chris1994

Yeah I think that would be better... And in general, I would find it easier to understand if they were differentiated somehow, perhaps in size or otherwise. Maybe even with a very short explanation next to or under the sigil? Because for character with many sigils it's sometimes hard to see which are more or less important, which are actually used like personal sigils and which are just by default like House sigils and so on. Like I said, a very short information would absolutely suffice, just to be a little clearer. Like for Lysa, you could have: Tully sigil: By birth Arryn sigil: By 1st marriage (Petyr) Baelish sigil: By 2nd marriage Or for Brienne: Tarth sigil: By birth Rainbow sigil: By Rainbow Guard Tully sigil: By allegiance Dunk sigil: Personal sigil

Displayed are usually the sigil of your own House and/or order (like the Night's Watch or Kingsguard) plus any personal sigils that the character bears or has borne at any time plus the sigils of Houses that the character has sworn allegiance to (without him being a default bannerman of that House). So for example Brienne's article notes the Tarth sigil, the rainbow-coloured one from the Rainbow Guard, the Tully sigil because she swore allegiance directly to Catelyn Tully and her family and the Dunk sigil because at one time she used a shield that she had painted over with this sigil. The original sigil on this shield was the Lothston sigil but she never identified with this House, swore any allegiance to it (it's extinct anyway) and never uses it explicitly as her personal sigil, so you wouldn't want to include that on the character's page. Also, she has technically an allegiance to House Baratheon since Tarth is in the stormlands, but as I said, you wouldn't include that sigil either because it's just silly to have to include the sigil of every lesser House's overlord for every character.

Yeah had that problem also sometimes... I would click on Desktop version on the bottom of the page, and it would be alright, but as soon as I reloaded it, it would be in mobile formatting again.

So using this bridge, when it is completely implemented and funtional, will you be able to once again register on the wiki using a forum account?

Yeah I guess this is one of those situations where the blazon and the artistic interpretation of the blazon have affected each other retroactively which really shouldn't happen. You see, on the one hand you have the description of the sigils in the books which are done using everyday English. Now you've got to try to transform this description into a blazon, including everything that was described in the books and possibly, when necessary, adding information that was implied in the original description but needs to be added in a formal blazon. On the other hand, because GRRM breaks with traditional heraldry, you sometimes can't blazon a sigil exactly like you would want to. Now the one who tried to put the Karstark sigil into a blazon used the "sun-in-splendour" for the sunburst which is a good decision since that is definitely the closest you can come to a sunburst using traditional blazoning. But now the sun-in-splendour is traditionally depicted with a face (but not always) so an artist reading the blazon without knowing the sigil in advance would naturally paint it with a face. I agree that it should be removed but you see the problems that can occur here.

So should I go on doing this? I would edit it myself in the wiki, but as you know, it's currently impossible to join the editors. I don't want to litter this thread with endless blazons either, so should I just send a list of those that should be corrected to one of the editors?

Hey, so I thought I had posted this before but it must have somehow not gotten through, maybe my Internet was down, idk. Anyway I've said before that the inconsistency concerning the description of House coats of arms really annoys me. So sometimes there is only a normal English description (House Stark) and sometimes there is only the formal blazon (House Cerwyn). Mostly, however, both are used, first the English description and then, in Italic and in parentheses, the blazon, so I would propose doing that everywhere. Moreover, some descriptions or blazons are just incorrect (House Bolton) ore use, in my opinion, too much heraldic vocabulary in what's supposed to be the normal English description (House Locke). Also, sometimes the blazon seems to have formed around an interpretation of the artist who designed the House crest used in the wiki, even though such a clear description was never given in any canon or semi-canon material and should therefore not be included in the blazon. E.g. the description of the bullmoose of House Hornwood includes the adjective "trippant" which would be the correct word for the description of the position of the moose (in this case just walking) if this description were ever mentioned anywhere. Sure, the artist had to make a choice when designing the Hornwood banner, and decided that the moose should be walking, but that doesn't mean it's canon. Maybe I'm just nitpicking here, but I think these things are important. I mean, if an artist to give the House Stark direwolf brown eyes, that would be alright since the eye colour is never explicitly stated and doesn't change the fact that it's still a grey direwolf. But you couldn't start saying in the blazon that the wolf is "orbed brunâtre" retroactively because it isn't necessarily. Anyway, I would therefore strongly propose going for more consistency here and I could absolutely provide the blazons where missing. Here just a few examples of some Northern Houses coats of arms and how I would correct their descriptions. House Stark: A running grey direwolf, on an ice-white field (Argent, a direwolf courant cendrée) House Bolton: A red flayed man on pink scattered with red drops (Rose goutty de sang, a flayed man gules) House Cerwyn: A black battle-axe on silver (Argent, a battle-axe sable) [I've removed the adjective "pale-ways" here, because I'm fairly certain that this is never mentioned either.] House Dustin: Two rusted longaxes with black shafts crossed, a black crown between their points, on yellow (Or, two longaxes in saltire tenné shafted sable, between their points a crown sable) [I'm not quite satisfied using the tincture "tenné". That would be a colour somewhere between orange and brown but the original description only uses "rusted" which could be any shade of red, brown or orange. I could include rusted in the blazon but since that's not a tincture, you would still have to include some tincture if you conform to traditional heraldry. GRRM doesn't however, so maybe using just rusted IS enough, idk. So that's a bit tricky... I'm open to other suggestions.] House Hornwood: A brown bullmoose with black antlers on orange [taken from The Citadel] (Tenné, a bullmoose brunâtre attired sable) House Locke: Two bronze keys crossed on an white pale on purple (Purpure, on a pale argent two keys in saltire bronze) [There is only one precedent for using "bronze" as a heraldic tincture in real life, and in medieval times this would not have existed, the only metals used in thoses times being gold (or) and silver (argent). However, since GRRM breaks with traditional heraldry anyway, I don't see why we can't include it here. I really don't want to describe it as orange (tenné) or brown (brunâtre) since it clearly isn't.] House Manderly: A white merman with dark green hair, beard and tail, carrying a black trident, over a blue-green field (Aquamarine, a merman argent crined, bearded and queued vert, carrying a trident sable) House Poole: A blue plate on white, with a grey tressure (Argent, a hurt within a tressure cendrée) House Reed: A black lizard-lion on grey-green (Vert, a lizard-lion sable) House Umber: A roaring giant, brown-haired and wearing a skin, with broken silver chains, on flame-red (Gules, a giant roaring brunâtre habited with a skin wearing chains broken argent) So like I said, these are just a few examples. I would really like to know if I am wasting my time with this stuff or if it is actually appreciated. If it is, I will comb through every House and correct the blazons where necessary but I just wanted to give you guys some examples and see what you think of this. Am I nitpicking or do you agree that we should go for more consistency?

Hi there, I've really wanted to edit some articles in the wiki for a time now, especially concercing heraldic nomenclature. I've really gotten into the books and the show since last year or so. I'm currently a med student in Germany although I'm from Luxembourg and some of my hobbies include scuba diving and playing music with my instruments, piano and euphonium. I'm also quite active in my catholic fraternity here in Bonn. I hope I get to make some good edits in the wiki ;-)