shadows and dust

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About shadows and dust

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  1. Because, like many great and powerful men, he was a hypocrite. He expected from his children the sacrifice for family commitments he wasn't willing to make himself.
  2. Because Robert and Ned would be learning about the twincest simultaneously. Ned goes out of his way to protect the kids because it's in his ability to do so. If Robert and Ned found out together, Ned does not have the opportunity. It's a completely different scenario. There is a huge difference b/w advising someone to flee wrath and actively assisting in their escape/protection. I would easily grant Ned does not wish to see the children killed; but he knows the law like he knows Robert, so he knows their life is forfeit. The passage quoted above essentially says as much.
  3. It is high treason to cuckold the King and present your illegitimate children as heirs to the throne. They are the product of incest, an abomination, in addition to the product of treason. They have to be culled. Their would be no way around it. Ned can say, "not on my lawn, my house my rules." But that is it. Those kids die. My guess is Ned sees this, or is told as much by his people. He knows if he lets Robert leave with the kids, their death could be cruel and fueled by rage. He cannot stop it, just keep it painless.
  4. Nope. Don't see any chance of Ned getting Robert to spare the kids here. Only thing he'd likely be able to prevent is torture. I'm thinking sequence of events is: Children are given an overdose of sweet sleep or something similar as an act of mercy. They could die from that, or be smothered with a pillow, same difference. Then Ned, as executioner, beheads Jamie and Cersie. The 5 Lannisters are sent on a barrow back to Casterly Rock. Robert stays North awhile to mourn and chill with Lyanna's ghost. The experience hardens Ned and gives him the out he was looking for to turn down Hand. End.
  5. It's extremely likely he did not; it will most likely be shown as plot service used by a poorly written show, and not of a talented author. To say Rhaegar could have forced one through is one thing. To say Elia Martell would have been completely in the dark is a whole different thing. It's not like Elia was a country bumpkin maiden and Rhaegar this political schemer. Elia had multiple children, and had been around for years. You think she didn't have people loyal to her? She would have been completely and utterly unaware she had been annulled? That her children were retroactively bastards? Do you think Rhaegar would do that to his children? Because that's what an annulment is. It's not a divorce. It says, this never happened. That makes children of the union bastards. So if it happened, Elia knew. And if she knew, Doran or another Martel knew. And if other Martells knew, there's no way this is the first we're hearing of it. side note, that would make Aegon a Waters. And that, at least, is amusing in its irony. Considering the hundreds of thousands of words on this site bickering between Targ and Blackfyre.
  6. The same topic was recently closed in the Winds of Winter forum; it's still in the top 5-10 topics on that board. I think there is some very salient points there in the early pages, especially. Many would agree that under the current pacing, assuming justice for most of the main storylines, it would indeed take more than 2 books to finish the story. Personally, I see two trump cards that are playable/palatable for finishing the story in 2 books, without feeling rushed. The first, sounds like a great deal of fun to read, but wouldn't be my choice. If winter is a great deal more cataclysmic than we currently assume. Storylines can wrap up quickly if the end result is death. What if, after the first third of the book (mainly wrapping up Mereen fight, and Winterfell fight) WOW is just a wasteland romp of death and devastation. Winter, Army of Darkness, just crushes through everything. No one has proper stores because of war. Folks are just getting killed or starving or killing themselves ahead of the first two plights at every turn. The whole thing is like a horror movie. The pockets of humanity holding out across the map 'dream of spring' as some Hail Mary miracle they know will never come. Likely in this scenario, the miracle arrives, with Danny showing up in Westeros 1/3 of the way into ADOS with dragons and a fresh army with supplies and turns back the night. Bittersweet is the Targ on the IT for 7 Kingdoms that have a population that's been reduced by 90% and is littered far and wide by the dead and formerly walking dead alike. The other option for a 2 book resolution - that I favor - is Aegon is less a Quentyn-like throwaway plot moving character, and more of an answer to the knot. Obviously not the way GRRM originally envisioned the books - but then he also envisioned a trilogy and shipped Jon and Arya, so things change. I've heard how GRRM has said he knows the fates of certain main characters, but less-so the fates of the peripherals. But I've always taken that more in the important deaths that need to happen, and those who he expects will live through the end of the book. It never meant their paths were set in stone, just that they'd live (or not) to walk them. I think there's a fluidity to the story that extends beyond peripheral characters. The largest obstacle to a 2 book resolution