Nerevanin

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  1. The whole "Jon and overall everyone hates LF" makes no sense, it's so poorly executed in the show. Brienne hates him while she doesn't really have a reason to do so, LF never did anything to her. Jon even refuses to talk with him, although he saved his ass. When LF asks for a reward, Jon looks like he's about to explode. I suppose that I was really naive when I expected (after LF saving Jon in the battle) Jon to be grateful and maybe even offer Sansa's hand to LF as a reward. Even Arya who knows practically nothing about LF looks like "are you effing kidding me that you have this traitor bitch here?!" when she finds out he is in Winterfell and immediately starts to follow him around. Sure, LF did a whole lot of things which are good reasons for the Stark kids (and their allies) to hate him but they are not really aware of any of it. LF not getting a pardon or a more merciful punishment for his past crimes is so much fanservice. Like, ok, he betrayed your daddy but he saved your life, so maybe you could spare his one? No, Sansa blames him for selling her to the Boltons (which isn't true), killing Lysa (which is true but Lysa would kill Sansa if LF didn't stop her) and betraying Ned (which is true but basically LF was loyal to the king), while she completely forgets about him saving Jon's life (coming with the Vale army), save her life (smuggling her out of KL, killing Lysa, coming with the Vale army) and he even saved Arya's life (not revealing her identity to Tywin). It's just ridiculous.
  2. Because of the spoiler Aeron chapter, although there is practically nothing that would explicitly hint at the alliance. If this actually happens, I hope that it is not D&D who are given rights to finish the books. Thank you for this post. The reason why LF tried to pit Sansa against Arya will probably be the biggest mystery in GOT because, as you said, there is basically no reason for it. Arya knows nothing that could hurt LF. If he was afraid that Arya would drag Sansa from his sphere of influence, cool, but did they really think that he'd make Sansa kill also her crippled brother and the half-brother that is KITN? After Season6 finale I hoped for Sansa to actually turning to the dark side and marry LF when she realizes that the lords overlooked her and elected Jon. But nothing like this happened because Team Stark has to win and be the good guys all the time...
  3. He could simply order the assassin to leave the dagger behind if he suceeded in killing Bran.
  4. I'm not familiar with this particuler quote of GRRM and when he said it but imo, saying clearly at least twice in the books that two characters think it that was Joffrey doesn't really correspond to "we have enough info to figure it out". If it was really Joffrey and two characters think so, that the way to adress it is "it's already solved", not "figure it out". Just an opinion. Would you mind elaborate how Joffrey wanted to kill Tyrion? (I don't doubt you, I just don't remember everything...) When it comes to Joffrey's motive, would you read my reply just below to falcotron (so I don't have to write it all again)? In Davos 6, ASOS, Stannis remembers that years ago Joffrey brutally killed a cat and when Robert found out about it, he got really mad and beat Joffrey because of it. So Joffrey knows that he won't gain any recognition from Robert by doing brutal things or killing creatures. Why kill Bran then? And even if he wanted to kill him then, why he would remain silent about it if he thought it would gain him respect from Robert? A good point! LF already did a few things to cause tension between the Starks and the Lannisters - he had Lysa murder Jon Arryn and send a letter to Cat blaming the murder on the Lannisters. If we accept that he had an agent in Winterfell and that agent sent him a word about Bran's fall, he could use this and order Bran's murder which would hint that Bran's fall wasn't an accident. And Bran's fall happened when the evil Lannisters were in Winterfell, so it can be understood as the evil Lannisters wanting to finish what they started. He didn't send it there and it wasn't his at the time. It used to be his but later he lost it to king Robert. Tyrion or Jaime imo correctly guess that the dagger was among tons of other daggers that Robert had with while travelling to WF. Ordering his supposed agent in Wintefell to use the dagger, LF made sure that the dagger gets a lot of attention. Valyrian steel daggers don't grow on trees.
