Clegane'sPup

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  1. http://www.rollingstone.com/tv/news/george-r-r-martin-on-who-killed-joffrey-20140414 Martin: In the books — and I make no promises, because I have two more books to write, and I may have more surprises to reveal — the conclusion that the careful reader draws is that Joffrey was killed by the Queen of Thorns, using poison from Sansa’s hair net, so that if anyone actually did think it was poison, then Sansa would be blamed for it. Sansa had certainly good reason for it. I’m a bit wary of written interviews. I would rather hear Martin speak the words. I have a couple nitpicks about the above statement. One is that he may have more surprises to reveal. The other is the remark about what conclusion the careful reader draws. That is not a confirmation of anything, in my opinion. If you or anyone would/could provide a link to the entire interview I would appreciate it. Thanks. And if you or anyone could supply an interpreter to Martin's ambiguous remarks I would be grateful.
  2. I can’t add anything about Taena. I didn’t pay close attention to that character. The rest of this post is me yammering about various ideas not directed at you particular. Thanks btw for being easy with me. It may not be explicitly stated but it appears that Shae did have opportunity to have her fingers on Sansa’s hair net. Most likely, an irrelevant piece of trivia that means nothing. A Storm of Swords - Tyrion VIII Shae was helping Sansa with her hair when they entered the bedchamber. Joy and grief, he thought when he beheld them there together. <snip> . Shae had arranged her hair artfully in a delicate silver net winking with dark purple gemstones. That wedding chalice is rather large, three feet tall. A Storm of Swords - Sansa IV Lord Mace Tyrell came forward to present his gift: a golden chalice three feet tall, with two ornate curved handles and seven faces glittering with gemstones. "Seven faces for Your Grace's seven kingdoms," the bride's father explained. He showed them how each face bore the sigil of one of the great houses: ruby lion, emerald rose, onyx stag, silver trout, blue jade falcon, opal sun, and pearl direwolf. As to the wine that @John Suburbs mentions, it does change colors. A Storm of Swords - Tyrion VIII "Let the cups be filled!" Joffrey proclaimed, when the gods had been given their due. His cupbearer poured a whole flagon of dark Arbor red into the golden wedding chalice that Lord Tyrell had given him that morning. The king had to use both hands to lift it. A Storm of Swords - Tyrion VIII But suddenly he felt Ser Garlan's hand on his sleeve. "My lord, beware," the knight warned. "The king." Tyrion turned in his seat. Joffrey was almost upon him, red-faced and staggering, wine slopping over the rim of the great golden wedding chalice he carried in both hands. "Your Grace," was all he had time to say before the king upended the chalice over his head. The wine washed down over his face in a red torrent. Trivia information below. A Storm of Swords - Tyrion VIII "Bend down and pick up my chalice." Tyrion did as he was bid, but as he reached for the handle Joff kicked the chalice through his legs. "Pick it up! Are you as clumsy as you are ugly?" He had to crawl under the table to find the thing. "Good, now fill it with wine." He claimed a flagon from a serving girl and filled the goblet three-quarters full. "No, on your knees, dwarf." Kneeling, Tyrion raised up the heavy cup, wondering if he was about to get a second bath. But Joffrey took the wedding chalice one-handed, drank deep, and set it on the table. "You can get up now, Uncle." The chalice is placed upon the table, the King & his bride go off to cut the pie and after the whoopla return to the chalice. A Storm of Swords - Tyrion VIII "The king's chalice was on the table where he'd left it. Tyrion had to climb back onto his chair to reach it. Joff yanked it from his hands and drank long and deep, his throat working as the wine ran purple down his chin. "My lord," Margaery said, "we should return to our places. Lord Buckler wants to toast us." The wine was red when Joffrey doused Tyrion. When Joff ^ came back to his chalice after cutting the ceremonial pie he took a long drink from his chalice ^. The wine runs purple down his chin ^. Joff starts talking and eating Tyrion’s pie. Then Joff starts coughing. A Storm of Swords - Tyrion VIII "My uncle hasn't eaten his pigeon pie." Holding the chalice one-handed, Joff jammed his other into Tyrion's pie. "It's ill luck not to eat the pie," he scolded as he filled his mouth with hot spiced pigeon. "See, it's good." Spitting out flakes of crust, he coughed and helped himself to another fistful. "Dry, though. Needs washing down." Joff took a swallow of wine and coughed again, more violently. "I want to see, kof, see you ride that, kof kof, pig, Uncle. I want . . ." His words broke up in a fit of coughing. The above is not the reaction Cressen experienced. What I just realized is Cressen had a regular size cup while