Morgana Lannister

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About Morgana Lannister

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  1. Very interesting thread; I have to admit this is now so long I would have to take a day or longer to read it all, so I admit I haven't read it all. My apologies of a lot of what I say has been said before. Okay, Is Mel that old? Yes or even more so lol. I think we will learn more about her past in the books. The idea that she might have been a slave prostitute once is plausible to me. She uses seduction well... not saying everyone who does has been in that profession lol but kind of irrelevant point I think... Will she resurrect Jon??? Not sure, but warging will be what keeps him alive for a time IMHO as already stated here. Whether it is her intervention or Jon is merely in what we today call a coma hard to say. However, I believe what she said to Davos in the show re they will need her at the end (even if they despise her) will come true. However, I am convinced the plot device in this is that Jon has to die before he can forsake his vows and hence become something bigger, a big player in the big game, but George will take that slowly I think... Shireen's death by fire - confirmed by George. Now, how soon of if even in TWOW, unsure... this ties up with how Stannis dies I guess. To me, Boltons - v- Stannis will "conveniently" for the likes of Jon and Tyrion/Sansa if they ever meet again and stay together lol, cancel each other out. Stannis will defeat the Boltons for sure. George talked about the two main battles in TWOW, this being one of them. Jon, I suspect, will be boringly "dead" for most of the book warging if not longer. (Sorry I find the warging tedious but hey, we all have our preferences lol). Ramsay killing a brother is very hinted at in the books, with Domeric, but Roose knows it, although (shamely in MHO) he did nothing and he even recompensed Ramsay with legitimization lol. I think it will come to pass but probably only after Roose has been killed by Northerners or Stannis in battle or some such... Now, an afterthought, Walder Frey is way too cowardly to avenge his daughter (in the event it goes like in the show) but would other Freys think alike... and we "conveniently" have a fierce Lannister woman married to a Frey... (Genna Lannister-Frey) and Roslin is a Frey too married to a Tully. This is probably all fan fic but hey, food for thought... OMG and hostages in Casterly, surely under Genna's supervision... I don't thing the "Frey pie" will happen in the books. In fact, although like 1% of it happening I would love this plot lol (I mean Genna/Roslin). Whatever the weather I don't think Ramsay is going to get Valhalla, he will be murdered by his enemies in cold blood like he deserves, not in the "glory" of battle. Both ladies are mothers with all the hormones that that imply and the killing of Fat Walda and her son... if it happens in the books, my guess is that they go for him. Not necessarily dogs, but poison or something??? To me this would be satisfying because I believe George is clear in that not everyone from a house is bad or good. To see Lannister and Frey and maybe Stark collaborate I think is what the ending will be (albeit with more of an epic battle lol). As for Shireen, lol cried at the scene although it was no suprise. I wonder if it may be Davos who stubs Stannis for that instead of Brienne. No way it will be Brienne in the books. Brienne is on a huge cliffhanger with her beloved and LSH, okay could happen later but I think Brienne''s path is to see what Jaime told her "too many oaths; hard to keep them all..." She may go north but not yet "me thinks." Stannis death to me; either in battle with honour or kill because of Shireen. It could be even more poignant if he hadn't allowed Mel to do it but other people think he did and take the law into their own hands... Rickon and Shaggydog have to die. Rickon to me is just a plot device. We all care about our younger siblings, nephews, nieces et al. George has invested like zero time with him even compared with minor characters like say... Septa Lemore, Myranda Royce etc. In my mind he is just making up numbers in the Stark household. We know very little of him and most of it "off screen." Could be me but if the author is not that invested in a character as to show us him, neither am I. Okay probably being callous here but I have zero investment on him as a character and he is clearly in the way to more major characters getting Winterfell. I don't hate him and I can see the value, for Sansa, Jon, et al for him to be killed and them suffering. I cannot see the value on him being Lord of Winterfell or King in the North unless George gives us about at least 10 chapters with his POW! Sorry that I find this character flat... Sad as it was in the show, I liked the fact he was out of the way to be honest. Never bonded with him, even Robin Arryn, horrid as he can be I am more invested on. He was all "off screen" in books as well and I never bonded beyond imagining what it would be like to see my little brother die, say... (plot device in my humble mind). Bran- one spoiler I believe is that he will cause the Wall's fall for not fault of his own but will regain strength and will survive; not in a tree but as something very Old Gods etc. In fact, I expect him writing the story in 300 hundred years time, when all our fabs and hated ones are dead....
  2. The future of Jaime and Brienne?

