Macgregor of the North

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About Macgregor of the North

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    Clan Motto: "Royal is my Race".

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    The North of Scotland.

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  1. An attempt at Symbolism in regards to a Black stone theory of mine.

    I must admit I haven't really thought of that angle, I guess I have always just envisioned the lands always being where they are now but now that you mention it, its worth pondering isn't it. I wonder what GRRM would say to that question, did the magical event that caused the Long Night and wonky seasonal patterns also cause a polar shift?. Interesting to ponder.
  2. An attempt at Symbolism in regards to a Black stone theory of mine.

    I'm almost certain in my own personal view that Dragons and such creatures as Wyverns etc originated in Asshai. I still have obscene amounts of work to do pulling together all the quotes etc to try and back up my theory as a whole piece of work.. The Black stone being present in the Heart of Winter though, that may require searching for more possible symbolic clues, or waiting for the next book/s. Hey ho, there's plenty more to theorise over and chat about in the meantime.
  3. The White Walkers are the Others. The Others are the White Walkers.

    Yup, you dragged the thread on to the topic of interpretation so I'm curious as to what your view is on that part of the Bran Nan convo as I'll admit freely, I think you see it as having more than one meaning, and I obviously don't. A simple yes or no will do. Do you see a fabulous beast or a normal cat?. The fabulous beast being there's a hidden meaning there pointing to a third species, the Others, that we haven't seen yet. Or. The simple Cat. Nan thinks that the White Walkers are the Others. No need to beat about the bush, simple answer will do.
  4. An attempt at Symbolism in regards to a Black stone theory of mine.

    Yup I'm in agreement there. We're on the same page quite a bit here. I think that the creation of the Dragons and the Others was possibly at the same time, or more like from the same event/disaster/magical cataclysm, like a balance of sorts, but it's out of balance now if you get my meaning. I cant see the logic of the Dragons being around for years before the Others or vice Versa. I think that Brans vision with how it flits between the two polar regions is highlighting the two areas these threats originate from. And they are a threat, both of them. Dragons aint the solution to the problem, these beings of Ice and Fire are both hazardous. Two devastating forces from each side of the spectrum, created or evolved through some magical happening of sorts in each Polar region. And my nose is telling me to sniff in the direction of Black moon stone being at the heart of it.
  5. An attempt at Symbolism in regards to a Black stone theory of mine.

    Yes there could be some kind of genetic experiments in history that was powered by the stone, there is talk that Dragons were created using Wyvern stock, so maybe the magical upheaval caused by the stone falling to Asshai kickstarted the evolution of Wyverns and such like and Dragons were created from this first species? Speculating heavily of course. Ive also played with the idea the Others were possibly an ancient tribe of first men who lived in the far far North of the Lands of Always Winter and the stones energy corrupted them to become the Others. This is largely due to this tidbit from the WOIAF: "Archmaester Fomas's Lies of the Ancients—though little regarded these days for its erroneous claims regarding the founding of Valyria and certain lineal claims in the Reach and westerlands—does speculate that the Others of legend were nothing more than a tribe of the First Men, ancestors of the wildlings, that had established itself in the far north. Because of the Long Night, these early wildlings were then pressured to begin a wave of conquests to the south. That they became monstrous in the tales told thereafter, according to Fomas, reflects the desire of the Night's Watch and the Starks to give themselves a more heroic identity as saviors of mankind, and not merely the beneficiaries of a struggle over dominion." If I'm honest though, I don't really lean to the idea the Others are corrupted men. For some reason I think they are their own unique species, GRRM says "Inhuman, a different sort of life". Im not totally sold they were men but can't rule it out.
  6. Why don't we know who won the melee at Harrenhal?

    I said Ned remembers vividly that Robert was in it, in response to people being unsure if he even participated.
  7. An attempt at Symbolism in regards to a Black stone theory of mine.

