Darkstream

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About Darkstream

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    Lord Commander of the GRRMsguard
  • Birthday February 16

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    Edmonton

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  1. Or, say, to necessitate an army's ability to travel a couple of leagues, in a light snowfall. ...just saying. Heh heh.
  2. And what? Did BR fall asleep during the most crucial moment in his plan? Because if Cat had ran out to the library with Robb, Summer Bloodraven would have arrived too late, and Bran would be dead. Seems like quite the risky plan, just as is counting on Bran not dying from his fall.
  3. What? So in one thread you argue that Stannis is a rambling mad man that everyone in the realm hates, making absurd claims that he has no proof of, but then to suit your argument in this thread, all of a sudden you contradict that, and state that he has a reputation of honesty, and should be trying to convince that very faction - which he is currently at war with, and of whom consider him to be a traitor - of the situation beyond the wall. This makes no sense at all.
  4. No, what's sad is your inability, or unwillingness to recognize context, circumstance, and intent. To be a treasonous traitor, one must commit an act with the willful intent to sabotage the cause of those that you are aligned to. In none of the examples you've provided - in which Jon has either broken, or walked the line in breaking his vows - was he intending to impede the cause of the Nights Watch, nor had his allegiance to the Watch faltered. And in fact, he made great sacrifice for the Watch, and had to make some very difficult decisions - of which can be argued, there was no right option - wherin he always made the choice that he felt was for the sake and benefit of the Watch, and of mankind. And what's sad is that's you don't realize how worthless these vows actually are. Sure, the intent and purpose of these oaths may have admiral goals in mind, and are all fine and dandy in theory, however, life and the tribulations that you must face throughout, are not as black and white as you would put forth, and wish them to be. The reason that GRRM reinforces the importance of these vows in AGoT, as you've pointed out, is so that he can effectively show the dire consequences of one commiting themselves to such limiting and binding shackles. Where is the honor and duty in upholding yourself to a vow your swore, when doing so inhibits you from fulfilling the purpose of taking those vows in the first place? Where is the sense in abiding by laws, put in place to establish and maintain order and civility, when doing so results in a despairing and chaotic society that rewards the vile actions of deplorable and sadistic individuals such as Ramsey and others of his like? What you don't seem to realize is that these vows are to blame for the dire state that the Watch has fallen to. Why do you think the Watch is largely made up of criminals who had no other real options, other than to serve at the Wall? What's really sad, is that due to your own personal bias, you take Jon's actions and decision that were made with the best of intentions, and made in the attempt to do what was the right thing, to the best of his knowledge or understanding, and use them to demonize and condemn him. Did he make mistakes, or let his own bias and feelings cloud his judgement at times? Of course. Who hasn't been guilty of that at some point? But to take these mistakes, and moments of poor judgement, and use them in an attempt to label Jon as a treasonous, oath breaking traitor, or to compare him to the likes of people like Daerion or Janos is just a ridiculously ignorant and asinine stance. Whether or not you agree with the decisions and moves that John made, and whether or not some of those decisions may have happened to coincided in benefiting the personal desires and bias of John, that does not change the fact that he always attempted to do what he felt was best for the prosperity and survival of the Watch, and of mankind. These are not motives and decisions of a treasonous, oath breaking traitor.
  5. Oh? And yet you keep arguing that Jon's most prudent coarse of action is to not do what he thinks is in the best interest of the realms of men, but to sit on his arse and send message after message to the deaf ears of these same Lords - just so that when the extinction of mankind is upon them, with his dying breath he can say, well, at least I didn't break any oaths, nor did I do anything unlawful. This is bs, besides, you think it's OK for him to bury his head in the sand to the threat of the Others, yet instead of accepting that he will receive no support from the Lords of Westeros, you expect him to continue in the hopes that they will finally listen - when it's too late.
  6. Well said. Although, I'm not sure how it can be argued that Bowen was acting lawfully when murdering his Lord Commander in cold blood.
  7. You mean like sending an envoy to King's Landing with proof as to the existence of the Others? Only to be ignored and ridiculed. It would be stupid and irresponsible of Jon to just sit on his ass waiting for the help of any of the ignorant and dismissive Lords of Westeros. When facing imminent doom, the smart thing to do is take any action deemed necessary, regardless whether or not it was the perceived "lawful" or "dutiful" thing to do. Jon did do the smart thing, what you propose would be stupid, and unfortunately, he had to deal with the ridiculous attitudes of people who share the same views as you do - nullifying the smart decision he made.
  8. So, what's your point? Ramsey is an illegitimately, legitimized Bolton, who threatened Jon, and the Watch.
  9. Only, you don't want to acknowledge that Jon had accounted for the lack of resources facing the Watch, and had made arrangements to rectify the situation - seeing as all of the Lords in the South that he's supposed to be so obedient to, didn't give a fuck as to their plight, and requests. Thanks to Jon's foresight and negotiations, the Watch would have been better equipped and fed than it had been in a long time. The only viable point I can see from your argument is that fewer men would have died at the hands of a greater number of wights, while defending the wall, but at least they would have died with a full belly. Having hungry men to fight the Others, is better than feeding your enemies with those men.
  10. Really? And should Ramsey have a side dish of Jon heart to feast on with his Reek sausage, how effective do you think Jon would be at defending the realms of men from the Others? Not to mention that yes, any means of getting rid of Ramsey, would be beneficial to man. Just ask Reek, or fArya, or Lady Hornwood, and many, many others.
  11. Vows are just words, are they not? Jon would have to be a complete moron, and a traitor to all of mankind - quite like the men who attempted to assassinate him - in order to stay true to these vows that he swore. In effect, bending the rules of this vow, was the only way to actually stay true to the oath that he swore. One can technically argue that Jon was a traitorous oath breaker, but in fact, he was the only man of the Nights Watch attempting to live up to the true purpose of the vows he swore. What's the point of staying true to an oath, if doing so results in the exact opposite of what that oath is suppose to accomplish?
  12. Oh good. Then you should have no issue with Jon taking actions that conflict with these detrimental and prohibitive laws and customs, in order to ensure the prosperity survival of mankind. Another poster twisting the vows into a literal interpretation in order to support their bias damnation of Jon.
  13. Jon had no intent to win a crown, nor to bask in any glory. I think you are taking that a little bit too literally. I suppose all of the men who died at the fist of the first men were oath breakers as well. The gull of them, to not die at Castle Black, the damn filthy, dirty oath breakers. This is not an equivalent comparison. I don't recall Robert threatening the Watch, and giving an ultimatum to the ninety year old, blind maester, in which if he failed to comply, he would have his heart cut out and eaten. Jon had no intentions of using the Nights Watch to fight for his family.
  14. Uh oh, was my use of the smoking smiley, a blunder akin to Robb marrying Jeyne?
  15. One cannot let happen, what they are powerless to prevent from happening.