    You know, could be wishful thinking but I am kind of convinced of this too. That would be incredibly bitter-sweet and he has to redeem himself not just in character but in the eyes of others, I think... I don't know whether that posthumous child of theirs is just my wishful thinking or if it will happen but ADOS has to have some hope in it, and re-building and you need children for that. Also I am inclined to believe that a number of characters will end up in roles they never expected for themselves, and Brienne never saw herself as a mother I don't think. Definitely back this one, although again it could be just want to see happening...
  3. The future of Jaime and Brienne?

    I cannot figure out what kind of chaos would make it possible for Brienne to kill UnCat. However, "Oathkeeper" was made from "Ice" and I always had the feeling that it would be a fitting ending if UnCat was killed with it. The other possibility, but probably not in this scenario, so no yet would be Arya giving her "mercy..." Still, although a little off topic here, I would love it if LF encounter Cat in her current state to give him nightmares lol Going back to the sword, the name has to mean something and I am inclined to believe it does not only refer to the quest to find Cat's daughters. I have posted earlier on the vow of fealty, especially the bit where Cat swears not to ask anything of Brienne that would bring her dishonor and, whatever Jaime's crimes, he did save Brienne's life so that would bring her dishonour. UnCat has not kept her oath and I think that would be a great opportunity plot-wise to have her killed with "Oathkeeper." Furthermore, say that Jaime and Brienne survive and accomplish finding Sansa, say. Would they be in their right minds if they took her back to LSH??? The experience would be truly devastating for Sansa, even Arya... I don't doubt they would find a safe place for one or both girls but I think bringing them to their mother would be extremely cruel psychologically. As it stands they both have positive memories of their mother and their childhoods this would just totally ruin those memories. Both Brienne and Jaime have a lot of unfinished business still; with each other or separately. For me, Jaime has to meet up with Tyrion again, and certainly Cersei... whether valanquar or not. Brienne has to fulfill her oath to both Cat and Jaime. I am sure at least one of them will die in the story at some point but I don't think they can do so yet. Also I get a strong feeling, given the released Alayne chapter from TWOW that either one or both will turn up for the tourney in the Vale. I wouldn't be terribly surprised either if they encounter Sandor at some point soon... but just my two cents
  4. The future of Jaime and Brienne?

    I have been absolutely convinced for a long time that this is going to be paramount in Jaime/Brienne/LSH encounter. Granted, may need the intervention of someone like Thoros, some Deux ex Machina situation and or a duel or all of the above but the fact that even the show made a big point of having the vows in full to me means that this will be relevant in an important way at some point. The dishonor for me is that she cannot be asked to kill a man who saved her from certain death...
  5. What 'needed to be done'?

    I am great believer, although I dislike Tywin, that he is a very competent political leader and had little choice (if he wanted to remain a political leader)... To me he is the embodiment of Machiavelli's Prince lol so yes social climber all that... Tyrion had no choice. He learnt of his sister using the "wildfyre". Cersei is incompetent at best lol. He knew he was going to massacre enemies. I don't think he liked it that much but had to win or be destroyed (not just him but Kings Landing) and his sister likely to make "pigs ears" of the whole sorry affair. He did it and won! I am sure Jaime will get back to this in the books; at the time if Bran lived and talked his children wouldn't ... not precisely nobel but pretty human reaction. Lol, she wanted him dead for sure but hey, after Rhaegar he wanted Robert and all she got was "Lyanna..." Sansa and LF I am sure we are to see the ending lol I don't want her to kill him or to torture him physically but psychologically lol I think she might in the books... and the food he is hoarding, something will come of it I think Killing Joff is cool, leaving Sansa and Tyrion carrying the can is not. I believe they fell in love... but I could be wrong...
  6. What 'needed to be done'?

