The Fattest Leech

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About The Fattest Leech

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    Forget "lab safety", I want SUPERPOWERS!

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    Somewhere between the barstool and the floor.
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    Sometimes I wrestle with my demons. Sometimes we just cuddle.

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  1. I am going to start a reread with this in mind. Quick question... how much out of the ordinary (aka crackpot) do you allow in your thread?
  2. Why? The maesters are known liars and they subvert truth into what favors them, not anyone else, and certainly not the realm as a whole. You know, the faith of the LiarsR that GRRM has written about many times before.
  3. In short, yes, because that is how we are in real life, and that is much more interesting than a character that is wholly good from start to finish (as well as "bad"). GRRM spins this tale in a myriad of ways: Afterward we got some books signed at the nearby bookstore. I asked Martin "Did you intend for Jaime Lannister to be such a complex character from the beginning, or is that one of the things that grew in the telling?" He said that he likes exploring grey characters and always intended for Jaime to be complex, but some details grew in the telling. 10zlaine told him she likes his blog. He also answered some questions, and had some interesting things to say. He repeatedly emphasized that he prefers to write grey characters, because in real life people are complex; no one is pure evil or pure good. Fiction tends to divide people into heroes who do no wrong and villains who go home and kick their dogs and beat their wives, but that reality is much different. He cited a soldier who heroically saves his friends' lives, but then goes home and beats his wife. Which is he, hero or villain? Martin said both and that neither act cancels out the other. So he said that he likes to paint characters in shades of grey (recurring theme of the weekend, yay! so refreshing from these damn didactic TV show runners... anyway....). And that even what seem like the most horrific people have other sides, aren't pure caricatures of evil, that even Hitler had his nice moments. And he wanted to explore what might cause that kind of villainy, because no one just wakes up and says "I want to be evil today," and that Jaime didn't start out evil--that he actually was a very idealistic young man who was disillusioned by life, and that there was always much more to his killing of Arys than just "evil." Since he was going on so much about Jaime as "exploration of evil" (and I certainly don't think Jaime is evil anymore!) I kind of tried to ask "Do you think he's changed?" to get him to talk about Jaime's redemption arc, so he said something like he wanted to explore the concept of forgiveness and whether it's ever possible to be forgiven for doing such horrible things, and that his goal was to ask the question, not give an answer. >>>Link for these three ((And I must confess, I love grey characters, and those who can be interperted in many different ways. Both as a reader and a writer, I want complexity and subtlety in my fiction)) Q: Another element I liked about the series was the moral relativism of many of the characters. Too many Fantasies rely on the shorthand of truly evil villains in the absolute moral sense, but your characters, while they might commit terrible acts, generally do so either from short-sighted self-interest or because they truly believe they are acting for the best. Was this a deliberate decision, or is it just more interesting to write this way? GRRM: Both. I have always found grey characters more interesting than those who are pure black and white. I have no qualms with the way that Tolkien handled Sauron, but in some ways The Lord of the Rings set an unfortunate example for the writers who were to follow. I did not want to write another version of the War Between Good and Evil, where the antagonist is called the Foul King or the Demon Lord or Prince Rotten, and his minions are slavering subhumans dressed all in black (I dressed my Night's Watch, who are basically good guys, all in black in part to undermine that annoying convention). Before you can fight the war between good and evil, you need to determine which is which, and that's not always as easy as some Fantasists would have you believe. However, all of this said, and after reading several of his past stories that all have a "Ramsay" or "Euron" or "fire follower", he does like to include expendable antagonists that are there just to cause trouble, and then die. Over and over again. It is fun to track
  4. Totally with you here, and good book quotes used And also from the author himself, apparently it is not totally unheard of in history either. While the occurrences are rare, and are taken seriously, exceptions do happen, and I assume that it takes something huge to make that happen... and I can think of a few monumental issues in the current story that would lead to this decision. Q: The second concerns the oaths of the Night Watch, Maesters, King's Guard, silent sisters, etc. Both Robb and Stannis, and presumably Robb's great lords, thought it was possible that Jon could be released form his oaths. Other than the precedent established by Joffrey with Ser Barristan, is there any other past precedent with any of the other organizations were the members swear poverty, celibacy, etc. to be honorably released from their vows? I ask because if the NW has been around for 8000 years, and many great lords and/or their families may have joined (not entirely willing in some cases), there seems to be a lot of potential for "exceptions" to develop as time went on. GRRM: Yes, there have been a few other cases, but they have been very rare. Such vows are taken very seriously.