  5. Yeah, I think so. Me too, Sansa has to be the one causing LF's downfall. I'm pretty sure it will be like this in the books and I was pleasantly surprised that it was like this even in the show. I honestly don't know what to think about Bran, I don't know where his story can continue. Sure, he will gain access to all the past events like in the show probably but what then? As you say, it's too easy for team Stark to have him around, on the other hand he probably can't really influence anything if he stays in the cave (which I think he will). I agree with Daenerys landing at Dragonstone and Samwell leaving the Citadel before coming a maester. Tyrells being extinct in the books is an interesting idea, although I'm not sure about it considering that Margaery and Loras have two additional brothers in the books. Hard to predict anything though. Gendry already reappeared in the books in AFFC in the second to last Brienne's chapter. Which surely doesn't mean that he won't appear again! I agree about Edric. Either him or Gendry will imo continue the Baratheon line.
  6. All dead, all dead... Seriously, can they even survive in the North fighting, marching and living in freezing temperatures?
  7. So season 7 is over and we are well past the books. My question is which events from season 7, if any, will happen in the books in your opinion? Let's just theorize wildly! My theories: - LF trying to pit Sansa against one of her siblings (my guess is Rickon though, not Arya) which will be the boundary she won't want to cross and which will make her get rid of him, eventually passing the sentence herself. On the other hand, I think that she will set up a real trap for him and not relying on what Bran does or doesn't say. I've always imagined LF dying at Wintefell, so that too. - Rhaegar and Lyanna were really married - one of dragons somehow dying in such a way that the NK will rise it. - NK, WW and wights breaching the Wall - Cersei's pregnancy - not completely sure about this but it seemed to me like such an improbable plottwist that I'm inclined to say that it comes from GRRM - Euron making alliance with Cersei
  8. Sure, Sansa made her mind and probably nothing he could say could sway her. Royce already hates him for some time, so it's the same thing. And yes, Sansa and Arya know that Bran says the truth. But unless they did some kind of Twilight-Renesme-convinction round with every other lord / guard present there, why the lords / guards should believe it's true? Because some teen who looks and sounds quite high says so? Sansa confessed before that Lysa committed suicide. From a perspective, it can seem that suddenly she changes it because it's convenient for her plan. The problem is that D&D made LF so stupid that he confessed the crime. My guess is that Sansa told everyone but LF in the room what was going to happen to prevent any complications. But yeah, you're most likely right that LF was dead man walking at the moment Sansa decided to kill him. The only problem I have with it is that everyone, not only Sansa and Arya, trusts Bran. To your third paragraph, if his ultimate goal was to follow Sansa as a lapdog, sure, he had no other option (but not trying to pit Sansa against Arya maybe?). If his ultimate goal was to gain power and, more importantly, live, he had quite a few options. The one that could pay off the most imo was fleeing to Eyrie where his last standing ally (completely ignoring that Cersei completely ignores him) is - Sweetrobin. You're right, focusing on Bran instead of on Arya makes much more sense, especially if LF is aware (which he probably is) of his omnipresence. Bran was a real threat to him. Arya on the other hand... Maybe I am stupid or slow but I just don't get why LF would even try to pit the sisters once against another. Did Arya threaten his position in Winterfell in any way? Not really, Sansa already had several advisors and yet she prefered to discuss stuff with LF. Did Arya have any info that would harm LF? No. Maybe he was afraid that Arya would be too influential to Sansa but the same thing can be said about Jon and Bran and yet he did nothing against any of them. The whole arranged marriage between Sansa and Ramsay was just a bullsh*t, it makes no sense from any perspective at all. Sadly, the real reason behind it was to follow the books (although it's not Sansa who marries Ramsay in the books ofc) and possibly to give Jon a reason to attack Ramsay because they didn't want to introduce so many characters just because of the pink letter. This is actually an interesting interpretation. I personally took the word "defend" less literally and I understood it as "let me say something in my defence" and when Sansa leaned back, I took it as "okay, go on". But yeah, if LF had an ally in the room, that ally can later bring this up and blame Sansa for not respecting traditions and denying trail by combat to someone. The sad thing is that it's never going to happen.