    Trouble is when someone believes what you say is "superstition" one cannot hope for anything else...Jon was right, of course, but we have the books... Bowen Marsh and even ser Alistair did not... they acted as their education and tradition would dictate... Granted that given that Mormont almost got killed by an Other and Jon got his hand burnt they should have known better but it was a hard to believe thing in the first place...
  7. What 'needed to be done'?

    That is what is beautiful about this story; no one is absolutely right or absolutely evil (mayhaps Ramsay and Joffrey) who I believe mentally unstable, Euron for sure (to me, a combination of mental instability and huge ability lol) the others are all grey. Jon fought against what in our world could be seen as xenophobia with people very stuck in their ways but yes I can see why they killed him... because "in their minds" it was totally necessary. Same goes for Dany with the Masters, Tyrion in the Blackwater etc...George is brilliant at making us love a character and then showing them doing "bad deeds." Although in our world killing is not the norm, I guess we have all done something, out of self-preservation mayhaps that we are not awfully proud of...
  8. What 'needed to be done'?

    So far I agree with it all but the part when Olenna tries to kill Tyrion. That was LF's plan for sure and Olenna might have been in cahoots with him but Olenna earns nothing from Tyrion's death other that yes, taking the attention away from herself and her family but a trial against Tyrion would serve better. Good post though! If I were Olenna, LF would go next for the simple fact that he has something on her now that can get her hanged lol okay him as well (potentially hanged) but Baelish is good at getting out of these situations... If I ever consorted with the man to kill another, I would never let him live but hey that is medieval fantasy me lol
  9. 1) Glowing like sunset, a red sword was raised in the hand of a blue-eyed king who cast no shadow. 2) A cloth dragon swayed on poles amidst a cheering crowd. 3) From a smoking tower, a great stone beast took wing, breathing shadow fire. . . . mother of dragons, slayer of lies . . .Daenerys, IV, Clash Okay, I am likely to make a right fool of myself here because, I have to admit I haven't had the time to elaborate in small details on all the books and I am not as knowledgeable of them as most of you seem to be. However, I had this very simplistic, probably even "primary school" idea that this refers to something simpler... more "hidden in plain view" if you wish. I have enjoyed the thread a lot so far though and I support the views of many of you re things like Euron and the FM had some pact that involved that egg etc. However, to read this passage literally (I reiterate this is very "primary school"), everyone seems to think that Stannis is 1). However, why "no shadow?" my impression though was the Night King... provided he does get held of a sword like that, which to me is not beyond the realms of fantasy... now why juxtapose him to a very mundane and perhaps not even true royal like Faegon is a fair criticism I make of my own theory. 2) appears to be unquestionably Aegon. Although I admit I had no better candidates either this whole thing is pretty literal or there is something especially hidden in number 2. I am certain that Aegon will have the throne for a time but won't be there in the end. Varys??? Pretty convinced he is a Targ (mixture of main royal blood and a Blackfyre mistress, hence and bastard and hence he was cut... probably just tinfoil though) but the "cheering crowd" does not fit here at all though... He told Tyrion he was raised by mummers or something and even looking at the name... so Targ lol , yeah he could be the "cloth dragon." Not saying he will make it to the IT, simply that he has the means to chose who will. The third indeed could be Tyrion. Connington too but Connington not making it into the series and D&D knowing the ending and him being a minor character tells me his ending is not quite as grand as that. I'l go for Tyrion but not alone. I strongly think he will be one of the dragon riders, with Dany and Jon Snow as the other two. But there is something very wrong, even in my own mind with what I have just posted lol Kind of brainstorming with myself here. Euron for sure uses magic and he is the biggest bad news yet to hit Planetos. Melissandre is there to play a part in the end, then she will die and will be very old like in the show before she does IMHO. I personally think she will redeem herself in some level by defeating Euron though. Okay, I am talking from instinct mainly and if this is not welcome in this discussion I will appreciate it and step back. Euron has the horn but he cannot prevail for long at least since that would not amount to a "bitter-sweet" ending lol. Now that I think of it, I think Euron will use the horn to get control of one of the dragons to be deposed by one of the other riders, one who is not Dany, likely Tyrion given the gargoyle metaphor, and maybe that is the end of Tyrion, because he either survives or goes off with a bang lol. Now, looking at this paragraph only we got one king that fits the bill in part one not necessarily part two (as I assume NK would...) then one that is too obvious and one that appears obvious too (Tyrion) but less so. The smoking tower could be somewhere in the future... could be indeed the Citadel but I don't think we know the location yet, but the shadow fire does fit either Stannis or Euron. The shadow fire fits Mel perfectly though. Maybe this is not about contenders for the throne but about important players... Varys and Mel could fit two in the theme, but with either NK or Stannis they don't lol This is driving me nuts!!! lol and I keep thinking... okay number 2) all on board with Aegon but the "cheering crowd" could mean people static about him being King or his head on a spike (by Dany maybe?) just the same. My gold dragons on the later. Why would he be with these other two parts of the prophecy? I think there is a lot of material we need to know which will come in the next too books without which we might not be able to tell, but just my feeling... For now I am going for the possibility of more than one character per prophecy; going for Stannis/Night King (as separate characters), Aegon/Varys and Tyrion/Euron even. Not in cahoots with each other in the pairings but as possible interpretations if this makes any sense, which I am sure does not! lol Debated whether to post this nonesense but so eager to brainstorm on this topic that I thought I do lol....
  10. Why did Tyrion lie?

