Curled Finger

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  1. I think it has absorbed blood and fire, Cridefea. Certainly flesh and fire. There is a reason the Targs cremate rather than bury. I understand we have the fire connection, but most people have a reason for what they do with their remains. We know the Valyrians believed they were gods despite having gods of their own. So there was a faith in place. Perhaps they believed they were returning to their seat of power, fire, and adding to its power. I don't know, but you get the idea. There is a reason for comparatively odd cremation as opposed to burial, but we don't know what it is. What we do know is that bodies are burned in the North out of fear of transformation in death. Hmmmm, could that be telling us something? Let's take it a step further and ask why the heck this invaluable heirloom was even placed with Aegon in the fire? What was that supposed to do or signal?
  2. Well done. I really do like this whole absorbing souls line of thinking.
  3. Get some rest, you know we like you at the top of your game, my friend.
  4. Yah, it's easy to overlook and even dislike Sansa for so much. And she's pretty whiny to start with, but given time and careful reading Sansa is as important as any Stark in this story.
  5. I sincerely hope you enjoy this fantasy epic with dragons, resurrections, flaming swords, telepathy, necromancy and 125 year-old men living as trees.
  6. That would be beyond cool. I'd like to see one of those little Valyrian Sphinxes alive and capable of well something. You are a scary dude, but I like it!
  7. I believe VS was inspired by Damascus Steel. The books already tell us specifically that dragon fire, spells, blood magic and steel are required to make and or remake VS with the substitution of wyldfire for dragon fire. Other materials are up for discussion, but thus far unproven. A non-Targ Valyrian dragon lord avoided the doom curiously, in Qohor, of all places. I'm thinking this is how the Qohori learned to rework VS. And you are quite right that the art of making VS is lost, but the art of remaking VS is alive and well with the Qohori. I think you're talking about obsidian coming in many colors, right? Mel makes the big deal about kings blood but the World Book cites: In folklore, even as far as Westeros, Qohor is sometimes known as the City of Sorcerers, for it is widely believed that the dark arts are practiced here even to this day. Divination, bloodmagic, and necromancy are whispered of, though such reports can seldom be proved. One truth remains undisputed, however: The dark god of Qohor, the deity known as the Black Goat, demands daily blood sacrifice. Calves, bullocks, and horses are the animals most often brought before the Black Goat's altars, but on holy days condemned criminals go beneath the knives of his cowled priests, and in times of danger and crisis it is written that the high nobles of the city offer up their own children to placate the god, that he might defend the city. AWOIAF The Free Cities: Qohor which goes a long way in my mind to substantiate the use of blood magic. All I've got for Asshai is that it is written somewhere that it's suspected the Valyrians learned to handle their dragons. I like that souls of the dead entering steel. Nice.
  8. Yah, I must have misread what Tobho said. Silly me. It's clear no magic is involved in making VS despite multiple references directly to the making and remaking of VS. Wish I'd brought up real steel being darkened by heat. Dang. Back to the drawing board.
  9. Wait a minute, I had a recollection. The Andals brought the written word to Westeros. How about they adopted knights as a thing they invented when in reality the 1st Men already had the sport/art/social conscience already in place? Those rats, indeed. The 1st Men could not write their practices down, unless someone has the decoder ring for Royce's armor...It's time to rethink those Andals in a place where Ser Galladon, Symeon Star Eyes and Florian the Fool were bleeding legendary.
  10. Back to Valyrian Steel Swords with new intel from The Sons of The Dragon. I’ve long held the 12 + 1 swords theory. That’s out there, let’s move on. The information that was available at the time I began investigating the magic swords was limited on its best day. New information just fogs all that information up and forces me to take a new look at those cool swords. New position: Widows Wail and Oathkeeper may well be reforged into a new Ice. Unsure if I’m more shocked or depressed at this, but there it is. Despite my curiosity at the wording of Sons of the Dragon with respect to Vhagar lighting Aegon’s pyre and Blackfyre becoming darker for having er, participated in the festivities, I have an even stronger conviction that Lamentation was Lost, Killed, Destroyed in the Dragon Pit. Lesson to all my fellow sword geeks, the sword is GONE FOREVER if it is listed among the dead. This deal with Blackfyre darkening in the pyre which we have to take on faith was common fire only started by Vhagar, is interesting. Modern steel can be heat treated to achieve certain colors, specifically grey and black. The only colors of VS that we know of are degrees of grey. Red Rain may or may not be red and OK and WW are of course, night and blood. The only really good reference I can cite is Tobho Mott when he explains the color of OK & WW to Tyrion. "I confess, these colors were not what I intended, and I do not know that I could duplicate them. Your lord father had asked for the crimson of your House, and it was that color I set out to infuse into the metal. But Valyrian steel is stubborn. These old swords remember, it is said, and they do not change easily. I worked half a hundred spells and brightened the red time and time again, but always the color would darken, as if the blade was drinking the sun from it. And some folds would not take the red at all, as you can see. If my lords of Lannister are displeased, I will of course try again, as many times as you should require, but—" ASOS Tyrion 4 I really want a look at Dark Sister and Orphan Maker now. We have looked at the colors of the swords (that we know of), the stones or adornment of pommels, the length of blades, the width of blades and the potential weight of a Valyrian Steel longsword. We have looked at the houses we know had the swords originally. We have looked at how the swords were lost and found. We have marveled at VS ability to “remember” and act of its own accord. Go read a Brienne chapter if you don’t remember. We have looked for all the ingredients, confirmed and speculated, as well as every potential process for making Valyrian Steel. We can tell you confidently that VS requires dragon fire, blood magic, steel and spells. (Even if I do still think obsidian is part of the recipe) We have discussed and argued over whether VS is Dragon Steel. For the sake of this discussion, meaning no disrespect to all the wonderful real world sword geeks and metallurgists, let’s leave it at the swords are magical. With advance knowledge that Valyrian Steel is made in large by magic, what caused Blackfyre to darken? Was it fire or was it blood or a combination of both? Common fire has no impact upon VS, so I’m betting dragon fire is at least part of this metamorphosis. If you are of the blood did it persuasion is it exclusive to king’s blood, Targ blood or what? Lady Forlorn may have been used to execute more people in the story than the other blades. If it is blood why hasn’t this blade’s color changed? Is there something else to blades that remember that we may not have identified?
