Curled Finger

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About Curled Finger

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    The Darkest Steps of Mordor

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  1. Skin Changing and The Last Greenseer

    You are full of surprise things Bloodraven should be concerned with but isn't. Let me counter with this just for fun. Is it possible the Prince That Was Promised/3 Heads of the Dragon is a political prophesy whereas Azor Ahai and/or The Last Hero serve some other type of prophesy that perhaps doesn't concern our former Hand and Lord Commander now that he is no longer involved in the political arena? Gads and I'm already spinning the greenseer/Last Hero as seen through an LC's eyes argument in my own head. This is really an interesting line of thought Aetta. Thanks for bringing it up.
  2. Skin Changing and The Last Greenseer

    Hey @Midnight Confession--thanks for stopping in and welcome! That's part of the discussion: Is skinchanging really an abomination and if so, what is Bran and what will he become because of this. Bran's hands are tied in being immobilized. You used the word victim to describe Hodor and I won't say it's the wrong word. I mentioned Frankenstein in the OP--who is the hapless monster here? Who is the doctor forcing his will upon an innocent creature? I think that within the context of the story inasmuch as we have there is a reason (maybe many reasons) for Bran to have all these experiences--skinchanging, warging, visits in time, speaking through trees and birds, watching maybe communicating in dreams--it reads like gathering forces to me. And I think Hodor is Bran's vehicle for more than 1 thing. Still when the smoke clears, are Bran's actions in Hodor really an abomination or was Hodor designed for exactly this purpose?
  3. Skin Changing and The Last Greenseer

    You know, that's a damned fine point you're making. We often separate the story into 2 parts: politics and The Others. In that BR hasn't mentioned his great grand whatever niece, perhaps it is telling of her part in the fight against The Others.
  4. Viserys meets the dragon

    I think there may well be something to Dany imprinting all her dragons, but only bonding with Drogon. I'm not sure who chose whom in that dynamic, but the bond is there. Still I think the relationship between Dany and the dragons goes deeper than imprint. Didn't Rhaegal and Viserion allow themselves to be collared? That act was submission by both dragons. It's dangerous to proceed under the assumption that anyone who has interacted with an egg could leave an imprint on it. Didn't Illyrio, Jiqui and Jorah all handle the eggs as well as Viserys? In this context I'm thinking of Grey Ghost and Cannibal. All those years on Dragonstone yet wild as the day they were hatched. Riders were finally found leading me to believe there is some sort of connection, be it psychic, physical, sensational or spiritual between dragons and riders. Yes, I've seen the PJ videos and I'm not convinced DNA can call across species to each other. I suppose there could be an astrological or numeric thing at play here but I wonder if it isn't something far more base, like smell? Punk Ass Viserys Targaryen with a dragon. I'm so glad that didn't actually happen.
  5. Skin Changing and The Last Greenseer

    Thank you Lady. This is a good read in the context of this conversation. It appears to me that Bran has lots of options in front of him.
  6. Skin Changing and The Last Greenseer

    Why wouldn't Hodor dream? He can think, he just can't express himself exponentially. He exhibits many character traits and interacts in conversation. I'm sure he's got memories and hopes as well. He's a lovely character. I think he would essentially take on Bran's personality which would cause Hodor to be lost to us. It would be a loss. The only thing I'm not sure about is the ability of this man boy to say anything other than Hodor. Sounds like a mental hiccup and despite Bran's dominant consciousness, it would still be Hodor's brain, right? Hard to say how it would go but it looks like a good thing.
  7. Skin Changing and The Last Greenseer

    Liven accomplished. You dance a fascinating jig, Ser.
  8. What is Ghost?

    OH heck yeah. I've thought there was something to her red eyes forever and there is that milky white complexion, but I don't think it ever crossed my mind she could be an albino. Good on you, Dude.
  9. What is Ghost?

    That's a good question. I've seen many posters indicate that readers may determine the "worthiness" of a character by the wolves' reactions to them. Ghost seems to take to Mel. That should mean I can trust Mel to some degree, but I still find it hard to do. Shadow babies for fratricide is still a deep chasm for me to cross. In truth none of the direwolves are ordinary. Lady seemed to be the most grounded (domesticated?) or least magical of the pack, but we also didn't get to know her very well, did we? Then there is wild Nymeria who seems to sort of protect Arya or maybe she was only letting her girl know she was still around the Riverlands while gathering her smaller grey cousins into a force to be feared. Fierce Shaggy Dog fighting unicorns and biting people, acting much like a wild creature despite being right there in the crypts with his boy. Grey Wind almost warrior like in Robb's cause. Summer so loyal and observant maintaining his wolfishness in hunting, protecting his entire group of humans yet still communicating with his own pack and adopting, winning I'm not sure what the word is to describe what he does with his little wolf pack, but I am watching that with a very close eye. Then we have our Ghost who often disappears for long periods, almost socializes with humans--certainly protects more than Jon and stays in contact with his original pack. The link between Summer and Ghost is nothing short of fascinating. Ghost also seems to have a sense or precognition, at least in Dance, with the pacing Jon credits to Boroq's boar. Still he does seem to listen to Jon and allow himself to be commanded. Maybe we just see Jon commanding Ghost more often than Bran/Summer, but there is this obedience to Ghost that doesn't fit his natural roaming persona. Ghost being unable to speak is an odd thing, but perhaps it is a disability along the lines of Bran's that causes his magical ability to be more pronounced or suspect. But, I don't really see his magic as any different from Summer's or Nymeria's in the wolf dreams. The main difference I see is his many trips away though Jon doesn't worry. So I don't think Ghost is warged by anyone but Jon. And though he is the odd one, his boy is also an odd one--he is after all, the familiar of a half Targ. I'm going to follow this one to see what comes up. You've really put some good questions out there @Quellon.
  10. Skin Changing and The Last Greenseer

