Aegon VII

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  1. This conversation has been had 500 times before, so excuse me if I'm tired of typing a novel here, as I'm well aware how this convo goes. A couple points I'll touch on would be , his blood is no more royal than mine, Aegon steelsongs parallels to Jon, the parallel of the dornishmans/northmans wife and both mance and rhaegars life, Mance's color scheme is targ colors, and more specifically scarlet which rhaegars had a plume of scarlet silk when he died, the prominence of rubies in rhaegars death and rubies being associated with glamors, followed by mance using e same colors (black iron fetters and red ruby, to glamor). Add in the Mance's personality makes no sense for someone who grew up in a situation very similar to a prison. Plus all the questions of his origins. Between qhorin, Osha, and queen selyse none of our three origin stories for mance are the same. Then we add in Mance's obsession with digging up graves, finding magical horns, and saving people from the others. Evidence supports rhaegar had the same obsession with prophecy (it seems I must be a warrior). Both also use the sword as a last resort. That's maybe 1/100th the evidence, but also look at all the other identities that are questionable, Arthur and qhorin both say the "knees do not bend easily" line. We also have qhorin saying a fires beauty reminds him of a maiden on her wedding night, a little too poetic for a nw killer. Jon doesn't think his blade cuts him and then sees a ruby necklace, again rubies making us question his identities. I believe the kettlebacks, halfhand and lemore, quaithe, etc all may be people we know who went into hiding after rr. as you can see from a decade of threads on this site, every theory that loosely relates to mance is rhaegar gets flooded by a bunch of people who feel so confident that mance isn't rhaegar that they shit on it. oddly enough, it's always the same few objections, that have the same few responses, that never goes anywhere I seriously invite you to research it more. Better yet, reread the series with it in mind. I'll leave you with a quote by bran vras, "In one of the most curious of his many aspects, Mance's life seemed to follow the same archetype than Prince Rhaegar's. Perhaps, instead of the hell where they have been consigned, the proponents of the notion that Mance is Rhaegar should be given some sort of special place in purgatory."
  2. Good luck, theories involving mance being rhaegar usually get bogged down by people who think they know better bashing them, it's really unfortunate. There is a shit ton of evidence supporting mance as rhaegar, but the argument always devolves the same way. i don't think elaria was married prior but I do think there's a great chance mance is rhaegar and that the dornishmans wife could refer to Elia. Since it's a song you could half interpret it as dornish, man's wife, which Elia is. I think the song is more of a set up for the northmans daughter, which has much more of a parallel.
  3. Because her chapters are slower in the books. In the show its because they made her character shitty. I imagine Sansa will really shine in her later chapters.
  4. Mance has done more than everyone else in asoiaf to save the realm, outside of perhaps bloodraven. He's a good guy
  5. There is, Ashara Dayne for Dany and Leyton and Melora Hightower for Aegon
  6. It definitely was helping keep him alive, as others have mentioned, the cold preserves. I would imagine it also helps Jon
  7. If he has an army worthy of a targ, they'll respect him as a targ. It's all appearances at this point. Same thing with dany, but she got the dragons so she's been certified for a minute now
  8. When we have to endure the harshest conditions, like winter, we do better as a pack than alone. You can't have a pack without trust, and you can't have trust without being a man of your word. I know it's not exactly the same as being good, but being authentic, honest, and a man of your word allows others to trust and respect you which allows groups to band together and survive harsh conditions
  9. When your the best you surround yourself with the best
  10. Damn, this is an amazing catch that I have never seen discussed before. I find it interesting that LF had a wound cat was certain was mortal. Hmmm, any possibility this is suggesting Rhaegar survived the trident, same as LF? They both have had bael the bard connections as well.
  11. Thank you! I referenced this same passage in a Reddit thread a couple days ago where people were arguing that there was no foreshadowing in the books for aegon being his real name, though I was too lazy to dig up the actual quotes. I've believed jons name is aegon for some time now, hence my username. We can also look to Danys vision of Rhaegar. I know grrm has confirmed he was speaking to Elia, but his statement describes Jon, not aegon VI, and visions/prophecies always get it at least half right. Plus we know how big the number seven is in religion, it would make a lot of sense for aa/tptwp to be named after the most famous targ of all time, and be the seventh of his name. It's kinda like the lord commander thing that's being discussed on another thread, we are so close to number 1000, there's a good chance there will be #1000 in the books and he'll be a badass, like Jaime. I figured jons name had to be aegon or Aemon, the fact that the show is saying its aegon pretty much confirms it in my mind. also, I agree with those who say Rhaegar most likely named Jon, not lyanna. If his name was Ned or something I wouldn't be so sure, but aegon.. That's Rhaegar trying to fulfill prophecy.
  12. He might have nukes on his mind even more these days though, now that he's handed off the key. It's like dany handed her dragons off to viserys.
  13. Thank you! I was about to post this and one of his other quotes so I'm glad at least this one has been brought up. To say grrm did not make dragons a parallel for nukes is simply wrong. Here's another quote: The dragons are the ultimate weapon in the world of Ice and Fire. They’re controlled by only a few people. You can win wars with them, win battles with them, but that doesn’t mean you can govern successfully with them—build a successful society and culture. In that sense, they are like nuclear weapons. Like right now, you see President Obama and Congress and NATO all wrestling with what to do about ISIS in the Middle East. One thing no one mentions is nuclear weapons. We could wipe them off the map tomorrow if we wanted to use our dragons. Still, when do you do that? Do you ever do that? What are the moral ramifications? What does that do to you?
  14. Are nuclear weapons bad?
  15. I updated this argument for the kialo.com $25k tournament. If anyone's interested, it's titled "Mance wrote the Pink Letter". If you like it, any "thanks" are greatly appreciated (it's how they judge the entries). Bonus points if anyone recognizes where my cover image is from (you'll see it when you pull it up on kialo.com). Besides that, this is a topic I love, so I'd love to continue discussing it on this thread. Cheers!