lancerman

People move based on what works best for the plot. The show isn't happening in real time. It gets evened out by just accepting not everything is chronological. For as much as people bring up LF, it would be worse if the show dragged everything out for 3 or 4 episodes when LF needs to get somewhere. Even the books play fast and loose with it sometimes.

I can't wait until Jon finds out he's a Targaryen and gets to ditch these losers.

Jon Aryn taught Ned to be a loveable idiot and Robert to be a drunk.

LOL. Am I wrong though? If the Red Wedding never happens, how does it end in anything but the Starks completely undermanned and outflanked on both sides. The only ways it ends at that point is Robb surrenders and the Starks lose all power forever, Robb decides to fight a prolonged losing battle that gets everyone killed and rips the North apart. Or someone says "you know what, this idiot just fucked us lets get out while we still can and save our own skin". Which is what Roose did in the most screwed way imaginable.

As far as the North knows of the Starks, -Robb led them into a war and then completely fucked it up to get his dick wet. Not to mention killed a Lord of one of his more respected banners. -The Bolton's are the current most powerful house and they have/had an alliance with the crown and the current LP of the Riverlands. - Sansa had been married to a Lannister and a Bolton. In the books just a Lannister. - Jon just let an army of savages that raided their land for hundreds of year into the North and for all they know is completely betraying the Night's Watch. It's pure sentimentality to side with the Starks at this point. Even if you aren't all that high on the Boltons they got the Lannisters/Tyrell's off your backs and got the Ironborn the fuck out of there. It's absolutely cheating to let the heroes win. Especially if it's stupid "Great Northern Conspiracy". The entire North should be irate at the Starks. At the very least, they shouldn't be rushing to help them over the Bolton's. The Bolton's hold the power. Why betray the current biggest House for a dying House that completely burned you? Because the North Remembers? The show is right. The only reason to join the Starks is if you absolutely believe the WW threat and see an urgent need to unite the North. If you don't, you're better off watching everything play out because you are dealing with assholes on one side and idiots on the other.

Take the Red Wedding off the table. The Frey's and Karstarks were NEVER going to rejoin the Starks army. The Lannister's changed the game with the Tyrell alliance. Now they had the Lannister's with the richest and best commander with the biggest army moving North on them, and the only place they could retreat was back into an Ironborn trap at home. It would have been a prolonged slaughter of Northerners. Instead they killed unreasonable key players at Wedding, gave a Northern House the keys to the North and told them to go clean up and take care of the Iron Born. In the long run, the Red Wedding is the only reason there is something left of the North.

Agree to disagree. If the Northerners all rallied around the Starks just because of their name after EVERYTHING that happened, it would be cheating to help the good guys. The Starks burned the Northerners. There is no reason to join up with them besides pure sentimentality. That's just not good enough anymore.

Robb was warned by Catelyn that Balon shouldn't be trusted. And quite frankly, that wasn't Theon's fault. Balon made up his mind whether Robb or Theon liked it or not. The only thing Theon was guilty of was going along with it, it would have made no difference if he went back to Robb, and the Ironborn would have just considered him a traitor anyways. Letting Jamie was go was a huge problem Cat had. But Robb pardoned her just so he could guilt trip her into forgiving him for marrying Jeyne, oh and then Robb double downed by killing Lord Karstark after. If you are Northerner you helped a bunch of morons win everyone battle they had, then in the homestretch make the dumbest moves they possibly could to blow it all up. Roose was a dick, but Robb gave him every reason to abandon ship. The rest of the Northerners were left high and dry.

I mean it's not wrong. I'm actually glad they brought that up. The whole North rallied around Robb, they died on the battlefield for him, they opened their homes up to an Ironborn invasion for him, then he blows up one of his most important alliances for some random girl he met on the battlefield, kills Lord Karstark, essentially makes all their sacrifices for nothing because they can't win anymore, and then those that stuck around got murdered at a wedding. It's even worse in the books because he married a girl from the Westerlands. Seriously screw Robb, he completely earned that death. Any right minded person would be infuriated with him.

Ned not listening to LF when he offered him a compromise is what got him killed. Ned decided he want to fight a losing battle. LF saw a lost cause. And to be fair, LF was probably right.

He's been playing at this awhile. He even got Cersie to sanction the attack in case she was still in power. So he will have the Vale under his thumb and the North owing him big time. The biggest region and one of the few intact armies.

Unfortunately it's the absolute smartest thing she can do. Her cousin is lord of the Vale, LF is the devil she knows, they have the one army outside of Dorne that hasn't been effected by the recent war. It's the smart play. If the Vale shows up, they don't just have a chance, it's a lock the win. More than a lock. They could have Sansa draw the battle plans up in the most ineffective way possible, and they still would have the numbers to take Winterfell. She'd be dumb not to at this point.

There's a reason why they made Sansa's letter look like a secret. She's writing LF, the Vale has an army that would automatically tip the scales in her favor. She's playing a dangerous game though and I could absolutely see her paying for it with her life.

I don't think it's fan service. I think fans take hold of one or two lines and then build it up into being more than a nice saying. A Stark must always be in Winterfell, oh must mean their is some magic going on. The North Remembers, big northern conspiracy.

I can't disagree more that nothing happened that advanced the plot. The Northern coalition is coming together, the Vale is being put in play. Jamie is taking control of the situation with the Blackfish, We found out what the gameplan was for Theon and Yara and where there storyline is headed, as you mentioned the Hound, we found out that Marg is playing everyone. Cersie's was the only plot that didn't "advance", it was more that her scene put her situation in perspective.

