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Everything posted by Pukisbaisals

  1. It's not just unlikely, it's not possible. Both Rhaenyra and Laenor looked Valyrian, so they had recessive genes (bb alleles according Punnett square). Their children couldn't be dark haired. More chances that Robert is real father of Cersei's children. Robert's grandma was Targaryen princess, so he could have recessive Valyrian gene. Robert's Valyrian gene combined Cersei's golden blond would result in golden blond (like Cersei) child. Chances were 50/50. Chances for three blond children in row are 12,5 to 87,5 -that's unlikely, but still possible. Intermediate colors are also possible (at least in real life). The samples Ned found in the book were 90-120 years old: Dunk and Egg stories took place 90 years ago. Targaryen princess (daughter of Egg) wasn't married to Baratheon yet. And it seamed there were no more marriages between Lannisters and Baratheons after Baratheon wed Targaryen princess. So Ned's conclusion (as well as Aryn's) about "gold yielding before the coal" could not be applied to Robert's children. O course, if Robert didn't inherit his grandma gene, he could be BB, so he had no chance to have blond children. We know about five black haired children of Robert: Mya, Bella, Gendry, Edrick, Barra. But we don't know how all their mothers looked like, so bastards could have inherited hair color from their mothers. Barra's mother was red haired, Gendry's mother was blond. But at least one of Robert's mistresses was black haired: I suspect Becca is Mya's mother, because of big eyes association with owls: So Mya could have inherited her black hair from her mother, not from Robert. Similar situation with bastards of Oberyn Martell. Tyene Sand is blue eyed and golden haired. I would suspect she was not Oberyn's daughter, but Oberyn had Valyrian ancestry (princess Daenerys), so he was possible Valyrian genes carrier. Oberyn could have blond or even Valyrian looking children. Other Oberyn's daughters are dark haired, but their mothers also were dark haired (except from Lady Nym's mother, and I am not sure about Obara's mother). Same with Robert. If he was carrier of Valyrian gene, he could have blond or even Valyrian looking children. I don't really believe Cersei's children are Robert's . But chances that at least one child - Joffrey, Myrcella or Tommen - is Robert's are pretty good. As well as chances that some of unknown Robert's bastards are blond.
  2. Looks like Gwyneth is a bastard. Unless her mother is not blue-eyed blonde.
  3. I think Gerold Dayne descended from Maegor, son of Brightflame and Daenora Targaryen. That could not only explain his Targaryen look, but also his ambitions and why Martells are so concerned about him.
  4. I think we will see another bastard on Estermont: I agree that Valyrian look of children can be explained by presence of recessive Valyrian genes in Martells and Daynes. In fact a number of noble houses could possess minor Valyrian ancestry, because they could had intermarried with descendants of Targaryen princessess – Rhaena (had six daughters with Hightower), Elaena (her children Plum, Penrose and Waters), Aerea and Rhaella (possibly had children), as well as with Valyrian houses Velaryons and Celtigars and noble Lyseni (like Rhogare). But in this case firstborns non-Valyrian looking and younger Valyrian looking children could only be explained by pure coincidence. Cases with firstborn Valyrian looking child and younger children with their mother’s coloring are equally probable, though such cases are never mentioned so far. I agree. Incomplete albinism with very low concentration of melanin explains Valyrian features. It’s caused by defective pigment–related genes. But if normal pigment-related genes could be turned off it would also lead to albinism. That’s why I favor theory of epigenetic origin of Valyrian albinism. In this case Valyrians don’t need to possess any recessive albinism allele at all, just normal color-related genes, only they are turned-off by some mysterious factor in their bodies (blood) which is transferred to their children (save of firstborns). Maybe similar patterns could also explain why traits of other houses (Lannisters, Lothstons/Whents, Durrandons/Baratheons) persist through generations even without high degree of incest. Of course it is fantasy theory of inheritance, but it could work for sci-fi too. So if Ashara Dayne went to North her nose and ears would turn black? So cute, I like this idea .