  9. a good point. EDIT: I forgot to mention that in the books LF seems to be skilled in throwing daggers. So demand a trial by combat, choose a dagger as your weapon, aim, throw it and... we have a winner! While I see what you mean when you say that it seems in-character for LF to break down like this. However, the problem with all this is that for a reason everybody takes Bran's words as a holy bible. Like what he says is true and that's it, there's no discussion about it. While in fact it was just Bran's word against LF's one, Sansa had no real proof, no real witness. Remember the scene when LF talks with Bran and Bran repeats "chaos is a ladder"? From that moment LF knows that there is something wrong with Bran, that he knows things he shouldn't know. And yet he doesn't bother to deal in any way with it? Like, ask Sansa about the visions and then quickly pack his bags and leave? It's just wierd and very likely bad writing.
  10. Well yeah, that's clear. I just think that the old LF would have three back up plans prepared for such a plotwist and he would at least try to fight. On the other hand, Season 5-7 LF fell on his knees and said that he loved Sansa. Which is what annoys me about the scene. Sure, I don't expect him to have a prepared 30 minutes long speech but at least he could react to what Sansa was saying. Like, Sansa: "You sold to Boltons.", LF: "You agreed to go to WF and marry Ramsay, remember?", Sansa: "You mudered Lysa.", LF: "Didn't you swear that she committed suicide?" But I suppose that I can accept that simply he was caught so off guard that he couldn't come up even with this (but I'm not very happy about it). I think that Sansa decided to get rid of LF after the little game conversation when she realizes he wants to get rid of Arya. But then off-screen, I suppose that Sansa told Bran and Arya about the plan. For example when Arya says "the dagger was yours", this imo hints that she was prepared for it. Also, Arya doesn't seem surprised at all when Sansa calls out LF. The only thing that kind of bothers me is if Bran told Sansa about LF betraying Ned earlier or if Sansa decided to kill LF after little game convo and then went to Bran like "hey, I want to kill that guy, can you check with your magic sight if he did something against our family that I can blame him for?" The mention of Arya and Sansa not mentioning plotting against LF is a good point (although I apply it to no several episodes long plot existing, not to Sansa not informing Arya about her plan to kill LF).
  11. Very likely imo. I'm not buying this "Sansa+Arya play LF for half the season because they have nothing better to do and because they think he'll try to pit them against each other because he has nothing better to do" theory. Or he could say that yes, he betrayed Ned but he remained loyal to the king while Ned was practically doing a treason. Yes, Joffrey was a bastard born from an incest, so he wasn't really the heir, but LF could say that he didn't know it, Joffrey was his king, he remained loyal and helped him defend the traitors and that's it. So basically he knew that he was going to die and if he tried to drag Sansa down with him / sway her, he was probably going to die as well, although there was a tiny chance that she could show some mercy after him pointing out that she agreed to marry Ramsay, helped him cover Lysa's murder, was 3 times saved by him and stuff. So he prefered to do nothing. I'm sorry but this doesn't make much sense to me. He had nothing to lose at that point, it literally couldn't go any worse, it could go only better.
  12. More like "suggested", Tyrion and Jaime think so but they have no evidence to prove it. Also the reason why Joffrey allegedly did it is rather wierd imo. His proposed motivation is the reason why I've always had doubts about Joffrey being the one behind it all. Everybody (aka viewers) already knows this though, so why bother with it? IIRC Jaime told so Catelyn in Season 2. Not that I'm saying it's impossible that it was really only bringing this up. I dare to object and say that the "it was your dagger and that was another of your lies" suggests it. Not completely sure about the show but in the books there is clearly stated that LF lost his dagger to Robert. If there is nothing more to it, then saying "it was your dagger" is kind of wierd because what's the point of saying that a long long time ago LF had a dagger? But if you take it as "you said it was Tyrion's dagger that was to kill Bran but in fact it was yours", the line makes much more sense imo. Considering that LF is a schemer and he knew that information are power, I think that it is very probable that he had a spy or two among people travelling with Robert to Winterfell and it is also probable that he had a spy in Winterfell, to have info about his beloved Catelyn. Those spies then sent him message about Bran's fall and he took it as a chance to create more tension between the Starks and the Lannisters and so he ordered the spy to kill / to hire someone to kill Bran. It's all only a theory though.