He didn't get people to follow him for his charisma. He's always been a bit anti social. Even from the first episode when he pissed everyone at Castle Black off because he was beating up on untrained lowborns. It was his actions that got people to like him. He needs someone savvy enough to win friends though in this situation.

Maybe it's because of the Riverrun scene and the battle camps, but this felt like a back to basics episode. Very reminiscent of season 2-3 in tone. Jamie finally got his shit together and is being useful. Thank god. The northern plot was good and atleast showed progress, Sansa wrote the Vale by the way, so I feel like LF is primed to fuck shit up. Hound scenes were nice to see him back, but they probably should have set it up better. Showed a few episodes of him happier before they Batman'ed him back into the game. Though it was so obvious, I get why they didn't. Scene with Arya and the Waif was so telegraphed, but the brutality made it effective, good babyface in peril scene. The Iron Island scene was gratuitous except for the lone line about getting Dany to join them. Alfie still kills his Theon scenes. Good to see Blackfish again. Cersie is also fucked many ways from Sunday. This was another set up episode but in a good way. Didn't drag like last week. Didn't have pointless filler like the Dany scene. Plot moved, pieces were put in and out of play. Good character moments. 7.

Then lets agree to disagree. Everything LSH has been leading up to this Jamie/Brienne thing. That's right now the centerpiece to the LSH storyline and actually the first consequential things she's done besides exist. Aside from that, all we really got was the LSH reveal and some Freys being killed. Who cares if they hold that off until her plot builds up more? She would have been doing nothing for 2-3 seasons and we would have been getting filler to remind us she existed.

Well the difference is that the only useful portions of Aegon's story hinged on Tyrion's journey to Mereen and Doran's plot. Both are past the point of being valid. LSH's central storyline up to this point was Jamie and Brienne in the Riverlands. That's just starting. At this point the only thing with LSH that we didn't get was the epilogue to ASOS.

5. It was a set up episode. Expected after how fast paced the last 3 were. Didn't really care for the Dany scene at the end. Didn't have a purpose. Atleast we got set up for the Jamie in the Riverlands plot, Lord Tarly, Sam gets a Valyrian steel sword. Benjen's rescue scene was well shot, as was the vision of Aerys The Frey scene was redundant. Like they wanted to remind everyone of them. Weakest episode this season.

You made a comment about the poll not meaning anything because less people watch the show. I responded that it is a flat out lie that less people watch the show. If you can't follow a response to your own comment, that's your failing. The issue with you is that you are trying to prop up your opinion that the show is bad and to do so you question the intelligence of the show runners, you've questioned the intelligence of the people who liked it, you questioned whether they read the books, all so you could try to say that their opinion isn't relevant. And my response to that is, why is it so one-sided? The majority of critics, the majority of people who talk about it, the majority of the most hardcore fan community that discuses it. So what is it that is sooooo compelling about your take that it renders that side meaningless and every barometer that overwhelmingly disagrees with your opinion meaningless. You couldn't even help yourself. You had to pull a, "won't change the reality that Got is a poorly written show". Most people don't think that. So why is that the reality? Because your so special and smarter than the rest of us that your take is the only factually one? Cause that's only conclusion you can draw from a statement like that. But then you'll play victim again and act like your being persecuted for your opinion...which you try to pass off as fact... and subtlety question the intelligence of those that disagree with you. There wouldn't be a problem if those with a negative opinion hadn't long since taken this condescending elitist attitude and make snide remarks about the intelligence of those who like the show or question their fandom as if they never read the books. Then those same people are the most sensitive and take a victim mentality when that's thrown back at them. If the criticisms were "I just didn't enjoy the episode" that would be one thing. It's constant bitching and moaning a and bashing of the showrunners, questioning their intelligence, and the people who like it. It's the only group of people that feel entitled to bash the creators of the show, who needed their own thread for every episode where they could be shielded from debate. Nobody would care if someone came in here said "man I just didn't like tonight's episode, for x y and z, didn't do it for me". But it's "this is the stupidest show ever, the creators suck and are dumb&dumb, I can't believe their are people (who obviously don't know the source material) that eat this up, lol at them". If someone went in the books forums and acted that way about GRRM and all of us who liked the books , they would be rightly criticized and probably deemed a troll. And it's been happening for quite awhile, and plenty of people have gotten fed up with it.

See that would make sense if the show experienced massive decreases in viewership. But it didn't. So there again that's a baseless statement. There is no proof that their is a statistically significant amount of people that influenced the amount of people voting.

A rating isn't an indication of perfection, it is an indication of enjoyment. It's very personal and subjective.

The majority of people here liked it, in an overwhelming majority. The majority of critics liked it in an overwhelming majority. If you go by the public and social media the majority of people who watched it liked it in an overwhelming majority. Your posit is one of those statements where people who didn't like the show are trying to justify the overwhelming disagreement with their opinion as not being as legitimate because the people voting positively are somehow incapable of looking at it with a critical eye. Yet it falls when you apply it to every barometer to how you would judge the show to be received. This forum is the Game of Thrones foruml. It is also a section of a site of the most hardcore critical fans in the world for this material. And of the 500 fans on this site of hardcore fans who vote, just shy of 400 said the episode was a 7 or above. So why is it the vast majority of positive criticism that is being questioned?

You do realize that GRRM once juxtaposed a house with a blue beetle sigil and a green arrow sigil side by side just to make an inside comic book reference, right? Or the time he created a piece of history to reference his favorite team winning the Super a Bowl. Its not a big deal.