Joff had a three foot chalice. The poison would have been diluted by volume but still as deadly. A Storm of Swords - Tyrion VIII Margaery looked at him with concern. "Your Grace?" "It's, kof, the pie, noth—kof, pie." Joff took another drink, or tried to, but all the wine came spewing back out when another spate of coughing doubled him over. His face was turning red. "I, kof, I can't, kof kof kof kof . . ." The chalice slipped from his hand and dark red wine went running across the dais. <snip> Beneath the skin, the muscles stood out hard as stone. A Storm of Swords - Tyrion VIII The boy's only thirteen. Joffrey was making a dry clacking noise, trying to speak. His eyes bulged white with terror, and he lifted a hand . . . <snip> . But his eyes fell on the wedding chalice, forgotten on the floor. He [Tyrion] went and scooped it up. There was still a half-inch of deep purple wine in the bottom of it. Tyrion considered it a moment, then poured it on the floor. I don’t remember if it is said that Joff’s face turned purple. Tyrion did say about Joff, “Beneath the skin, the muscles stood out hard as stone” and Cressen did say, “it would make the muscles of a man's throat clench tighter than any fist.” A Clash of Kings - Prologue Dissolved in wine, it would make the muscles of a man's throat clench tighter than any fist, shutting off his windpipe. They said a victim's face turned as purple as the little crystal seed from which his death was grown, but so too did a man choking on a morsel of food. Now that I have had my ahha! moment that Cressen had a regular size cup whereas Joffrey had a three foot tall chalice I think I will stfu for a while.
  3. I am at a disadvantage when it comes to long discussions so please cut me some slack. I do however think that there are multiple plots going on at the wedding. Trying to bring my ideas into a coherent post using text is my dilemma. That said, Cresson said the maesters of the Citadel knew the way of it. It was made from a certain plant that grew only on the islands of the Jade Sea, half a world away. The leaves had to be aged, and soaked in a wash of limes and sugar water and certain rare spices from the Summer Isles. Afterward they could be discarded, but the potion must be thickened with ash and allowed to crystallize. The process was slow and difficult, the necessaries costly and hard to acquire. The alchemists of Lys knew the way of it, though, and the Faceless Men of Braavos . . . and the maesters of his order as well, though it was not something talked about beyond the walls of the Citadel. Cressen had a dusty vile containing ------ A dozen crystals, no larger than seeds, rattled across the parchment he'd been reading. I don’t know if Pycelle had any Strangler poison. Below is what Tyrion observed in Pycelle’s chambers. Yet, Pycelle later accuses Tyrion of taking it from his chambers. A Clash of Kings - Tyrion IV And it seemed to Tyrion that the gold and silver and platinum links far outnumbered those of baser metals. <snip> The maester's medicines made an impressive display; dozens of pots sealed with wax, hundreds of stoppered vials, as many milkglass bottles, countless jars of dried herbs, each container neatly labeled in Pycelle's precise hand. An orderly mind, Tyrion reflected, and indeed, once you puzzled out the arrangement, it was easy to see that every potion had its place. And such interesting things. He noted sweetsleep and nightshade, milk of the poppy, the tears of Lys, powdered greycap, wolfsbane and demon's dance, basilisk venom, blindeye, widow's blood . . . At the trial Pycelle said Tyrion stole many concoctions from his shelves. If I believe Tyrion he took a concoction that gave his sister an upset tummy (diarrhea) Pycelle accuses Tyrion of taking multiple elixirs from his chambers and Pycelle accuses Tyrion of taking the strangler from his stash. A Storm of Swords - Tyrion IX On the table were laid a number of small jars. Pycelle was pleased to put a name to each. "Greycap," he said in a quavery voice, "from the toadstool. Nightshade, sweetsleep, demon's dance. This is blindeye. Widow's blood, this one is called, for the color. A cruel potion. It shuts down a man's bladder and bowels, until he drowns in his own poisons. This wolfsbane, here basilisk venom, and this one the tears of Lys. Yes. I know them all. The Imp Tyrion Lannister stole them from my chambers, when he had me falsely imprisoned." "Pycelle," Tyrion called out, risking his father's wrath, "could any of these poisons choke off a man's breath?" "No. For that, you must turn to a rarer poison. When I was a boy at the Citadel, my teachers named it simply the strangler." "But this rare poison was not found, was it?" "No, my lord." Pycelle blinked at him. "You used it all to kill the noblest child the gods ever put on this good earth." That is part of the reason I think multiple plots are going on at the wedding. One part is LF getting Sansa. One part is Tyrell getting rid of Joffrey. One part is Pycelle and possibly Tywin getting rid of Tyrion.
