the same men who complain about women preferring good-looking men to unattractive men don't see a problem with themselves preferring attractive women to unattractive women) and possibly because they don't come off that pathetic in trying to get into their pants. Or maybe they're not jerks at all,but the Nice Guy sees them that way, because, obviously, a guy that the girl he likes prefer = jerk.

And no, I don't think that the girls regret it in the long run. Maybe she'll regret being with the guy she was attracted to if he really turns out to be a jerk (or, if she knew he was a jerk to begin with, maybe she will not regret it because she never expected anything but to have a good time for a while). But she sure will not regret getting it on with the guy who was only nice to her to get into her pants, and who she wasn't even attracted to.

When it comes to Jorah, he's not a nice guy, not any more than Daario is. Neither of them is nice - except to Dany, who they are attracted to. And Dany never thought Daario was a nice guy, she just expected him to give her a damn good time, and he did.

Wasn't this the thread where they quoted the scene where Jorah advocates selling small children into sex slavery?

It kind of reminds me of an old Dave Barry quote, "A person who is nice to you but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person". Jorah is nice to Dany because he is attracted her, but almost everyone acts friendly towards people they are attracted to -- that doesn't make them nice. Daario is just as nice to Dany but no one talks him up as some kind of great guy.

Exactly.

[The Broke Howard Hughes]

Is that irony, or are you really, seriously advocating the Nice Guy views?

What every man has to learn at some point in order not to be a Nice Guy is that women do not owe him sex or love just because he's being friendly to them. If you're only nice to women because you expect to be rewarded by sex/romantic love, you're actually not nice at all, and not a real friend to that women or respectful of women; and if you react to rejection by blaming women for not having sex with you and for preferring some other guy, you're a misogynistic jerk. You're certainly not a real nice guy.

The irony of Nice Guys is that they're actually not nice guys at all. Many women like men who are genuinely nice, but being "nice" because you're hoping to score does not count. Chances are that the "jerks" that women prefer are no more jerks than the Nice Guy ; women probably prefer them because they happen to also have some appealing traits (say, confidence, sense of humor, conversational skills, and, yes, good looks; funny how the same men who complain about women preferring good-looking men to unattractive men don't see a problem with themselves preferring attractive women to unattractive women) and possibly because they don't come off that pathetic in trying to get into their pants. Or maybe they're not jerks at all,but the Nice Guy sees them that way, because, obviously, a guy that the girl he likes prefer = jerk.

And no, I don't think that the girls regret it in the long run. Maybe she'll regret being with the guy she was attracted to if he really turns out to be a jerk (or, if she knew he was a jerk to begin with, maybe she will not regret it because she never expected anything but to have a good time for a while). But she sure will not regret getting it on with the guy who was only nice to her to get into her pants, and who she wasn't even attracted to.

When it comes to Jorah, he's not a nice guy, not any more than Daario is. Neither of them is nice - except to Dany, who they are attracted to. And Dany never thought Daario was a nice guy, she just expected him to give her a damn good time, and he did.

Exactly.

Thats totally not what I said or meant. Sure I realize Jorah isn't a good person, I meant nice guy as in he'd treat his woman nice. I mean of course he isn't a good person he's in exile because he sold people onto slavery, that speaks for itself. But there is nothing about THAT that says he wouldn't be good to Dany. And of course no woman owes a guy sex, why would you even feel the need to say that? Nothing about what I said implies otherwise and if we weren't on the internet I'd be sort of offended by your implications.

But back on topic, Jorah spends his entire time fawning over Dany and trying to prove how good he'd be to her yet Darrio swoops in does practically nothing and she falls into bed with him. Jorah should know by now that young girls do this yet it still manages to break his heart. How is he surprised? He just doesn't seem to understand that there is nothing you can say or do to convince someone who isn't interested in you to give you a fair shake. He annoys me because even though he's gotten his pardon and is free to return home he's still holding out hope the girl falls for him. He's being an idiot and look what its cost him. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he doesn't end up killing her in a fit of passion and love/rage.

[Red Raven]

Its just hard for me to have any respect for him. Grabbing Tyrion and trying to drag him to Dany because that might earn her favor? Pathetic. Dude should have sold his sword to any of Dany's enemies when she threw him out. And while it would have made bad story, he should have taken Tyrion to Cersei. He kind of deserves what he gets. Hard to see where his story goes now.

I don't want Jorah to become another Criston Cole (who I hate with a passion).

He's a lovesick puppy and is pathetic for it, but I also think by trying to get back in Dany's graces he's trying to right at least one of the wrongs he's done in his life, even if he's going about it in an imperfect way with imperfect motives. I can't help but root for the guy (and I blame Iain Glen for that).