    Enlightening about Martin's uses for bolt. Let's see what have we managed to pull together here? Reaching, intent, feelings associated with skinchanging, empathy and bolting. Of course I've never been one to have the patience for cross checking uses of words in the massive story. Not true--I did once go through all the uses of "melt" but that when I was convinced the Jogos Nhai were Others. Funny what a single turn of phrase can do to a reader. I thank you very much for defining "bolt" in relation to our little paragraph as well as the other words and terms you shared. It was very interesting accompanying you up and down the stairs Ser.
  11. What was that thing between Cersei and Taena?

    It's a rare thing for a woman to be in Cersei's position at this time. I can see the whole confabulated penis envy argument has merit, but I'm also down with the plausibility of Cersei fulfilling her power lust at Taena's seduction. And I do thing Taena seduced Cersei, though I really enjoyed I think Taena may be far craftier than we are led to believe. And I think Taena is working for someone and find it very interesting that after the imprisonment, debasement, disrespect torture and the walk that Taena is the one she wants back in company. Then again we could all be wrong and they both just dig the whole thing. To answer the OP, a line from Night Moves, an old Seger song, "I used her and she used me and neither one cared..." is maybe the best way to describe what I thought of the relationship.
  12. Wow, some really interesting choices. A surprise in my eyes would be a darkhorse contender. But you people got me thinking along the lines of the Winter actually killing off many characters so that some as isolated and unlikely as Sweet Robert Arryn really would have to step up. Man that's a scary thought. I read through every post. Am I to understand this community as actually believing Stannis has a real and possible shot at the throne? I mean, I want it, but I don't see it happening in any way shape or form. Stannis is my surprise character offering.
  13. Skin Changing and The Last Greenseer

    Alright, I finally got a quiet moment to read your post from TWOW subforum topic. Verrrrrrrrrry interesting. I think we can openly discuss the premise without quoting anything from the gift chapters. For those who haven't read the post (maybe @kissdbyfire can post a link?) there are many instances of our broken and battered Theon referred to as a dog. Theon is presented as little more than some beaten creature to us throughout ADWD. In essence Theon is mentally and emotionally broken to the point of taking on this pitiful persona. In his brokenness Theon's thought processes aren't perhaps as complete and lucid as they previously were thereby making Theon a pretty darned good candidate for hosting Bran. I think if Bran can command Hodor in thought he could do absolutely the same for Theon who is already open to the old gods speaking to him. Ha, great example of bicameral mind if you ask me! Before I forget on the subject off the subject. Theon was the 3rd companion I decided on to bear a sword north for the cause. Martin went to some length to describe Theon beheading the Iron Born captain at Moat Cailin, flayed fingers and all. Theon can still wield a longsword. My nutshell explanation is no doubt flawed and I would love for you to jump in and set it straight. Your idea really opens up alternate scenarios for Bran's invasions and intent. I think most of us assume Bran was the tree who spoke Theon's name and though your TWOW stuff is exciting, I think you can make an excellent case with the information in ADWD. My premise here is that Bran can and will reach into minds or at least provoke a mind or 2. Bring it, Sister, this is good stuff.
  14. Skin Changing and The Last Greenseer

    It's no secret that I am a fan Euron having similar gifts as Bran. I think I decided once that Euron may be a blue seer for lack of a better term--sort of the inverse of Bran. Still there is little doubt in my mind that Bran and Hodor will mind meld completely at some point. I'm looking for hints as to Bran's future in Euron's actions. The weirwood paste seems to have been a turning point. Most of us understand that Euron is a collector of very special people and what he seems to do with them. These actions seem to be necessary to Euron's ultimate job, purpose or something. Taken as inverse actions to what may be required of Bran, I see some very very hard decisions in front of our sweet little boy. Or many others making hard decisions on behalf of Bran's ultimate job, purpose or something. Perhaps our Euron specialist @DarkSister1001 may have something to say about this. Hodor appears to be a required "part" of Bran or vice versa. It is their "teaming up" that saves the group at least twice now. I've read your definitions of empath with a great deal of interest and wonder what the word for a person who is incapable of acting in a situation without the "vehicle of another" is. The more I think about it, Bran makes some very knightly moves during his fighting scenes in Hodor. Awfully skillful for 2 boys with no real training at arms. Is there anyway to determine what Hodor feels during these actions? Does their combining of forces or body/mind collective make a 3rd complete personality?
  15. Baby swapping in Westeros

    Ah Seams, you always manage to put a well baited hook out. Here are a few more: All Davos' sons--do we know the real score on the men who went down during the Blackwater Battle? Davos survived...Selyse's pickled babies. What happened to Rhaego's body?