    I don't think that is going to stay that way by the end of the series though. As already discussed in this thread, Tyrion is terribly hurt and acting quite cruelly towards Jaime but to me that dream represents that although there is still some resentment towards his brother left in him his subconscious is telling him that he still loves him. He was acting in pure temper and I am sure the brothers will reconcile at some point. Tyrion's mental state was definitely at its lowest point right then. He did not believe Sansa could have killed Joffrey acting alone (if at all) but still is resentful that she left him by disappearing at the right moment "carrying the can." Although I am sure he can appreciate that fighting the Mountain is more likely than not a death sentence and he knew Bron was a sellsword he had hoped for a true friend, everyone abandoned him in his final hour of need and that can be quite devastating, of course on top of the anger that I can anyone feeling if wrongly accused and sentenced to death. He made a big mistake in my opinion though and I hope he will realise this when he is come out of that sort of nervous break down we see him having in ADWD. I keep comparing his arc with Arya's and I think we are going to see them both less intent on such revenge by the end of the story. George likes to fool with us readers I think. He introduced Jaime as someone quite vile then we see his humanity (in how he was always good to Tyrion, how he truly was madly in love with Cersei and how he is with Brienne) and I think his arc is one of redemption. Same thing happens with Theon although in a different way. We want (readers) to skin him alive for what he did in Winterfell only to feel pity and get to understand his complexity, whereas Tyrion and Arya are presented as spirited but mainly sympathetic, then we get to find out about the darkness in both and they are both in a bad mental state, although I see Arya as more rational although she appears the opposite but I think whether they live or die in the end time is a great healer and both characters will revert to still grey but more sympathetic than they are right now and I believe a sibling reconciliation will play a part on both their arcs. Cersei is a different matter though. I really don't see Tyrion and her ever reconciling but had it been Cersei who had lied to him it would not have hurt Tyrion anywhere near as much because we can only be truly hurt by people we love and it is hard to love someone (blood relation or not) who has wanted you dead since you were born whereas Jaime was good to him. I understand totally that Jaime at a crucial point when they didn't know if they would ever see each other again, given that Tyrion will have to live far away from where he could be executed, felt incredibly guilty and just had to tell the truth but as things open happen in this series in an ironic twist the timing could not have been worse. I am pretty convinced that Jaime is not going to make it in the end and that Tyrion has a strong chance and I would really beg George to let them have their reconciliation before it is too late. I don't recall but I might have missed something Jaime thinking about this moment but I am sure if they were both honest with themselves both regret this estrangement. I am sure Jaime is still angry at Tyrion although not as much as the other way round but I think their love as brothers will prevail in the end. As to a possible twist in terms of Tysha having been in it for his money it still possible and I believe George said we will find out "where whores go," so I wouldn't totally discount that theory but if this is true I doubt that Jaime would have been the one arranging it or would have known at all. This rift had to happen plot-wise for various reasons though. Firstly, to add to the utter misery Tyrion is in to be able to turn his favourite character more black than white convincingly. Seondly to get him on the path to try to find out the truth about Tysha (although I am sure he will learn of her fate by pure chance as his path at the moment is not allowing him the freedom to go seeking her and thirdly to make the reunion more poignant between the brothers when it does in fact happen. I have been convinced for some time that the "sweet" part of the overall ending is going to involve a lot of "healing" and "compromise" between antagonist parties and that the "bitter" part will be both enormous cast casualties and the fact that noone will be totally satisfied with the compromise they had no choice but make.
  11. Did Walder Frey even have a choice?