[Ser Lepus]

Thats totally not what I said or meant. Sure I realize Jorah isn't a good person, I meant nice guy as in he'd treat his woman nice. I mean of course he isn't a good person he's in exile because he sold people onto slavery, that speaks for itself. But there is nothing about THAT that says he wouldn't be good to Dany. And of course no woman owes a guy sex, why would you even feel the need to say that? Nothing about what I said implies otherwise and if we weren't on the internet I'd be sort of offended by your implications.

But back on topic, Jorah spends his entire time fawning over Dany and trying to prove how good he'd be to her yet Darrio swoops in does practically nothing and she falls into bed with him. Jorah should know by now that young girls do this yet it still manages to break his heart. How is he surprised? He just doesn't seem to understand that there is nothing you can say or do to convince someone who isn't interested in you to give you a fair shake. He annoys me because even though he's gotten his pardon and is free to return home he's still holding out hope the girl falls for him. He's being an idiot and look what its cost him. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he doesn't end up killing her in a fit of passion and love/rage.

Dany didn't hook with Dario until some time after dismissing Jorah. She didn't reciprocate Jorah's feelings, but Dario didn't have anything to do with that, she just didn't like him.

[Feliciano69]

What every man has to learn at some point in order not to be a Nice Guy is that women do not owe him sex or love just because he's being friendly to them. If you're only nice to women because you expect to be rewarded by sex/romantic love, you're actually not nice at all, and not a real friend to that women or respectful of women; and if you react to rejection by blaming women for not having sex with you and for preferring some other guy, you're a misogynistic jerk. You're certainly not a real nice guy.

The irony of Nice Guys is that they're actually not nice guys at all. Many women like men who are genuinely nice, but being "nice" because you're hoping to score does not count. Chances are that the "jerks" that women prefer are no more jerks than the Nice Guy ; women probably prefer them because they happen to also have some appealing traits (say, confidence, sense of humor, conversational skills, and, yes, good looks; funny how the same men who complain about women preferring good-looking men to unattractive men don't see a problem with themselves preferring attractive women to unattractive women) and possibly because they don't come off that pathetic in trying to get into their pants. Or maybe they're not jerks at all,but the Nice Guy sees them that way, because, obviously, a guy that the girl he likes prefer = jerk.

And no, I don't think that the girls regret it in the long run. Maybe she'll regret being with the guy she was attracted to if he really turns out to be a jerk (or, if she knew he was a jerk to begin with, maybe she will not regret it because she never expected anything but to have a good time for a while). But she sure will not regret getting it on with the guy who was only nice to her to get into her pants, and who she wasn't even attracted to.

When it comes to Jorah, he's not a nice guy, not any more than Daario is. Neither of them is nice - except to Dany, who they are attracted to. And Dany never thought Daario was a nice guy, she just expected him to give her a damn good time, and he did.

Exactly.

I see what you mean, but I believe that the frustration and anger that some men may feel when their advances aren't reciprocated happens because the target of their affection accepts someone else for what seems to be............."less", or perhaps even worse; typical case ? The woman does not want the nice guy but has consistently abusive relationships. This does not mean that a man deserves a woman's love on a "adequate behavior scale", not in a million years, but for my part, I can understand the reactions.

I'll object to the idea that "nice guys" want to "score" though, I've never seen that case in my personal experiences or at least heard it, read it, seen it, etc. from other types of sources, it seems to me like a fabrication deriving from a misunderstanding of the intentions with which some men approach women; in plain, there aren't any nice guys out there that only want sex, it's not a strategy that tends to work unless you're a REALLY shifty individual or want to get friendzoned, people who want to score know that they have to seduce their intended target, not being nice and polite and attentive for hours without end.

[Mad Monkey]

I see what you mean, but I believe that the frustration and anger that some men may feel when their advances aren't reciprocated is when the target of their affection accepts someone else for what seems to be............."less", or perhaps even worse; typical case ? The woman does not want the nice guy but has consistently abusive relationships.

Maybe that happens in other cases, but in this case there is nothing in the story that indicates that Daario is worse than Jorah. Daario isn't abusive (he's a little forward and presumptuous, but so is Jorah in ASOS, when he kisses her and when he insists that she is obligated to forgive him for informing against her. I can see Jorah's part in this in that he is one of Daenerys's most effective supporters, but that doesn't make him a nicer or a better person than Daario, who has also fought bravely for her cause. We see how Jorah treats people that he isn't attracted to and that's honestly in my view the best way to judge someone's goodness.

