Shouldve Taken The Black

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  1. Another thing, he doesn't really identify with his abusers. Sure, he wants to be accepted as a Stark, but he seems to identify closest to those who show him love, and dislike those who show him hate. First Arya, who unconditionally loves him; followed by Robb, who loves him and respects him (though was mean on occasions in their youth); Bran and Rickon, who love and look up to him; followed lastly by Sansa, who treats him as an inferior. He despises Theon and hates Catelyn. It seems the amount of identification there is decreases with the amount of "abuse" he receives.
  2. Surely there's a difference between what Jon experienced and abuse though? Shit, I had a nasty step mother, mean siblings and bullying peers. Who didn't? I wouldn't consider that abuse. Granted, there was an element of discrimination due to his birth status, but I still think the term "abuse" is being used a bit freely. A major part of Jon and Tyrion's not going somewhere else was that they were distinctly better off staying than leaving. Their standing was shit compared to true born legitimate children, but certainly better than if they had run off to sea or something. Anyway, eventually Jon did leave. He opted for going to the Wall.
  3. I hear those words are being inscribed over the entrance to the White House. Kids actually can be very cruel to animals, it's how/if they're disciplined that matters.
  4. Yeah, Joffery made a few comments about and to his mother, but I think he genuinely feared her (such as when Tyrion suggested they send for Cersei when he was beating Sansa), and was happy for her to run the kingdoms. Just generally, Cersei seemed to have a terrible parenting style. Shower a boy, who as a Prince doesn't exactly need confidence boosts, with smothering affection, tell him he, his wants needs and feelings are the most important things in the world, and smite anyone who tries to check him; and yeah, he'll turn into an egotistical monster. The way I see it – if Robert had been the only parent, Joffery might still have turned into a massive jerk, but that’s all. If Cersei had been the only parent, there’s a very good chance Joffery would have been essentially the same.
  5. I think you’re right. Robert has his share of responsibility for how Joffery turned out. Joff might not have been his son, but he didn’t know that, and at the very least Robert was negligent. That being said, I think Cersei was mostly at fault. She countered Robert’s neglect by showering Joffery with ridiculous notions about what being a king is, and defended him whatever horrendous thing he did.
  6. I would have thought that the son of the heir came before the second son wouldn't they? Age is largely irrelevant.
  7. For me, it's Tyrion and Stannis. There's so many ways that can go, and I can see them truly hating each other, but not underestimating each other.
  8. That's not better that's horrifying!!!
  9. There are some keen family tree writers in the fandom, and they should get onto this immediately.
  10. It was thought so, but Aerys never declared him heir. Aegon/Jon would have strong claims. And frankly, at this point no-one would have given a damn what Aerys wanted. He decidedly chose not to have his throat cut and Jaime outrageously ignored that royal decree.
  11. Fair enough, but I do so we won't find any agreement there. Not really relevant, but valid I guess. He wouldn't have been a "long faced dark haired bastard" (if you agree with R+L=J, which you don't), he would have been a new baby born to Rhaegar's legal (sort of) wife with three of the most honourable kingsguard to back up his claim. It all depends if Aegon is still alive. If he is, he has a stronger claim. If not, the strongest claimant is Jon. The Martells might not be happy. If Aegon was alive they'd probably support him....if not, they might see it as an act of war to kill their sister and nephew and install a Trag-Stark. But then, they weren't exactly thrilled with what actually happened and they sucked it up. The Lannisters would do what was best for their house. They might support the Stark claim, or raise their own (perhaps Viserys). But I can see Tywin accepting it in exchange for suitable concessions. The Greyjoys wouldn't care. The Tyrells - see the Lannisters.
  12. Which Baratheons? Stannis and child Renly? Eddard would declare for Jon. He has a stronger claim than Viserys, and is Lyanna's son.
  13. Thought!!!! Robert's dead, so Jon doesn't have to be passed off as a Snow. There's a Stark-Targaryen claimant. This.
  14. Who else is dead/alive? Rhaegar, Aerys, Aegon? From the OP's question, where Viserys is a claimant, I'm guessing we're saying that Aerys and Rhaegar are both dead too? That would mean that the Rebels had won the Trident and the Lannisters had captured Kings Landing much as happened in the books. Tywin probably wouldn't have felt the need to kill off the Targaryen children if Robert was dead, so I would suggest Aegon was still alive? In which case, Jaime's temptation to crown Viserys/Aegon and install Tywin as Hand would have been even stronger. The Rebels may have wanted to press a claim for Stannis, whose claim would technically be as strong as Roberts was; but the idea of installing a puppet child Targ with a non-aligned Hand would probably have appealed to many. It would have been something which many Rebels, and Loyalists, would have accepted as a compromise.
  15. I think it says elsewhere in the book that Larys "knew the Red Keep better than any man", or somesuch, but I don't have a book handy. Granted, this doesn't mean he used them to spy on court, but it suggests he knows the secret highways and byways. Excellent point. Certainly, the Red Keep was known to be full of ears. This may be a reputation built up over time though, particularly following Bloodraven's tenure. Another good point. I imagine the nature of the Master of Whisperers would depend on the nature of the King. Some may have been much less sinister and just more generally paying informers, hiring people to hang out in taverns listening to what's being said and so forth.