  11. You make a great point there. I think it's a conspiracy.
  12. I think that's a very fair assumption. The thing with knights in this story is you have them showing up long before the Andals brought them with their 7 pointed star indicating that there were knights running about doing valiant deeds during the Age of Heroes. What is the Order of the Green Hand? What is the Order of Green Men? Maybe not knights, but something for sure. The point is there are many cultures at play in Westeros with each bringing their own ideals to define knights. (And kings and women and marriage and faith and learning and medicine...) The BWB or knights of the hollow hill are considered outlaws by many, certainly by those with the highest power. But look at their supporters and you will see they are knights after a fashion, at least to the extent that they have taken up the cause of the small folk. What other orphanages have we read of being established in the wake of TWO5K? Who's running the single 1 I can recall? Who's out exacting revenge for the atrocities committed at the Red Wedding? The BWB is up to so many things. These knights of the hollow hill are doing the work of real knights in my estimation at any rate. Knights of the Seven are likely just the popular order. The other orders need not be considered less if they are not anointed in the light of the Seven. Is a regular fire fighter any less brave or skilled than a stunt man or spy or trauma nurse?
  13. He's called a warrior priest, so I always considered him to be a knight of religious order 1st then becoming a war hero knight. I wish I could remember the name of the R'hllor warrior priests, but it escapes me just now. Someone will pop in with it with a more extensive explanation as well. Let me offer up my lame qualifier here: these warrior priests are R'hllorists. This Knight of the Seven may not apply to him or any of the BWB. This is what he says, if it helps: "We are brothers here," Thoros of Myr declared. "Holy brothers, sworn to the realm, to our god, and to each other." "The brotherhood without banners." Tom Sevenstrings plucked a string. "The knights of the hollow hill." I wasn't able to cite Thoros in relation to Knight of the Seven at all, but it sure would be an interesting thing.
  14. Just my 2 cents for all that's worth. I've imposed a year long ban on any and all rereads of the series--a sanity break, if you will--my memory is not as sharp as it once was. Please correct if I am in error. Jamie at the age of 15 or 16 fought with Kingsguard and famous knights against the Kingswood Brotherhood and earned his knight rights there, in the esteem of the valiant knights present. Aerys officially knighted him, but he had already won the respect of the real bad asses. Davos saved an entire garrison including the new king's brother and the Baratheon ancestral home. His efforts were not slight. He earned something in that smuggling enterprise. Jorah won his knighthood in a tournament, for his prowess as a fighter and presumably, a rider. Where Jamie was already talented and Davos was decidedly valiant, Jorah seemed to gain confidence and fame with each victory. He grows with his knighthood and seems to have a far keener understanding of knighthood than most North men. Dawn is not passed down generationally by the Daynes. To wield Dawn, perhaps to earn the title Sword of the Morning or Evening, a Dayne appears to require extraordinary ability. I am under the impression that Dawn may go years even generations without being "held" by any man and that there is something specifically "Dayne" required. I'm looking for some sort of rite of passage in this here thing that definitely requires knighthood. By all accounts Yohn Royce is a great fighter and respected knight, participating and winning in tournaments against younger men. Lyn Corbray is a war hero and wields Lady Forlorn much to his elder brother's chagrin. Blackfyre is traditionally passed from (knighted) Targaryen ruler to heir apparent, for fighting prowess whereas Dark Sister is usually given to the next bad ass Targ not in direct succession. See Daemon Blackfyre and Brynden Rivers for an excellent illustration of the knights/warriors/rulers as held by Targs. Probably in error, but I've always thought Sandor Clegane was offered knighthood and declined--vehemently. In the same breath we have Gregor Clegane being knighted by Rhaegar himself and ultimately causing The Hound's disdain for knights. All in all I get the feeling there are categories of knighthood...sports heroes (Jorah, Loras Tyrell), religious order (Thoros of Myr), familial (Royce), natural (Barristan, Jamie), social (Dondarian, Davos), territorial (Nights Watch), and maybe even magical (Dayne).
  15. I thought exactly the same thing. History of Westeros just did a podcast about Sons of the Dragon. They all seem very satisfied that Vhaghar's flames only started the fire. Presumably this pyre involved burning materials. If I understand correctly, Vhaghar only supplied the match but the fire was just a common wood fire. Yah, I know, it's complicated. I'm still second guessing my convictions regarding Lamentation after all this. We know Tobho Mott commented something to the effect that Oath Kieeper (and Widows Wail) seemed to drink in the color of the dye he was trying to incorporate. Nonetheless, there is red in the ripples so all was not lost. I think it's possible the Valyrian Steel swords have a type of memory. You may be onto something with absorption of the blood because it does all boil down to blood magic. I would like to offer that if dragons are fire made flesh, flesh being live, perhaps this darkening is in fact a reaction to the magic in the blade thriving on the living dragon flame? There is or was or is a VS sword called Orphan Maker. It's blade is black. Makes you wonder what happened there.