But to me that's not even the worst aspect of Jorah's relationship with Dany. For me, it's his pushiness. He thinks that he is entitled to dictate to her what her feelings toward him should be. Not just that she should love him, but that she has to forgive his trespasses. That's not a good foundation for a good relationship either husband-wife or lady and sworn sword. It's disrespectful in a fundamental level and even if Jorah's conclusions are right (indeed, Dany wants to forgive him) that entitlement issue would have continued to be a problem.

[Le Cygne]

But back on topic, Jorah spends his entire time fawning over Dany and trying to prove how good he'd be to her yet Darrio swoops in does practically nothing and she falls into bed with him. Jorah should know by now that young girls do this yet it still manages to break his heart. How is he surprised? He just doesn't seem to understand that there is nothing you can say or do to convince someone who isn't interested in you to give you a fair shake.

This is that line of thinking that a woman should bestow her love on a man others consider deserving, when really, it's entirely her choice who she loves, and can be for whatever reason she decides. It's very personal and all the whys and wherefores are entirely up to her, she owes no one an explanation.

[Florina Laufeyson]

Is that irony, or are you really, seriously advocating the Nice Guy views?

What every man has to learn at some point in order not to be a Nice Guy is that women do not owe him sex or love just because he's being friendly to them. If you're only nice to women because you expect to be rewarded by sex/romantic love, you're actually not nice at all, and not a real friend to that women or respectful of women; and if you react to rejection by blaming women for not having sex with you and for preferring some other guy, you're a misogynistic jerk. You're certainly not a real nice guy.

The irony of Nice Guys is that they're actually not nice guys at all. Many women like men who are genuinely nice, but being "nice" because you're hoping to score does not count. Chances are that the "jerks" that women prefer are no more jerks than the Nice Guy ; women probably prefer them because they happen to also have some appealing traits (say, confidence, sense of humor, conversational skills, and, yes, good looks; funny how the same men who complain about women preferring good-looking men to unattractive men don't see a problem with themselves preferring attractive women to unattractive women) and possibly because they don't come off that pathetic in trying to get into their pants. Or maybe they're not jerks at all,but the Nice Guy sees them that way, because, obviously, a guy that the girl he likes prefer = jerk.

And no, I don't think that the girls regret it in the long run. Maybe she'll regret being with the guy she was attracted to if he really turns out to be a jerk (or, if she knew he was a jerk to begin with, maybe she will not regret it because she never expected anything but to have a good time for a while). But she sure will not regret getting it on with the guy who was only nice to her to get into her pants, and who she wasn't even attracted to.

When it comes to Jorah, he's not a nice guy, not any more than Daario is. Neither of them is nice - except to Dany, who they are attracted to. And Dany never thought Daario was a nice guy, she just expected him to give her a damn good time, and he did.

Exactly.

This is that line of thinking that a woman should bestow her love on a man others consider deserving, when really, it's entirely her choice who she loves, and can be for whatever reason she decides. It's very personal and all the whys and wherefores are entirely up to her, she owes no one an explanation.

Odin smiles upon these posts. Bless you two.

[Broken Fox]

He's a creepy old douche who's in love with a girl that could be his granddaughter. He's loyal though, so I'll give him that. That's what I think of book Jorah anyway, show Jorah I think is alright. But he still needs to get over his high school crush on Dany. Pull it together, man.

[The Broke Howard Hughes]

This is that line of thinking that a woman should bestow her love on a man others consider deserving, when really, it's entirely her choice who she loves, and can be for whatever reason she decides. It's very personal and all the whys and wherefores are entirely up to her, she owes no one an explanation.

My whole point is that he should accept her feelings about him, they likely won't change, and move on with his life. Nowhere did I say she owes him as much as an explanation. As I said I have no idea where you guys are getting the impression otherwise. My issues are with his pouting and being a puppy dog. Those aren't her issues, not even her business actually, they're his.

And I'll repeat for all members of the fairer sex. What you do and with who is entirely up to you. Your body, your heart, your decision. That being said any guy who fawns all over a woman who clearly isn't interested in him romantically is a fool. Thats my point, not that she SHOULD care for him like he wants, but that he's an idiot for being heartsick that she doesn't.

[IRON BANK]

Alot of people talk about redemption arcs in this story. For this reality we have to look know further than Jorah Mormont. His getting sold into slavery is the pinnacle, Jorah now ( for a cliche) has a taste of his own medicine. Most characters coming into Dany's circle have tasted the expierience of slavery first hand and will move for some type of reform. This is why most people do not like Jorah before this experience Jorah is a turncoat who is led by emotion more than a critical thinking process. He could have been a better asset to Dany instead all he really wants is to get in her pants.