  5. Genetics of Planetos doesn't have to be identical to real one. Maybe telegony works in ASoIaF fantasy world in contrary to real one. Inheritance of maternal hair and eye color is somehow blocked after first pregnancy. To me, repressing off maternal traits is best and in most simple way explained by some infectious factor (targvirus). Sort of a simple switching maternal pigment genes off. But possibly cells (blood) of first fetus stay in mother's body (thus it resembles microchimerism) and even partially replace mother cells and second child inherits Targ traits both from his mother (in fact from his elder sibling) and father.
  6. I only found this in ACoK, Tyrion IV: and: Plum is dark purple. Just another hint of Strangler color or something more?
  7. In Clash of Kings prologue were hints on Littlefinger's connection to Strangler poison: and again: Such a small man hold the power of life and death? Does "never truly seen the color before" hints that true Littlefinger's color is purple?
  8. I agree. I tried to explain this pattern in this thread on Targaryen heredity First pregnancy affects the mother genes somehow andsecond child doesn't inherit her otherwise dominant traits. Maybe it can be explained as sort of microchimerism (our world phenomenon), telegony or even some transmitted infectious factor which switches maternal color genes off.
  9. Craster had incestuous relationships with his daughters. Casterly was known to have several daughters. Could be possible, that Casterlys also practiced incest - maybe tried to keep their bloodline pure, in a way Targs did? Then Craster and his ancestors just continued this tradition.
  10. Officially Addam and Alyn were legitimized bastards of Laenor Velaryon, only no one really believed it, because Laenor was homosexual. Mushrom provided more plausible version on parentage of Adam and Alyn: Only how Addam could became dragonrider then? Corlys Velaryon was not dragonrider and couldn’t have been of recent Targaryen ancestry. Most likely dragon blood of Addam came from their mother side – Marilda of Hull was dragonseed herself (else their father was not Velaryon, but Targ, maybe Daemon). I have an idea, that Marilda was in fact Saera Targaryen, wayward daughter of Jahaerys and Alysanne. Saera was second youngest daughter of Jahaerys, she could be born in 80 (in awoiaf her birth year is estimated between 62 and 82), then she could be 35 when Addam was born. Sea Snake could easily find her in Essos and secretly bring her back to Westeros as his paramour. Then Marilda is not from Hull town, but from hull of Sea Snake ship . Of course Saera/Marilda could never reveal her true identity, because of her conflict with faith and her pleasure house career. I think this mistake of Old King could be caused not merely by his wish to see long lost daughter, but by some of his prophetic Targ dream about Saera’s coming back in future.
  11. I also came to idea about two non-twin children of Lyanna and Rhaegar. Only I thought maybe first child of Lyanna was born in Winterfell and she was „kidnapped“ after giving birth to her firstborn. Sort of parallel of Bael the Bard story – secret child in Winterfell. But maybe I just was wrong about timelines. Daenerys could be child of Lyanna and Rhaegar only if she is the second born child. This is because her hair and eye color: As many readers has noticed already firstborn children in couples of Targaryen males and non-Valyrian females always had hair and eye colour of their mothers, while second and subsequent children had Targaryen look. So far this rule worked without exceptions (I have an idea how it could work). Firstborn child of Rhaegar and Lyanna could look like Valyrian only if Lyanna had some secret Valyrian ancestry, which is very unlikely (yet not impossible). But golden silver hair is believable if Daenerys is secondborn child of Lyanna and Rhaegar, while Jon Snow is still the best candidate for the firstborn. And though I am not fan of theories R+L=YG, the colouring allows Young Griff to be second born child of Rhaegar and Lyanna as well (in this case he would be 1.5 -2 years younger than he thinks he is). There is also a slim possibility that Young Griff and Dany are twins. Twins could explain why labour of Lyanna was so difficult. And boy could had been spirited from Tower of Joy even before Ned arrived, thus he ended up in charge of Varys. Ned entrusted girl to Ashara Dayne, who swapped her with stillborn child of queen Rhaella.
