essosi watch

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  1. I should clarify myself I don't say Rhaegar and Arianne are paired. My Lady from Dorne is Ashara Dayne. Arys Oakheart is imo inversed and slightly changed version of Ashara, sister of Dornish Kingsguard. Arianne represents Rhaegar. This chapter throws some light on their relationship, most likely one-sided.
  2. Exactly this. I tend to think that in these books, every sentence has its purpose. Renly's seemingly pointless plot is there bc reader has to realize that someone from the Reach remembers well what Lyanna looked like, and that they not only saw her once but this person had to be in contact with her at least for some time and they were old enough at the time to remember her.
  3. Warning! This is just my own private crackpottery. I think all these Arys and Areo storylines are here only because they are inversions/echoes/parallels of past events. I don't expect them to make much sense or have any exceptional depth. The titled chapters are Under the sea. Under the sea, the smoke rises in bubbles, and flames burn green and blue and black. In The Soiled Knight bubble we have these ingredients: A princess, a knight from the Reach, a girl who would become a queen, sexual relationship where one uses the other. Inverse these and we would get: A prince, a lady from Dorne (from Dorne bc in this chapter Arys muses how unlikely is for Oakheart even be in Dorne and how there is longtime enmity between Oakhearts and Dornishmen), a girl who was the Queen of love and beauty; sexual relationship, probably one sided. Throw these in a pot and you have a rebellion stew. In The Princess in the Tower bubble we have: The same princess unwillingly in a tower. Her father ignoring her and letting her stew in her own sauce. Servants wouldn't talk to her. Books are boring. She fasts until Areo Hotah brings her to her father. Now imagine this: The same prince as before, willingly in a tower, ignoring his father, letting him stew a bit. The prince wouldn't listen to servants nor lords who would try to impress him with feasts. You know, opposite of fast. He is more interested in books. Finally The Captain of Guards arrives and persuades the prince to meet his father. Sounds familiar? So I would not expect the characters in titled chapters to act like the POVs we are used to bc they are the smoke bubbles botched to rise slowly to the surface from the inverted green and blue and black flames.
  4. It was already mentioned a couple of times that the "black-barked trees whose inky blue leaves made the stuff of the sorcerous drink the Qartheen called shade of the evening", the trees that grew around the House of the Undying, are an inversion of the weirwood trees. Now the weirwood trees and the paste made of their seeds and sap are able to enhance the gift of a greenseer and through the weirwood trees a gifted person can see events from past and future. IIRC, these visions are pretty accurate and considered true. Now my question is: If the weirwood visions are accurate and true, and the black barked trees and the shade of the evening are supposed to be an inversion of the weirwood and the weirwood paste, isn't it possible that the visions induced by shade of the evening are false or lies or at least inaccurate? The warlocks in the House of the Undying stress repeatedly and overemphasise the "truths" Dany will find there but her dragon attacks the warlocks and destroys their palace of so-called truths. On the other hand, Bran's beast doesn't seem to have a problem with the children of the forest or Bloodraven or with their cave. So I have this suspicion that the visions in the House of the Undying may not be that reliable as we think. I'm not sure what exactly are they or how to interpret them but I tend to think they are dangerously misleading. Thanks for reading and feel free to tear this to pieces, I don't mind to be corrected or reminded of something I'm missing.