  4. Ummmmmm, it is real easy to check stuff out with that wonderful search site. Shame, shame, shame I say, mixing dat stuffies like dat. I hope your English paper includes citations else the teacher might be a bit miffed. A Dance with Dragons - Jon XIII "Let him go," Jon shouted. "Wun Wun, let him go." Wun Wun did not hear or did not understand. The giant was bleeding himself, with sword cuts on his belly and his arm. He swung the dead knight against the grey stone of the tower, again and again and again, until the man's head was red and pulpy as a summer melon. The knight's cloak flapped in the cold air. Of white wool it had been, bordered in cloth-of-silver and patterned with blue stars. Blood and bone were flying everywhere. Men poured from the surrounding keeps and towers. Northmen, free folk, queen's men … "Form a line," Jon Snow commanded them. "Keep them back. Everyone, but especially the queen's men." The dead man was Ser Patrek of King's Mountain; his head was largely gone, but his heraldry was as distinctive as his face. Jon did not want to risk Ser Malegorn or Ser Brus or any of the queen's other knights trying to avenge him.
  5. I dunna know. good luck with getting answers to those questions
  6. I agree. Personal opinion and projection.. Sandor didn't kill Gregor because it would have been a cheap shot. Easy and unfulfilling. Arya leaving the Hound to die a long painful death, I was pissed.
  7. To the SanSan wishful romantic shippers I say, no. Sansa is 12 (?) years old. Sandor is approximately 29-30 years of age. Let Sansa continue to dream her knight and lady dreams. Lady Lannister is after all moving on learning how to use her female 12-13 year old wiles to hook Harry per LF's request.
  8. Here’s the thing with the poison. Show watchers think it was a liquid in a vile attached to a necklace worn around the neck of Sansa. Book readers think that the poison crystals are mounted on a hair net given to Sansa via Dontos from LF. The description of her hair net: A Clash of Kings - Sansa VIII " Ser Dontos fumbled in his pouch and drew out a silvery spiderweb, dangling it between his thick fingers. It was a hair net of fine-spun silver, the strands so thin and delicate the net seemed to weigh no more than a breath of air when Sansa took it in her fingers. Small gems were set wherever two strands crossed, so dark they drank the moonlight. "What stones are these?" "Black amethysts from Asshai. The rarest kind, a deep true purple by daylight." The stranger poison as described by Cressen: A Clash of Kings - Prologue On the bottom shelf behind a row of salves in squat clay jars he found a vial of indigo glass, no larger than his little finger. <snip> he pulled the stopper and spilled out the vial's contents. A dozen crystals, no larger than seeds, rattled across the parchment he'd been reading. They shone like jewels in the candlelight, so purple that the maester found himself thinking that he had never truly seen the color before.<snip> He touched one of the crystals lightly with the tip of his little finger. Such a small thing to hold the power of life and death. It was made from a certain plant that grew only on the islands of the Jade Sea, half a world away. The leaves had to be aged, and soaked in a wash of limes and sugar water and certain rare spices from the Summer Isles. Afterward they could be discarded, but the potion must be thickened with ash and allowed to crystallize. The process was slow and difficult, the necessaries costly and hard to acquire. The alchemists of Lys knew the way of it, though, and the Faceless Men of Braavos . . . and the maesters of his order as well, though it was not something talked about beyond the walls of the Citadel. All the world knew that a maester forged his silver link when he learned the art of healing—but the world preferred to forget that men who knew how to heal also knew how to kill. I have a problem with the poison being in the hair net. The reason being either all the sparkles were poison, making it a verra expensive hair net or a person would need to know exactly which sparkle was the poison. Yes, it is possible a person could buy the poison. It would be hard to come by (rare) and expensive. Or a person could simply go to their maester’s supply shelf.