  12. We expect some abnormalities to show up in children from incest marriages, where rare traits could be inherited from both parents. But Jahaera and her brothers were born not only from Targ incest but from Hightower incest too – Aegon II and Helaena both were half Hightowers. Among Targaryen abnormalities polydactyly and emotionless were never mentioned elsewhere. I think these traits came not from Targ‘s, but from Hightower‘s bloodline. Hightowers are one of oldest and most mysterious families in Westeros. And if rudimentary wings of Targ fetuses hint on kinship between Targs and dragons, then six fingers maybe hint on kinship of Hightowers and some non-humans. For example, CotF had four fingers, maybe some ancient race had six.
  13. I suspect on of the gaolers was rat skinchanger: Rats could be useful if you want explore some dungeons. And dungeons of Dragonstone probably worth exploring.
  14. I noticed some match between Leo Tyrell and Cletus Yronwood. Cletus has lazy eye. Leo Tyrell is has nickname Lazy Leo and one of his eyes is often covered by hair. Here: And: Does this similarity hints at something? Do your have any ideas? Could be possible connection with one eyed Bloodraven or crow eyed Euron?
  15. Not in Myrcella's case. For her it was only random plain dagger. She picked it up accidentally or maybe just because it looked plain. Dagger's mystery solved. Only people think I am crazy because of this Myrcella theory. But it causes least of contradictions. Motive mercy killing, Myrcella good girl, she cares about mercy and minds Robert's and Jaime's judgement on that matter. Opportunity terrible plan, easily caught, but only because she was stranger to Valyrian steel. She had easy access to Robert's weapons. Hiring a catspaw - that's a bit complicated. But Myrcella was royal princess and people obey her. Knights of the KG beat Sansa, because Joffrey told them to, even Arys Oakheart, who was quite nice guy otherwise. And they were annointed knights, noblemen. Myrcella's task, on the other hand, was act of mercy. Assassin didn't plan to harm anyone else. Catelyn's presence in Bran's room was unexpected. And it's all gets more acceptable if we assume that cat's-paw was not picked up from strangers who followed Robert's train but from loyal servants of Myrcella. He might only look wildly after living for some time in stables. I am not joking.
  16. I have no doubt Mance could steal it, only why? If it was just mercy killing, any weapon would suffice.
  17. It wasn‘t written in plain text, but that didn‘t mean Free Cities were idle. They might just not work in open way. Those are just speculative possibilities of alleged plot. Most of Pentoshi plots and actions are unknown. May be they chose different tactics. As I told, killing mother would be very suspicious and it would only lead to new wife. There is nothing exotic required, there are enough poisons acting that way, at least in our world. They wanted power one way or another. And some of them finally got it - by toppling Targaryens, by the way. This is exactly why killing fetuses and newborns draws no suspicion. Real world? Those issues were pretexts, not the reasons. Uprising of Faith militant was well prepared in advance and orchestrated. And probably other turmoil – second Lodos, Vulture King, Harren the Red were set as diversions to shatter the kingdom. But anyway, it seems like we have reached our limits of understanding and further discussion has no prospect.
  18. O course not. He probably saw his brother Tommen as a rival or maybe somehow got idea (somebody put this idea in his head), that he can be disposed in favour of his brother. Which, as we know, finally really happened. Maybe that saved his life during first attempt to hit target. I am absolutely serious about possibility that Myrcella sent catspaw. I warned it's shocking :). I t fits all details. Motif, childish plot, ignorance on Valyrian steel account, possibility to get Robert's dagger. Thats why mercy was Myrcella's motif. Maybe catspaw only looked that way after some time spent in stables (like two weeks?). Myrcella was always described as brave, intelligent and self confident. But yes, hiring catspaw is weakest part of this theory. I have to correct myself - they probably knew about value of valyrian steel, but couldn't recognize it in plain dagger. Dagger is a big problem in Mance's case. Maybe this ironic Cersei's line from ASoS: "Perhaps Myrcella sent this man with the dagger, do you think so?"
  19. How should that make sense? That's like saying it was in Ned's interests to allow Joff to imprison and execute him. Or that Robert had an interest that Cersei fuck Jaime while he was passed out drunk ceryse was only part of plan. While Ceryse was ensuring that Maegor won't have legitimate children, other Oldtown allies dealt with Aenys - he was much easier to cow or influence. Faith militant uprising was also Odtown's doing. And it came close to elimination of Targs. if not for Maegor, Faith militant would exterminate all Targs or made them their puppets. Maegor saved the dynasty. Grandsons had less dragon blood than son. Less chances to succeed. They could, maybe just had no time at the moment.