  5. I have read this theory and I must say it's actually quite convincing, although I have different opinion on some of the arguments used to support the theory, namely why it was important to mention all the dance partners in Meera's story. Nevertheless, the theory itself is not in conflict with my own theories about what actually happened back then. I certainly cannot rule out this option because I have this odd suspition feeling, everytime I read that sentence in Meera's story of Harrenhal tourney, how the little crannogman saw " a maid with laughing purple eyes". Laughing. While everyone else: See? Haunting. Not easy for me to explain but it seems to be a difference in how people remember Ashara. Ser Barristan describes her eyes as "haunting" because for him, it's a sad memory, of unfulfilled love, a tale with no happy ending. Catelyn describes her eyes similarly. She has never met Ashara, IIRC, but she heard tales, and the source of those tales had no happy memories of Ashara Dayne, whether it was Ned or some of his war comrades that accompanied him from Dorne; quite the opposite, their story leaves an impression of distant sadness. On the other hand, Meera in her tale describes Ashara's eyes as laughing. No bitter memories of Ashara, no sadness associated with her. It would almost seem that for Meera (or a source of the tale) it's a story with happy end. She even says: Quote ... And the mystery knight should win the tourney, defeating every challenger, and name the wolf maid the queen of love and beauty." "She was," said Meera, "but that's a sadder story." ASoS, Bran II So, the story of silver prince crowning the wolf maid the queen of love and beauty was sadder than the story of our little crannogman and the maid with laughing purple eyes. It certainly was. Neither the prince nor the wolf maid live anymore. But the little crannogman still lives. And tells his children stories sometimes. But these stories are perhaps a little bit different than the stories fed to Ser Barristan and Ned's soldiers and then to maids at Winterfell and to Catelyn Stark. (I tend to think if Howland would one evening tell his children story how the tall and fair lady with purple eyes threw herself into the sea from the top of the Palestone tower, his children would be like: "Wait, what???", /confused/, "But Father...! This is not funny! As far as we know, half an hour ago, that fair lady with purple eyes was sitting in her chamber with other women, chatting merrily, making new net for Meera!) Nevermind my imagining of evenings in The Neck. We have this difference in descriptions of Ashara. It can mean something but it doesn't have to. But it's worth mentioning that HR witnessed the events at ToJ and Starfall personally, while Barristan, Catelyn and other narrators did not. And while their version of story of Ashara is tragic, the first-hand witness version is not tragic at all. I would rather say that for him this memory is dear and/or important to the point that he repeatedly tells the story to his own children, until they remember all the dancing partners of the maid with laughing eyes. This is one strong counterargument, I must admit. Unfortunatelly, Ser Arthur might be the Kingsguard sworn to protect the royal family but he was not a robot programmed to obey Rhaegar's orders, and he was not a single child. What do you think would have happened if Howland mentioned Ser Arthur's pregnant sister and her safety and safety of her unborn child and suggested with wicked smile that he would be pleased to keep her in his loving care?
  6. I'm not completely convinced yet. Remember Brandon fighting Littlefinger? He would have killed him but for Catelyn Tully. I mean, do we know what kind of relationship was between HR and AD? I know, poor choice of words. I'm not suggesting they were about to marry each other or something, but when you think of it a bit, back then, it was Brandon (pretty good fighter) against Petyr (not exactly famous for fighting skills) with Catelyn (future family member of the first, good friend of the latter) in the background. And Brandon maybe wasn't madly in love with Cat but he promised to spare Petyr's life, well, out of chivalry. Similarly, in the ToJ fight, we have: Arthur Dayne (damn good fighter) against Ned Stark (famous for his honor, not fighting skills) with Howland Reed ( ??? of the first, good friend of the latter) in the background. Now is it that hard to imagine that HR simply asked Ser Arthur to spare Ned's life and Ser Arthur, being the greatest knight of his era, promised not to kill Ned, well, out of chivalry..? You know, the same man who stopped when the Smiling Knight's sword had too many notches and let him fetch another one. The uncertain part is, of course, why would Ser Arthur have promised such thing to Howland?? In Brandon's case, Catelyn was supposed to be his wife. She was going to be part of his future family, and this way, Brandon expressed his respect for her. You know, the same man who was referred to as "the gallant fool". Do you think it's possible that Ser Arthur was in similar position, and for some reason (his sister, Lady Ashara Dayne, obviously) considered Howland Reed a future family member? It could be even the reason why Howland was there with Ned. HR might have accompanied Ned just because Ned knew about mutual respect befween HR and Ser Arthur and maybe relied on it a bit or hoped that it would make things easier. So, if you think that for some reason this scenario is impossible, don't hesitate to point it out.