  9. What I was trying to bring to light is that Sandor had the opportunity to kill Gregor. He didn't do it. Why didn't he do it? Sandor stepped into a situation where Gregor was going to kill Loras. Gregor turned his rage upon Sandor. Sandor deflected Gregor's blows. Sandor had opportunity to kill Gregor, yet he did not.
  10. Trivia to add to the discussion. LF was in charge of customs in the port Gulltown before he went to KL. I would think that he knows how to move merchandise. He would also know ship captains and ship schedules and perhaps kept up those contacts while he lived in KL. I have to wonder if the Merling King was the ship that transported the jousting dwarfs. When LF leaves KL to go off to woo Lysa it is written: A Storm of Swords - Tyrion III How soon might you leave?" "On the morrow, if the winds permit. There's a Braavosi galley standing out past the chain, taking on cargo by boat. The Merling King. I'll see her captain about a berth." "You will miss the king's wedding," said Mace Tyrell. What ship is waiting for Dontos and Sansa after Joffrey’s death? Yep, the Merling King and old Oswell is aboard. This ship also turns up again later in an Alyane chapter in FfC. A Storm of Swords - Sansa VI Off the bow of the Merling King stretched a bare and stony strand, windswept, treeless, and uninviting. Even so, it made a welcome sight. They had been a long while clawing their way back on course. The last storm had swept them out of sight of land, and sent such waves crashing over the sides of the galley that Sansa had been certain they were all going to drown. Two men had been swept overboard, she had heard old Oswell saying, and another had fallen from the mast and broken his neck. A Feast for Crows - Alayne II The times grow ever more interesting, my sweet, and when the times are interesting you can never have too many swords. The Merling King's returned to Gulltown, and old Oswell had some tales to tell." While LF is an opportunist, it also seems that he has a, I dunna know, network.
  11. After the tourney at Harrenhal there is no mention where Benjen or Howland go. There is however mention that a NW recruiter was present at the feast. Here is Meera’s tale of the feast at Harrenhal. I’m going to insert [] into the text. A Storm of Swords - Bran II "That evening there was to be a feast in Harrenhal, to mark the opening of the tourney, and the she-wolf [Lyanna] insisted that the lad [Howland] attend. He [Howland] was of high birth, with as much a right to a place on the bench as any other man. She was not easy to refuse, this wolf maid [Lyanna], so he [Howland] let the young pup [Benjen] find him garb suitable to a king's feast, and went up to the great castle. "Under Harren's roof he [Howland] ate and drank with the wolves [Stark’s], and many of their sworn swords besides, barrowdown men and moose and bears and mermen. The dragon prince [Rhaegar] sang a song so sad it made the wolf maid [Lyanna] sniffle, but when her pup brother [Benjen] teased her for crying she poured wine over his head. A black brother spoke, asking the knights to join the Night's Watch. The storm lord [Robert] drank down the knight of skulls and kisses [?] in a wine-cup war. The crannogman [Howland] saw a maid with laughing purple eyes [Ashara] dance with a white sword [Barry], a red snake [Obeyrn], and the lord of griffins [Jon Con], and lastly with the quiet wolf [Eddard] . . . but only after the wild wolf [Brandon] spoke to her on behalf of a brother too shy to leave his bench. It appears that rather than become one of Eddard’s bannermen, Benjen decided to become a man of the NW. There is no reason for Benjen the third son to join the NW if what Jon believed is true. Benjen, according to what Jon believes could have been one of Eddard’s bannermen with a holdfast of his own. A Game of Thrones - Jon I He had thought on it long and hard, lying abed at night while his brothers slept around him. Robb would someday inherit Winterfell, would command great armies as the Warden of the North. Bran and Rickon would be Robb's bannermen and rule holdfasts in his name. His sisters Arya and Sansa would marry the heirs of other great houses and go south as mistress of castles of their own.