  13. I just hated the whole episode. - Sansa sending Brienne away to KL eventually led to nothing, how surprising. - LF suffering from bad writing once again, completely unable to defend himself and tries to persuade Sansa by "you weren't there" - I have zero idea if Arya and Sansa were playing LF the whole season or not, I'm inclined to say no but I am so confused about all the WF plot this season.... - Ghost still invisible - Jon, Brienne, Tyrion, Bronn, the Hound and co. and all the Lannister soldiers peacefully marching together as best friends, no tension, no suspicion - Heartsbane is probably in the same chamber of oblivion as Ghost. What was the point of stealing it last season when it wasn't mentioned the whole season? - Theon vs that sailor. I didn't get the point of the fight at all. - the whole "you're both a Stark and a Greyjoy" conversation was just stupid - all the time wasted in KL was really wasted because it accomplish nothing, Cersei won't help them either way - Tyrion becoming St. Tyrion the Holliest when sacrifying himself and going to talk to Cersei - Bran apparently knows everything about everything but he didn't care to check that Jon's parents were married - Sam didn't even notice Gilly mentioning Rhaegar's second wedding last time and suddenly he knows everything about it And the award for the most stupid and ridiculous scene goes to... Jon going all teleshopping while demonstrating ways to kill a wight. Really?
  14. Thank you for this post. Yeah, LF was a schemer and had questionable morals but I think that you can't simply label him as a villain in the same category as Ramsay or Joffrey. While he did a few bad things, he also saved Sansa three times and Arya once. Without him, both will be probably long dead. Sansa should, more or less, see him as her saviour (which is what she does in the books). However, Sansa, for a reason I cannot understand at all, repeatedly forgets that she agreed to marry Ramsay and blames LF for it. I honestly don't understand why is everyone so sure that LF is evil. For example Brienne. She is constantly against him, although she knows nothing about him. Jon hates him, although LF saved his life. Neither Jon, nor Brienne know about LF making Lysa murder Jon Arryn, betraying Ned, killing Joffrey and possibly not even about him killing Lysa. Yet they both are 100% he is a bad guy. Makes no sense. If we accept the theory that Arya and Sansa were playing LF this whole season, it would mean that they assumed right from the beginning that he would try to pit them against each other. He eventually did but how the f they could predict it like this? It's the same thing as Cersei's relationship with Jaime. It was a highly guarded secret for seasons and suddenly everybody knows about it and are completely certain about it. I agree. I expected him to eventually be killed by Sansa but I also expected it to be the "student outplayed the master" scenario which it imo wasn't. Like Sansa setting a trap and LF being cought in flagranti in such a way that no one could deny he is guilty. Saying that Arya might be a dangerous person is not a trap. Instead, Sansa, Arya and Bran confronted him without having an actual proof or witness, relying solely on Bran's and Sansa's claims, and everyone happily agreed with it and didn't even question it. Don't get me wrong, I liked that it was the Stark kids who killed him, after all he did to their family, but the execution of his downfall was just lame.
  15. Yeah, I don't get this either. I honestly can't accept the whole "Arya and Sansa were playing LF ever since Arya arrived to WF", it doesn't make sense imo. So Arya came, Bran suddenly told them that LF betrayed their dad, the sisters immediately assumed that LF would like to pit them against each other without him actually trying anything because he only saved Sansa's ass 3 times (smuggling her out of KL, killing Lysa, bringing the army) and Arya's once (not revealing her identity to Tywin. Why would they even think he would try make them fall apart?! My theory is that the tension was genuine and that Sansa only realized what LF's up to in this or the previous episode, probably after the little game conversation. All of this but the last two sentences. LF was acting like an idiot, for example he could easily explain his possession of the letter by wanting to destroy it to protect Sansa against being accused of collaborating with the Lannisters. For me LF died after Lysa's death when the show surpassed the books. This whole season he was just wandering around WF talking nonsense so the show could have a death in the finale, when the Stark killed him without having any real proof. But hey, at least it was good for Aiden, he was in every episode, got cash and didn't work that hard.