  20. Why not? She was working for Pentos or maybe for aliance of several free cities. Eradication of Targs was in their best interest. Nothing personal, sheer politics. Targaryens were threat to free cities for two reasons. Directly - as dragonriders - they can turn their dragons east any time. And free cities prefer to deal with separate 7 kingdoms than with one, united under rule of a monarch. Disbanding of the Westeros kingdom would be in best interest of Free Cities. Elimination of Targs would be in best interests of Free cities, Oldtown, and most of great houses of Westeros.... So I see Tyanna as sort of secret agent tasked to eliminate Targs. She almost succeeded - if she found Alyssa's children she could manipulate Maegor in to killing them and then eliminate Maegor himself. She was pretty close to her goal.... And that would be your mistake. Killing children in womb or infancy is less suspicious and easier than killing of grown persons. What makes you think nobody poison them or use magic on them? Maybe did, just circumstances work in Targ's favour. Not in Naerys case, though. Oldtown, for one, as Faith-Hightower-Citadel alliance, lasting for centuries. Free cities - each on their own or various possibly alliances. Any of great houses - they were kings before dragons came. Power of Targs was in their blood, in ability to ride the dragons. To win, you only need to kill one family, that's it. Some of them succeeded - we have a lot of mysterious deaths, stillborns, miscarriages. Some of them were caught - like Tyanna (presumably), Aerys' mistress and his son's wetnurse. Too many players and too few information to see clearer pattern.
  21. Not if that was Oldtown's plan. Yes, this is likely possibility. Tyanna told all of this only to provoke Maegor to give her clean death. Last successful manipulation of spy-mistress. I can't accept this argument seriously. Not sure. Maybe we can answer this question when we ourselves will reach our 80th. Or maybe we should ask Walder Frey. Or maybe that's why Silver Denys needed assistance of his sons. Yes, that's possibly too. I don't think Rhaenyra had time to investigate genealogical trees during Dance of Dragons.
  22. I don't think Tyanna acted driven by personal motifs. Not necessarily. Maybe only Targs or even maybe only Rhaena knew about this. Presence of Maegor's descendant cold renew tension between Targs and Faith, so they possibly wanted to find silent solution. Why so? In background of political situation Targaryen children were in utmost danger. Targaryens had number of very powerful enemies and rivals. So powerful, that surviving of Targaryen clan for three centuries looks like miracle. They couldn't challenge Targs in open war while Targs had dragons. Then they - sooner or later - came to simple conclusion - they need to exterminate the dragonriders, or at least reduce their number as much as possible. And they did that by various means. Setting Targs against each other (Dance of Dragons), organizing assassinations which looked as mishaps (children of Jahaerys), involving them in fruitless marriages (like Rhaenyra and gay Laenor). But I think simplest and probably least expensive way was to kill them in the womb or in infancy. Queens were attended by handmaidens, servants and ladies in waiting, so there were plenty of possibilities to infiltrate hostile agents.
  23. Interesting idea. I think Jeoffrey was capable for killing people for his own purposes, without even a reason to hate them. For example, I think he tried to kill his brother Tommen by arranging “tourney mishap” during his nameday. When Sansa and Hound told him, that killing somebody on nameday might bring bad luck for whole year – having in mind ser Dontos, of course - Jeoffrey not only spared Dontos, but also tried to stop Tommen from riding. Finally Tyrion’s arrival interrupted Tommen’s sport and saved his life. But I have another idea about who sent catspaw. I am sorry, it may be shocking for most of you. This possibility was plainly mentioned in ASoS: Well, I really think so. Myrcella sent the catspaw. Or maybe Myrcella together with Tommen. Motif? The same as Jaime proposed in Joffrey’s case – mercy killing. Only we know, that Joffrey was not merciful at all. And he didn’t care about Stark boy. On the other hand Myrcella and Tommen were sincerely compassionate about Bran. In GoT: and: And we know, that Robert justified mercy killing of Bran in front of Cersei and all her children. So did Jaime in conversation with Tyrion: At this moment Cersei, Tommen and Myrcella were leaving Winterfell’s morning room, but they could overhear this. All this explain why assassination plot was so plain – amateur catspaw, traceable dagger. Neither Myrcella nor Tommen understood value and unique of Valyrian dagger.