  12. The below is the Hound vs Jaime in the tourney joust. A Game of Thrones - Eddard VII Sandor Clegane dropped his visor with an audible clang and took up his position. Ser Jaime tossed a kiss to some woman in the commons, gently lowered his visor, and rode to the end of the lists. Both men couched their lances. The Hound leaned forward as he rode, his lance rock steady, but Jaime shifted his seat deftly in the instant before impact. Clegane's point was turned harmlessly against the golden shield with the lion blazon, while his own hit square. Wood shattered, and the Hound reeled, fighting to keep his seat. The Hound just managed to stay in his saddle. He jerked his mount around hard and rode back to the lists for the second pass. Jaime Lannister tossed down his broken lance and snatched up a fresh one, jesting with his squire. The Hound spurred forward at a hard gallop. Lannister rode to meet him. This time, when Jaime shifted his seat, Sandor Clegane shifted with him. Both lances exploded, and by the time the splinters had settled, a riderless blood bay was trotting off in search of grass while Ser Jaime Lannister rolled in the dirt, golden and dented. Compare the above to the below. It appears to me that yes the participants want to win. They are also there for money and accolades. A tourney joust is for entertainment not a fight to the death. Actually, I like to think that Loras shite his britches or is that armor. Later in the story Brienne whooped up on the little arse. A Game of Thrones - Eddard VII It all happened so fast. The Knight of Flowers was shouting for his own sword as Ser Gregor knocked his squire aside and made a grab for the reins of his horse. The mare scented blood and reared. Loras Tyrell kept his seat, but barely. Ser Gregor swung his sword, a savage two-handed blow that took the boy in the chest and knocked him from the saddle. The courser dashed away in panic as Ser Loras lay stunned in the dirt. But as Gregor lifted his sword for the killing blow, a rasping voice warned, "Leave him be," and a steel-clad hand wrenched him away from the boy. The Mountain pivoted in wordless fury, swinging his longsword in a killing arc with all his massive strength behind it, but the Hound caught the blow and turned it, and for what seemed an eternity the two brothers stood hammering at each other as a dazed Loras Tyrell was helped to safety. Thrice Ned saw Ser Gregor aim savage blows at the hound's-head helmet, yet not once did Sandor send a cut at his brother's unprotected face. There you have it. Gregor aimed savage blows at the hound’s head helmet. Yet not once did Sandor aim for Gregor’s unprotected head.
  13. The Hound as I read the character is a realist and a cynic. A cynic is a person who believes that people are motivated purely by self-interest rather than acting for honorable or unselfish reasons. To the SanSan wishful romantic shippers I say, no. Sansa is 12 (?) years old. Sandor is approximately 29-30 years of age. He knows the way of the Lannister’s and the aristocracy (the highest class in certain societies, especially those holding hereditary titles or offices) since he is Joffrey’s dog and is privy to some of their daily activities. The Hound is a fearsome spectacle to behold. He did not get the rep by being kind and gentle. He is a warrior. A killing machine. Which serves his purpose to survive. The common/small folk fear him. I do see Sandor having a weak spot for small and helpless individuals, as in Tyrion, Sansa and Arya. Else he would not warn them of the perils that they may face. To put my words into a more modern thought--- Gregor is the bully, Sandor is not. Sandor survived his childhood ordeal and he can if he wants to, warn people of the harm that may come their way. That is what he does with the Stark girls and Tyrion. I once typed that if Martin kills off Ghost I would throw the book out the door. If Martin has Sandor die saving loose lip Sansa I will burn the book. Let Sansa continue to dream her knight and lady dreams. Lady Lannister is after all moving on learning how to use her female 12-13 year old wiles to hook Harry per LF's request. As I typed earlier in this thread I think the Hound stepped in to aid Loras because a tourney joust is not a killing field. Through trickery Loras was able to unseat the Mountain. When Gregor was unhorsed he called for his sword. Sandor seems to have come to the aid of a 16-17 year old. Sandor couldn't do anything about the Mountain thrusting a lance through a jousting novice's throat. Very important in the Gregor Sandor sword fight is that Sandor had opportunity to slice Gregor’s head in half. He didn’t do it.