    I have to agree with this. However, okay, I haven't read all the entries on this topic yet, but yes, everyone "has a choice" I think the question is more like "did he had a choice if he wanted his family to remain powerful?" or something of that ilk... Now, I love the complexity in George's works and this one is complex in my mind. On the one hand, we know that it was extremely generous on the part of the Lannisters (at least in appearance) to marry a daughter of CR to his son... He also states the Tullys and Starks also saw him as a "lesser Lord." (and he is prickly about it but will go onto that later). What he does hold if not so much money or honour is the point of passage and that is what Robb begs for. That makes him powerful and Tywin is not an idiot. If he were to deny passage, at some point in the story to the Lannisters, the Lannisters would have to beg or threat or do something but they are not passing without his consent (Walder's). So he hasn't the riches but he has the geographical advantage. Okay, stating the obvious lol so I think any side should be wary of him. He can close the bridge and let them to it... I need to re-read the books because I cannot quite understand what compelled Walder to let Robb pass, even with the offer of marriage... unless Walder is so obsessed with marrying his brood to high houses that he losses all political sense. In fact LF suffers from this "lower house" inferiority complex too (will go into it another time) but not sure that would be enough to turn Walder, unless he is politically just not shrewd... Yes, a bannerman of the Tullys in name and allied with the Lannisters behind close doors... This guy hedges his bets, just like Varys, only not so competently. lol Tywin, IMHO is totally the opposite of irrational, most of the time... anything to do with Tytos and weakness though sets him over the edge, hence Rains of Castamer, but generally speaking, could be wrong, my perception of him is the "perfect Prince" according to Machiavelli. The ruthless "modern man at the beginning of the Renaissance... To me Tywin got Tysha raped for two reasons; first; to ensure if she was with child it would hard to pin it down to his son; second, to make his son pay for marrying a commoner. Elia, seems clear that he didn't order it, just simply though life is cheap and well he won the battle so who cares what pillage and rape they committed (part of their wages lol), Castamere I think was more personal but he was younger and the pain of his father's mistress control over his house was blinding him... I find strong parallels between Tywin and Walder; they both grew up (as did LF) in houses that were disrespected by their own vassals. In this fantasy context, this could not continue at any rate! Walder tries the marriages and it's shamed more often than not. Tywin has the money, which I doubt his father had when he died. I think Tywin (although hate him) worked hard for his family's wealth and name. To an extend, Walder too, but he just sits there being elderly and doing little and relying on marriages... They are both cunning men, as is Tyrion and hell Petyr but Walder is the least cunning of them all. Maybe senility has set in or he was never more than average intelligence to begin with when competing with super brains lol... not sure but whenever any character in this series gives into their "emotions" and "shortcomings" it goes bad for them. There was a political balance to be achieved for Walder and he had to make "a bet" sure probably he was able to win Tywin over but not easily... however, my personal view is that he "enjoyed" the Red Wedding in the same way that Tywin enoyed "the Rains of Castamere." Even very sober political characters let their psychological shortcomings get the better or them. As for what he did, lol, of course it was horrible but I loved Tywin's reasoning (indeed is probably preferable to kill a dozen men at dinner than 1000 in battle). I consider George pretty much an "agent provocateur" and he has it right lol and to ask us readers to think on that... Protagoras made many interesting comments earlier and despite my history with him on just not agreeing lol I have to say that the violation of "guest rights" was bound to come and bite Walder. Do I put principle before life??? Nope. Never. However, Tyrion, say, would have known straight away as the PR he is that this was a bad... move... Tywin would not have listen because as traumatized as Tyrion is for being a dwarf, Tywin is traumatised by a weak father... Part of the trouble with both Tywin and Walder is that they feel too high and mighty to take advice from anyone though. They want absolute control and refuse to "team work" . Did Walder had a choice? I guess yes but not one I would like to make because it was down to betting on a horse to be honest IMHO!
  12. Tyrion + Sansa potentially Reunite