  24. I tend to think that Maegor was fertile and Tyanna was really a poisoner. If this is true, then curious possibilities occur. First, at time of Maegor’s death Rhaena could be on early stage of pregnancy. With Elinor pregnant and other wives dead Maegor probably visited Rhaena more often. And, if Tyanna really was poisoner, then nothing threatened Raena’s child after her death. So Rhaena could even give Maegor a healthy posthumous child. Such child would be a huge inconvenience to Targaryen clan, so they probably raised him under false identity. Farman, perhaps? Another possibility – Rhaenyra’s daughter probably also was poisoned (maesters?). Rhaenyra gave birth to five healthy sons before Vysenya and Daemon fathered two healthy daughters. It is difficult to explain why Vysenya was malformed, unless as a girl she got too much of dragon blood from her pure dragon parents. Further some tiny details which, to my opinion, speak in favour of Tyanna as poisoner. Tyanna predicted, that Elinor’s child also will be monstrous. She could know this if she poisoned her herself, else she knew something for sure about Maegor’s nature. But Vysenya also had to be aware on Maegor’s nature and she seemed to believe that Alys Stokeworth could give heir to Maegor. Monstrosities of Maegor’s wives looked a little bit different. Fetuses of Jeyne and Alys were similar, but one of Elinor’s was as at different stage of development, with wings. Tyanna died when Elinor was still pregnant, maybe thus poisoning was interrupted and fetus evolved to different stage of development. Of course it could be explained in right opposite way – Maegor was sterile and monstrosities were result of Tyannas efforts to get children (interrupted in Elinor’s case, thus her monstrosity looked different). There is also one a little bit suspicious moment involving Ceryse. When septon Murmison tried to make her fertile (at that time nobody yet suspected, that Maegor was the one who was sterile) she run to Oldtown. If women wanted to give heir to the prince she would probably tried all possible means, whatever stupid they may look. Maybe Ceryse avoided pregnancy herself and was afraid that Murmison could discover that. I think strongest argument on Maegor’s sterility is absence of his bastards. But Maegor was never told to frequent brothels. Maybe he didn’t need to, he was married at very early age and later had multiple wives. True family guy. On the other hand if Tyanna controlled fertility of his wives, she could also get rid of all possible bastards and their mothers. As a spy mistress she had all means for that and no scruples. Then the only gap of time, when Maegor could sire a bastard was after Tyanna’s death, during last months of his own life. Silver Denys fits this timeline if we believe, that he was trying dragonriding on his 80th anniversary. But if he inherited Maegor’s strength and temper, why not.
  25. That is exactly why Tyanna didn't give Rhaena time to examine girls closely. She didn't allowed her to see them before wedding ceremony. She hoped to trick her. It is not clear if she even succeded in that. Rhaena could understand ruse instantly, but kept playing ignorant. Also there is possibility that imposters were provided by Rhaena's allies. In this case Tyanna was fooled. May be most plausible is sort of combination of both. Tyanna caught some girls, but she suspected that they were imposters. So she didn't risk to show them to Rhaena before the wedding. Yeas, such a claim would be impossible without Rhaena acknowledging princesses in public. Maybe they weren't acknowledged for that reason - that could mean war between Rhaena's brother and her sons in law. Claim could be always improved by an army. Real Aerea and Rhaella probably became dragonriders and they probably expected Rhaena to join them. On the other hand, at that time nobody knew that marriage of Jahaerys and Alysanne would be so fruitful. "Powerfull alies" are mentioned in TSotD. Or maybe this only interpretation of maester who wrote TSotD. As for other great houses - Casterly Rock wasn't besieged, they could send envoys.