  5. Correct. Remember when Petyr was giving Sansa that "lesson" in not bloodying her hands? It was told euphemistically using fruit, the stand-in for family/people. Here, Littlefinger is using his dagger to do his work while offering a slice of the "prize" to Sansa (many meanings in the passage). However, Sansa rejects Littlefingers offerings and instead swings her own sword. The northern way, and in her own more Lady-like manner. A Storm of Swords - Sansa VI "So one of the Kettleblacks put the poison in Joff's cup?" Ser Osmund had been near the king all night, she remembered. "Did I say that?" Lord Petyr cut the blood orange in two with his dagger and offered half to Sansa. "The lads are far too treacherous to be part of any such scheme . . . and Osmund has become especially unreliable since he joined the Kingsguard. That white cloak does things to a man, I find. Even a man like him." He tilted his chin back and squeezed the blood orange, so the juice ran down into his mouth. "I love the juice but I loathe the sticky fingers," he complained, wiping his hands. "Clean hands, Sansa. Whatever you do, make certain your hands are clean." Sansa spooned up some juice from her own orange. "But if it wasn't the Kettleblacks and it wasn't Ser Dontos . . . you weren't even in the city, and it couldn't have been Tyrion . . ." "No more guesses, sweetling?" She shook her head. "I don't . . ." Petyr smiled. "I will wager you that at some point during the evening someone told you that your hair net was crooked and straightened it for you."
  6. Yes to everything here. For those of you who have not seen the video yet, here it is... And here is NotaBlog for those who have not seen it yet...
  7. I agree that the vision reads like bullet points to the story. Broad strokes over details, and I do think that author did this as to not do too much telling and showing too early in the story. However, there is another battle at the Trident that is supposed to happen... so, this could be a future vision for Daenerys with her against another "prince" (was Brandon considered a prince?). It is history repeating, just with a twist. When this happens, we will not only get the bullet points, but the details, and whole lot of oh shyteness. DOH! That is a great way to put it
  8. Bear with me for a moment because I think this may be explained by some of GRRM;s other works. I don't have all of these answers, and I know many posters here hate it when any other literary work by the same author is brought up, but this instance that you mention seems to fit his theme of deep, then deeper. In a few of his stories, he (the characters) explain there are two different types of fire, much like Dany's three fires. You think you are "there", but then you are not. It is really an existential crisis. But then in some of his stories he takes it deeper, and the best example I can think of is a short story called "The Second Kind of Lonliness"... holy hells Read it if you can or haven't already. Basically, it is another story that asks was it all worth it if you are left alone in the end? Your mission may be accomplished, foes defeated, but are you happy? And what happens if people forget you- did you ever exist? We see a little of that in this scene: A Storm of Swords - Bran II "Some people hurt others just because they can," said Jojen. "And it wasn't Theon who did the killing at Winterfell," said Meera. "Too many of the dead were ironmen." She shifted her frog spear to her other hand. "Remember Old Nan's stories, Bran. Remember the way she told them, the sound of her voice. So long as you do that, part of her will always be alive in you."
  9. This is an excellent reminder. I had forgotten so many of the smaller details of this fight between Littlefinger and Brandon. I have much respect for you and @PrettyPig, but I can't say that I agree with Dany having any interaction with this reveal at all. However, to me, this reads just like Anne Groell describes GRRM's "three-fold method of reveal", that GRRM is showing the readers over and over these events have happened, and will "again". And I guess by this "again" I mean as we readers discover the Trident/etc story along with Bran, Jon, Jon Con reveals, whoever, that in hindsight we can see that it was right there all along. Showing comes before plain ol' telling in the realm of writing "rules". Plus, in the story, there is the undoubted dichotomy between the "royal" rubies and the "bastard" garnets, and both have an interplay with blood and station.
  10. But keep in mind that the wall holds as long as the brothers stand strong. Well, because of the mutiny, the Wall did not stand strong and is in the process of falling (literately speaking as well as soon physically). There are two kinds of cold, and what Jon felt was the cold that the Others bring. People often use the idea that "blood welled" from the neck wound to mean that blood somehow gushed from Jon to the point that he was bleeding out and dying. Not true in the way the author uses the term. GRRM describes blood welling in no less than eight cases I can find, and none of them are lethal wounds. The character may soon die, but it is always of something else entirely, and not a "blood welling" wound. Yeah, I don't see Jon being dead at all. Dead by story's end? Quite possibly. Severely wounded now at the end of ADWD? Yes. Having his first conscious warg in to Ghost (all other times were not intentional and confusing)? Yes. The proverbial "killing" the boy to let the man be born? Yes. I figure Jon will be "out" for either 3, 9, or 12 days, and all for different possible reasons. To the bold about the Wall, maybe this? This main idea is brought up a few times. Here is one of them: A Storm of Swords - Samwell II "We never knew . . ." "We never knew! But we must have known once. The Night's Watch has forgotten its true purpose, Tarly. You don't build a wall seven hundred feet high to keep savages in skins from stealing women. The Wall was made to guard the realms of men . . . and not against other men, which is all the wildlings are when you come right down to it. Too many years, Tarly, too many hundreds and thousands of years. We lost sight of the true enemy. And now he's here, but we don't