    Hey cheers for commenting, yup a tricksy bird it is indeed. On the Bran quote you left, this is where I first noticed a couple things. It is the furthest part Bran drifts to in that direction and when it tells us Dragons "stirred beneath the sunrise", that (to me at least) seems like it speaks of an awakening, kind of like their first coming forth into the world, stirring, and the sun rising and all that. Not necessarily that he witnessed the birth of Dragons at that moment but that the text inspires that idea in my head in its description. Also, if I go by my theory that a black moon stone fell to Asshai and this set in motion the evolution/creation of Dragons, it stands to reason that a similar thing may have happened in its polar opposite, the Heart of Winter, where the "Ice" to the Dragons "Fire" originate from, the Others (in my opinion). And Bran sort of highlights that the areas are the polar opposites because when he reaches Asshai where the Dragons stir, he then drifts to the other end of the world, the other polar region, the Heart of Winter. So in regards to some sort of balance I am searching for a similarity between the creation/evolution of these two beings of Ice and Fire, the Others and the Dragons. This is what triggered my search that there may be evidence of black moon stone in Asshai's polar opposite, the Heart of Winter. And I turned to Symbolism. Incase your wondering, I do think the Cotf are involved somewhere in the Others creation. I have a feeling they pulled of one of the biggest blood sacrifices of all time which upset the very balance of the skies atmosphere and possibly sent a Comet hurtling into the second moon and its pieces rained down on "earth". Its a hefty theory to try and piece together but I feel there may be something to it and I'll happily pursue it while I think it has legs.
  8. Ice Spiders. Have we read about one?.

    You have attempted to establish that Lightbringer is made of Dragonglass on a thread that isn't about that, then proceeded to assert that I believe this, in agreement with yourself, which is false, all with a certain smugness I'll add. If you wanna contribute to the thread, discuss what I propose in the OP, if you don't wanna do that, go make a thread that discusses how you think Lightbringer is made of Dragonglass.
  9. Ice Spiders. Have we read about one?.