  14. Do you know who Ricky Gervais is? The Office thing that started in the UK and worked its way to US. I’m using his voice. There haven’t been any good catches since 2012. This is 2017. I got nuttin'.
  15. Yes, I have thought of this. For the fan base that would mean Sandor has some sort of moral, ethical, spiritual code,
  16. If LSH has any memories of Cat, she knows that Jaime was the one who tossed Bran since Jaime confessed it. She would also know that Roose skewered Robb. Depending on what Brienne may or may not have said while in captivity LSH may know that Bolton's Arya is not Arya.
  17. Why did Sandor come to Loras’ aid? The Hound surely loathes his brother and Loras won by trickery but Loras unhorsed Gregor in a joust during a tourney. That is the point of the joust. Eddard told Sansa the jousters were using tourney lances that splinter upon impact so no one is hurt. In the below Eddard quote it appears that Sandor finds it humorous that the Mountain was unhorsed by Loras. A Game of Thrones - Eddard VII Ned heard applause, cheers, whistles, shocked gasps, excited muttering, and over it all the rasping, raucous laughter of the Hound. <snip> Ser Gregor Clegane disentangled himself and came boiling to his feet. He wrenched off his helm and slammed it down onto the ground. His face was dark with fury and his hair fell down into his eyes. "My sword," he shouted to his squire My thought is that Sandor stepped in to assist Loras because a tourney joust is not a killing field. Like him or not, he doesn’t sugar coat stuff. A Game of Thrones - Sansa II That boy today, his second joust, oh, that was a pretty bit of business. You saw that, did you? Fool boy, he had no business riding in this company. No money, no squire, no one to help him with that armor. That gorget wasn't fastened proper. You think Gregor didn't notice that? You think Ser Gregor's lance rode up by chance, do you? Pretty little talking girl, you believe that, you're empty-headed as a bird for true. Gregor's lance goes where Gregor wants it to go.
  18. In the below quote from a book released in 2014 the false spring lasted less than two moon turns which I equate to less than two months. The moon turn thing can be debated, argued and nitpicked to death. In the below quote it says Rhaegar & half a dozen friends with the coming of the new year were traveling around and fell upon Lyanna not 10 leagues (approximately 30 miles) from Harrenhal. “Fell upon” is also open to interpretation. Gyldayn’s history takes precedence over Yondel’s. Gyldayn’s history is another book in the making. The World of Ice and Fire - The Fall of the Dragons: The Year of the False Spring The False Spring of 281 AC lasted less than two turns. As the year drew to a close, winter returned to Westeros with a vengeance. On the last day of the year, snow began to fall upon King's Landing, and a crust of ice formed atop the Blackwater Rush. The snowfall continued off and on for the best part of a fortnight, by which time the Blackwater was hard frozen, and icicles draped the roofs and gutters of every tower in the city. As cold winds hammered the city, King Aerys II turned to his pyromancers, charging them to drive the winter off with their magics. Huge green fires burned along the walls of the Red Keep for a moon's turn. Prince Rhaegar was not in the city to observe them, however. Nor could he be found in Dragonstone with Princess Elia and their young son, Aegon. With the coming of the new year, the crown prince had taken to the road with half a dozen of his closest friends and confidants, on a journey that would ultimately lead him back to the riverlands. Not ten leagues from Harrenhal, Rhaegar fell upon Lyanna Stark of Winterfell, and carried her off, lighting a fire that would consume his house and kin and all those he loved—and half the realm besides. But that tale is too well-known to warrant repeating here. end Because I have access to a search site I was able to find that above information. I do not purchase extra ASOIAF material. I go to a library and check the book out, read it and return it. The complimentary material is interesting and fun, but the ASOIAF books/novels/saga must stand on its own if Martin wants to achieve acclaim for his work. Merely my opinion. Everyone has one. Where was Brandon when he received word of Lyanna’s [fill in the blank]? I pulled the below information from asoiaf westeros wiki which tells me Brandon left RR to join with his father who was coming down from the north. The first citation being the app (which appears to be a 2012 release) and the second citation being CoK chapter 55 Cat VII. From Riverrun, Brandon left to join his father's wedding party, coming down from the north.[22] They were on their way again back to Riverrun for the wedding when word reached Brandon of Lyanna's supposed abduction by Prince Rhaegar Targaryen.[23] George R. R. Martin's A World of Ice and Fire, Catelyn Tully. It looks like after the tourney at Harrenhal Brandon returned to River Run. Eddard returned to Eyrie. Lyanna stayed at Harrenhal. No mention of where Benjen or Howland went. With that stuff in mind I can understand why people could/world think that Benjen may have information about Lyanna’s [fill in the blank]. Especially since Benjen disappeared. Then again maybe Benjen’s character was merely a convince character helping Jon to get to the Wall.