know how to fight him. Is dragonglass made by dragons, as the smallfolk like to say?" "The m-maesters think not," Sam stammered. "The maesters say it comes from the fires of the earth. They call it obsidian." - And we all know this... these are all things that will happen when the real watch starts... and not from just one man, but from the many who stand together, not just certifiedR Night's Watch brothers... "Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come." A Storm of Swords - Bran III I won't be afraid. He was the Prince of Winterfell, Eddard Stark's son, almost a man grown and a warg too, not some little baby boy like Rickon. Summer would not be afraid. "Most like they're just some Umbers," he said. "Or they could be Knotts or Norreys or Flints come down from the mountains, or even brothers from the Night's Watch. Were they wearing black cloaks, Jojen?" "By night all cloaks are black, Your Grace. And the flash came and went too fast for me to tell what they were wearing." -And there is a reason why the select few in the story are the chosen ones, they know what to do based on some sort of "instinct", and something older and truer than these empty words in-world people fight about now, as Marsh shows in this scene. A Dance with Dragons - Jon XI Jon's anger flared. "No, my lord, I mean to set them to sewing lacy smallclothes. Of course they shall be trained at arms. They shall also churn butter, hew firewood, muck stables, empty chamber pots, and run messages … and in between they will be drilled with spear and sword and longbow." Marsh flushed a deeper shade of red. "The lord commander must pardon my bluntness, but I have no softer way to say this. What you propose is nothing less than treason. For eight thousand years the men of the Night's Watch have stood upon the Wall and fought these wildlings.[<<<BIG clue that Marsh does not know the meaning of the vows. He has "forgotten" as Mormont says] Now you mean to let them pass, to shelter them in our castles, to feed them and clothe them and teach them how to fight. Lord Snow, must I remind you? You swore an oath." "I know what I swore." Jon said the words. "I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men. Were those the same words you said when you took your vows?"
  11. There is a show out there based on A Song of Ice and Fire???? Why hasn't anyone told me? Where is it? I have never seen it.
  12. @Lady Dacey Here is one of the discussions. It starts a little before this post, and goes a little after, with a few good links thrown in there just to keep you reading for a good long while
  13. Yeah, I think it is only Lysa who wears make up in the current story. I looked and looked and only ever found some obscure references to a select, random culture over in Essos, but I cannot remember who they are at the moment. Um minuto, por favor... @Lady Dacey here is a link to one of the discussions. This is one my own comments I found, but you can see it starts just before this and goes on after. Maybe I will bump it with your name tagged if anyone else wants to read and comment there. There was another discussion about this topic in another thread as well, but I am still looking for it.
  14. Nothing. If the author wanted one he would have given us one. Corlys Velaryon was almost there. When it happens, we readers of all of his work will know. So far, it hasn't happened. The author will reveal the information about this tourney when necessary. If he tells us back in books 2, 3, or 4, what the answers to some of the biggest mysteries are, then that sorta leaves the final books unnecessary to a large degree. It is a planned reveal that keep us readers chomping between the book releases. What Howland and Meera/Jojen tell is not cherry picking. It is the slow reveal of information done in a methodical way, otherwise they would just be exposition machines that just dribble out everything we need to know. There is more to be revealed, but what we know is not a lie, but may not be what we the reader assumes. The author loves the use of his ellipses ... in every major detail we need to know about. Just as what's his face walks in when Nan was getting to the major details of the scary stories for Bran. Eddard ain't the brightest tool in the knife drawer on many issues. I like Eddard, but even when he speaks to Arya, he misses the point of what the other person is saying and makes illogical calls in result. I would never dream of such an abominable thing to do. I don't buy into bought and paid for fanfiction. The books are canon, and that is it. I have also said many times that the story isn't over until we read the words "the end". And to narrow down what I was saying before, no, I do not see anything in the books leading to Rhaegar being gay or bi-sexual. This tourney is not like the other tourneys. Everything from those involved in the planning, to the location, to the attendants, it all works together for a specific reason. There might be some tourney foreshadowing when it comes to certain Sansa arcs, and that does include Sansa also being like a new/junior version of Lyanna (not just an Arya-Lyanna parallel). Well, the idea of blood and kings blood and all of that may not be so much a percentage, but who has the right drop. You can be only 1/20 Targaryen, but if you have the right drop ( dare I say gene?), and maybe the blood sacrifices to assist, then maybe that is the mixture? Brown Ben Plumm is probably a current story example of this. But what does it add to the story? That is always the most important question. The author has never shied away from male-male romances in any of his stories ever, and we even have some in ASOAIF. We already have a male love triangle with Rhaegar in the way of Jon Connington, who is alive and active in the story and wants vengeance (there is that cyclical enemy of humanity again) for his silver prince.
  15. Yes, This topic has been discussed many times by everyone claiming his Targ madness will reveal itself, to generic North/Jon/Stark haters that claim he will get lost in his wolf and go crazy. He probably will have tough transition from boy to man, but then will gain control. The author is not wasting five books on Jon just to make him "disappear".