    Looks like we aren't in complete agreement about anything actually and your tone has a hint of attitude to it so to keep it civil here wind it down a bit.
  10. Warning, complete speculation my part here. I'm playing around with ideas that are part of a bigger theory I am trying to organise together. I will attempt a bash at Symbolism here. Although the books are awash with it, it isn't my strongest point although I do look out for it on my reads and see various instances. In this exercise I attempt to see if something I suspect in the books is alluded to with Symbolism. First a TL;DR of a theory I have to lay the groundwork for what I am looking to attempt here. I believe in the idea throughout the books that there was once a second moon in the sky of the magical sort. I believe there is truth in the Qartheen tale that the destruction of this moon heralded the first appearance of Dragons. Not that they poured forth from the moon (egg), but that pieces of this moon plummeted to earth, crashing into various locations and this set in motion (in one location) the first appearance of Dragons. Two such locations where I think pieces of this moon rock fell are what I believe to be Polar regions of (what people refer to as) "Planetos". North: The Far North of the Lands of Always Winter, the Heart of Winter. and South: Asshai by the Shadow. I have the idea that these lands are possibly magical locations in their own right, but when the pieces of magical moon rock crashed into them, they caused such magical upheaval that they set in motion the creation or evolution of the beings of Ice and Fire in our story. The Others, Ice and The Dragons, Fire. I think this Supernatural Cataclysm also set in motion the Long Night and disrupted the seasonal patterns we read of in the story. What I want to attempt to do here is find Symbolic evidence of something I suspect to be (possibly) true in the books. That a piece of or pieces of this magical black moon stone landed in the far North of the Lands of Always Winter, the Heart of Winter. I think there is sufficient evidence in the books that point to Asshai being the place where Dragons originated, and also that Asshai has instances of black moon stone being present in its region. The city is possibly even made from it. While I personally think we can be sure that the Others came from and come from the Heart of Winter, what I have never heard of is any evidence that a piece of or pieces of magical black moon rock/stone can be found beyond the curtain of light in the Heart of Winter. Certainly Bran and Bloodraven haven't felt like giving any highly detailed descriptions of the area yet to help me out. Wait though, these books are clever and sometimes GRRM hides things for us, or leaves clues, he foreshadows cleverly and he uses Symbolism for certain things. So here is my attempt to see if I can find evidence this way. I am wondering if Castle Black and it's scattered towers of stone etc. (the pieces of Black moon stone) which lie in the shadow of the Wall (the curtain of light) are the indicators I'm looking for that there is indeed a piece (Castle Black as a single unit) or pieces (the various stone towers) of this magical black moon stone/rock in the Heart of Winter just past the curtain of light (the Wall). I'll bold certain standout words that relate to the topic. Obviously I'm looking for reference to the colour black, stone, the moon, the curtain of light... you get the idea. AGOT JON III: "When they finally spied Castle Black, its timbered keeps and stone towers looked like nothing more than a handful of toy blocks scattered on the snow, beneath the vast wall of ice." Here the stone towers of Castle Black are scattered around in the snow beneath the vast wall of ice which could be likened to the curtain of light. AGOT TYRION III: "Then he was above the towers, still inching his way upward. Castle Black lay below him, etched in moonlight. You could see how stark and empty it was from up here; windowless keeps, crumbling walls, courtyards choked with broken stone." Castle blacks towers here likened to broken stone, with a reference to the moon with moonlight being mentioned. ASOS JON VI: "As the stars began to fade in the eastern sky, the Wall appeared before him, rising above the trees and the morning mists. Moonlight glimmered pale against the ice. He urged the gelding on, following the muddy slick road until he saw the stone towers and timbered halls of Castle Black huddled like broken toys beneath the great cliff of ice." More reference to the stone towers of Castle Black, moonlight and the cliff of Ice which could be possible reference to "curtain of light". ADWD JON XIII: "The Shieldhall was one of the older parts of Castle Black, a long drafty feast hall of dark stone, its oaken rafters black with the smoke of centuries." A weaker one here perhaps but still has reference to Castle Black which is always in the shadow of the Wall (possible curtain of light) and also a direct instance of "dark stone". What you guys think, anything here could qualify as Symbolism for the idea I suggest or is it a wrong spy on my part?.
  11. Ice Spiders. Have we read about one?.

    I've had another thought on this topic. If the Spider was a dead Wighted massive creature, then that explains away the body bursting into flame easy enough but it doesn't really help with the blood boiling and the eyes melting as that wouldn't happen to a dead Wighted creature I don't think. So I have sort of returned to my idea of the Spider possibly being more of an Icy creature, if it is indeed even a Spider. Since you can actually set blocks of Ice on fire, I suppose it's body could still burst into flame, it's a magic story we're reading isn't it.
  12. Ice Spiders. Have we read about one?.

    I'm not talking about an Other. I'm talking about a monster which I believe is possibly an Ice Spider. Let's get that clear. And where did you see in anything i stated that I'm in complete agreement with you, or that we are in complete agreement that the sword the hero used in the Long Night was made of Dragonglass?. I must have missed that. And I'm not sure I like your tone here so wind it down a notch to keep this chat nice and civil ok.
  13. Ice Spiders. Have we read about one?.

    Cheers Weirwood Eyes
  14. Ice Spiders. Have we read about one?.

    Lol that was enlightening. To the second part, good spin on it, makes the most sense actually. The Wights are described at times as being Icy. Chetts boil, Thistle is covered in Hoarfrost and has Ice on her hands IIRC, so if large Spiders of the sort you mention (and @King Merrett I Frey does too) we're wighted, as opposed to some sort of separate creation of Ice, that would explain the bursting into flames a bit better. And would also fit with why people think to call them "Ice" Spiders.
  15. Ice Spiders. Have we read about one?.

    I see where your going with that, but the thread isn't really about that. It's about the possibility that the Hero of the Long Night, which in this instance the Jade Compendium names Azor Ahai, fought an Ice Spider and that was his monster.