is the timing it would take for Danny to finish up her stuff in Essos, get to Westeros, and then do what she needs to do there - without the story/plot shitting the bed. (exhibit 1: GOT) If we eliminate the idea that she ever needs to step foot in Westeros, the timeline for 2 books clears up a great deal. In WOW the North Fights itself, and begins its fight with the dead. (likely ending WOW on a bad note). In WOW, Aegon takes the throne and the Riverlands and Vale storylines can figure themselves out/get linked up with one another. And in WOW Danny can have her Dosh Khaleen vision quest and lots of drama and whatever. End result - she stops with her insipid usurper's dogs nonsense and realizes Essos has crowned her and loved her and she's not leaving her people. Because -lets be serious for a second- she should have zip, zero, and no illusion that if she leaves Slavers Bay she is turning her people over to Civil War, death, and slavery. There's no plot device I can think of that brings the whole slave-population of Slaver's Bay to Westeros by boat. ASOS then would be left with finishing Jon/et al winning the war vs the dead, rebuilding life in the north and the wall/wilding stuff. Aegon finishing a fight with Euron to stabilize the lower 6 kingdoms and bring peace. Danny essentially ending the Essos slave cartel by sacking Volantis with help of slave revolt, becoming a ruler of her new "7 kingdoms." (I don't know, just running with scissors now - figure a kingdom she rules stretching from Voltanis to Qarth with the Dothraki Sea as her northern border. (like "the north" in the Westeros 7k) Then just general winding down of the story, fleshing out the nebulous future and whatnot.
  7. I've already reimagined the GOT TV series had SCIFI channel bought the rights first.
  8. The adding, IIRC, was explained as laying little rocks and gravels to the always icing over top. This helped with footing. And -over thousands of years- little rocks + ice + little rocks + ice + little rocks + ice equaled a slowly inching higher wall. But I haven't read Book1 in a decade, so I could be completely off base.
  9. So, if you know you cannot win a war. And you know your immediate family wants revenge. And you feel very strongly that those you want revenge on are instable and likely to self-combust.... Isn't your best option to stay neutral while cultivating a reputation as a thinker and a schemer and making little missions with nebulous end-games to keep people thinking that you're trying to advance your cause? If Doran had just said, "Listen, it sucks what happened, but Robert and the Lions would shred us if we went to war. That said, they're really shitty people, and over enough time people will figure that out. I bet within a generation there will be other uprisings. If we just chill out for 20 years, we should be in a good situation. Our best revenge is to live a good life and be happier and healthier than those who wronged us." He would have ignored at best and overthrown at worst. But if he's a "schemer", and people truly think he's doing things behind the scenes - even if they think he's being too slow or too cautious - they at least think he's trying.
  10. I mean, he's managed to keep his nation out of the W5K, without making an enemy out of any of the major players. Whoever won the battle would have no reason to think any more or less of Dorne than before the conflict. They've sustained nearly no casualties, and have a handful of well positioned noble ladies to sure up alliances in the future. If you look at the long-long game, Doran may simply have decided the Lannister/Baratheon reign was too hard to fight, but also too combustible not burn out within a generation or two. All he had to do was wait out Tywin the pyromancer, remaining agile enough to step up in whatever vacuum their crumbling dynasty allows for. Perhaps Doran's greatest trait from a leadership POV is not letting himself need to exact revenge. He certainly wants to; but he's led with a viewpoint of what's best for Dorne - not what's best for Doran. (just devils advocate here. truly I find the whole thing needlessly elaborate and inconsequential)
  11. I say, if the narrative is fluid, then the narrative is fluid. I find it inconsistent to say Danny must travel to Westeros to firefight White Walkers just because that's how George saw the story 20 years ago. The story has grown, the author has grown (not a fat joke), and the story may pivot irrevocably from his original flow chart.
  12. Not to beat a dead horse, but having Aegon replace Danny in the Westeros plot - seeing as how he's already there and leaving Danny to play our her story in Essos - sure would cut a bunch of knots.
  13. Yup. End the first with The Reaver. Start the second book with Melisandre I (ADWD) and no one's really complaining.
  14. Sets precedent. We are not doing this for shits and grins. If you promise me a payment, a payment will be received.
  15. I think she's the only introduced character that would make sense, in that fashion. I think the white woman is either a metaphor, a character as yet un-met, or a nightmare vision of the MoD. *That's not to say I think Danny ends up with him, or even that they ever meet. This vision could easily be that movie-scifi trope of a character having a flash-forward nightmare of what would happen if the bad guy wins. So this would be Aeron's nightmare version of Euron conquering all with the demonic MoD queen by his side.