  19. No one has given me any feedback on the app quote yet. Eddard wouldn’t have a regent .After the death of his father & brother Eddard became Lord WF. WF would have a castellan with Benjen filling in as Bran did for Robb. There are no time line references between the false spring in 281 and 283 when the Rebellion ended. It is easy to look at the dates and do some subtracting. Two years, except when I start trying to figure out what happened when between the time of the false spring and Raeghar's tower of Joy it gets wonky. I thought when Lyanna was [fill in the blank] she was near Harrenhal. I've been wrong before. Interesting. Brandon bloodied LF after the Harrenhal tourney? Whoa, I had not thought of that. I assumed it was before. My curiosity has been aroused because this ties in with Hoster working Lysa into the deal to provide troops to support the rebellion. I’m thinking the Tully girls were married after the Battle of the Bells/Stoney Sept. Iffy, but yes, the raven or rider would need to find Rickard with the summons from the King to come answer for his sons behavior. When he arrived at KL both he and Brandon were killed and the King called for Eddard’s and Robert’s head. Yes, since he had to make his way over hill and dale and water and land to get to WF to call the banners after the death of his father and brother. And as a bonus the story told to Davos about Eddard getting the fisherman’s daughter preggers. Ummmm, I dunna know, but yes, by time all that stuff happened Benjen would be at WF.
  20. I don’t have the app. Hopefully someone can/will verify this ---- Brandon left Riverrun to meet up with papa Stark who was on his way from WF to Riverrun to attend Brandon’s & Cat’s wedding. Brandon received the news of Lyanna’s [fill in the blank]. It is not clear whether Benjen, after the tourney at Harrenhal returned to WF or stayed with Lyanna. If Benjen was with Lyanna, if they were on their way to RR for Brandon’s wedding when Lyanna was [fill in the blank] Benjen may have information of what happened. If Benjen was with Laynna it is possible that Benjen was the one to carry the word to Brandon of Lyanna’s [fill in the blank]. Add Howland into that mess and have fine pot of goulash. It could also be said that Lord Stark didn’t attend the Harrenhal tourney because he was the Stark in WF and Lord Stark did not leave WF to attend the wedding of Brandon until Benjen returned home making Benjen the Stark in WF until Lord Rickard returned. There is also the remark Benjen made to Jon during King Robert’s feast “Jon felt anger rise inside him. "I'm not your son!" Benjen Stark stood up. "More's the pity." He put a hand on Jon's shoulder.” Full context can be found in A Game of Thrones - Jon I . Then later in the story after Benjen & Jon arrive at the Wall Benjen goes ranging and “poof” he disappears. The below SSM of 2005 simply states Benjen joined the NW a few months after Eddard’s return from warring. http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/ConQuest_Kansas_City_MO_May_27_294 6) When, specifically, did Benjen join the NW? Was it a couple of years after Ned returned, or immediately? It was within a few months of Ned's returning. The reason being that there always was a Stark at Winterfell, so he had to stay there until Ned returned. GRRM refused to say the reason why Benjen had to join the NW.
  21. You did ask why I'm merely helping you stir the pot. I'll come back tomorrow iffin' you be wantin' a serious answer.
  22. It is a woman thawg. My father married twice after a mutually agreeable divorce from my mother. It takes a mature man to say, “This is my kid, STFU. If you are so frekking insecure about our marriage we have a problem.” As it relates to Cat and Eddard. It is kind of the same. Eddard told her not to snoop into the who Jon’s mother is gossip. Cat was so wound up with status she saw Jon as a threat to her and Eddard’s kids. I’ll cut her some slack. She didn’t know that Jon was Eddard’s nephew.
  23. This is frightening. I'll take the ending of the u know what. Even they may be delaying which is a pisser.