  7. Thank you for your replies, Beautiful Bloody Sword (cool username btw) and Red Man Racey, I wanted to know if some canon facts excluding "Rhaegar is dead" would make it impossible and I'm glad you (more or less sarcastically) confirmed it would be technically possible. I'm still not decided what to believe regarding RT for obvious lack of information about him. Maybe that's why he's so interesting character, simply because we don't know much about him. I like to speculate about him and his motivations. He is the hardest to understand for me. His acts are not quite consistent with what we know about him from other characters. Someone (Barristan Selmy?) said that nobody ever truly knew Rhaegar. I tend to think we'll learn he was right and the crown prince in question, exposed to eyes of all Westeros, was in fact not what he looked like and what people took him for.
  8. I don't claim that Rhaegar is necessarily alive. I was just thinking, hypothetically, IF the M=R theory was true, would it be possible that Ned encountered RT at the Tower of Joy? I'm aware of that SSM where GRRM said Rhaegar was cremated. Also Ned reminiscing how Rhaegar lay dead in the stream while soldiers of both armies scrambled for rubies in the water, that's one strong counterargument for me. IIRC Cersei, seeing Aurane Waters first time, thinks that Rhaegar stood up from ashes, another little side notion pointing at Rhaegar's cremacy. I'm fully aware of all those arguments against M=R theory. So are the defenders of it but they still have their arguments to explain it. I'm not a defender of this theory, I was just curious, IF Rhaegar was somehow still alive, Mance or whoever, if it was technically possible for him to be present at the Tower of Joy when Ned was there. Hypothetically. Possible or not?
  9. I know I'm going to sound like a feeblewit. Bear with me please. In the light of the Mance is Rhaegar Theory, is it possible that Rhaegar was present at Tower of Joy? I mean, when Ned Stark arrived with his six companions, what if the Kingsguards were there not because of Jon or Lyanna? What if they were actually guarding Rhaegar? If you think about it a minute, if Rhaegar somehow survived The Battle of Trident, where would he go first? Maybe he was wounded and he thought he would't live much longer. He most likely knew that Lyanna is pregnant, so... what if he just wanted to be with her again, maybe one last time? Perhaps Ned Stark even knew (or at least suspected) that Rhaegar survived the battle and was looking for him and for Lyanna, of course (or trying to find out if he really died). He suspected they are in Dorne. To get there, he had to pass the Tower of Joy because it was the only way to get there. And then, surprise! The three members of the Kingsguard. As someone said, Ned wasn't that stupid and realized what their presence means. A member of royal family. Guess who. Aerys, Elia, Rhaenys, Aegon... killed, for sure. Rhaella and Viserys... fled, for sure. And then we have the crown prince. Yeah, we saw how Robert's warhammer hit the black armor and the chest beneath it. No more, no less. So, Ned asked a few carefully worded questions. The question about the King, they said they weren't there, otherwise Aerys would yet sit the throne. Clearly he does not anymore. But the Trident... Woe to the usurper, if they were there. Nothing about the prince, how he would yet command his men or something. Not that clear he doesn't anymore. What about Storm's End? All those guys bent the knee.. Our knees do not bend easily. Our new king is not that easy to kill. Though maybe wounded, at that point, Rhaegar still lived. We had to be with him. Then or now. We swore a vow. The question about the Queen and prince Viserys, similar answer. We are the Kingsguard. We guard the king in the first place. Not queen, not heir, not usurper. Guess who is the king now when Aerys is dead. Of course they had to fight Ned, even if they knew he just wanted to see his sister. They could not allow Usurper's close friend anywhere near their (probably weakened and wounded) king. One more thing. People speculate a lot if Jon could be legitimate son of RT and discuss if Rhaegar secretly married Lyanna and Targaryen polygamy and whatnot. Well, if he was still alive at the Tower of Joy when Ned got there, he could marry Lyanna openly because at that point, poor Elia was already dead. They could even marry right there, on the spot. And Rhaegar, freshly re-married, named the place The Tower of Joy. Few days later, his new wife gave birth to his trueborn son. What do you guys think? Is it at least remotedly possible? Thanks for your opinions, I always enjoy reading them.