    Okay, none of us know, for sure... but what would be the character or plot development in this story with your predicted ending? Fair enough, I said earlier in the thread that the oddest things if well written could work. A brief marriage of convenience (for her, or for her to save others could do it...) but this would be unsatisfactory. To me the story is a sad one about warring houses. All houses, even the Freys have characters that can be sympathetic. In the show specially the Walda and baby thing got me; nearly as much as Shireen lol A little like say, right wing, left wing, fundamentalist Christians, Jews and Muslims please come together because people from Mars are throwing meteorites at us... lol only saying this because this is how I see the overall series; the main thread is the WWs. Everything else is the personal story of the many involved. A bit like watching, say a WWII movie with a few personal stories to add the human touch, but ultimately this is a battle. Okay some battles can be won by diplomacy... but not this one; the diplomacy will make it possible for all living to go against the dead though, I think.... LF is Sansa's mentor as the Faceless are Arya;s IMHO. But there are other minor ones in the books, I reckon Miranda Royce is there for a reason too, Arya will find someone on the road apart from the ones she already found in Westeros... Whether character driven or plot ridden, LF/Sansa marriage could only be short term. Okay, like with Tyrion she could learn to "quietly" have a nice cup of wine and discuss a book I guess with him for the man is literate and stuff but she knows what he is... she lied about Lysa's death to stay alive herself and probably even felt a little grateful for Lysa well... was trying to kill her... but still she remembers. What naive Sansa did at like 11 I wouldn't hold over her for ever. Arya and Tyrion have done far worse say, as has Jaime and nearly everyone lol. Being stuck in family wars is what George wanted us to do from the beginning but the ending cannot continue to be yet another Lannister/Stark/Targ feud or the story will end incomplete plot wise.
  13. Tyrion + Sansa potentially Reunite

    I have to agree here; despite that Sansa, "typical good, high born girl" has a teen sort of what I consider infatuation but others think is love thing going on with Sandor (referring to the "unkiss" in the books). I have encountered a lot of young girls of say, in our world wealthy and upper middle class backgrounds going for the "revel" what is perceived as dangerous and exiting but it is normally a passing phase, although not always. I am more inclined to think that even if, say, Sansa was to end up with Willas (who is another heir of another important house) that would be more plausible in that world than Sandor. I don't think it is just the difference in status but the difference in personalities. Also I will get to Arya in a moment. Tyrion is cunning, Sansa in both books and show is becoming astute too. Okay, he appeared more relaxed in social situations until it all went to pot with that trial than she but they are both "courtiers" in away. Now, love the fact that you have said that you find Sandor and Arya more suited. I think so too. Those two are both more visceral. Clearly neither of these could be shaped into a courtier a la Margaery/Sansa/Tyrion/LF... They will both evolve dramatically too I am sure (him with his time of reflection in Quiet Island and her with the Faceless) but they still will remain (in my humble opinion) pretty hard to tame. They are also both more physical in terms of say what we would call today sports whereas Tyrion are Sansa are both more at ease in a posh, comfy room... Superficial things I know but definitely I could see Arya and Sandor more easily than Sandor and Sansa (despite the fact that he wrapped her with his cloak etc). I feel if Arya could finally let go (and just like Tyrion she will have to at some point for her arc to be complete) she will have to forgive Sandor. Both Sansa and Arya where children; the one with dreams of comely princes and chivalries the other with her own sort of chivary code (hence she seems to put too much of the blame on the executioner with both ser Illyn Payne and the Hound). I think with maturity she will realise that Sandor could not disobey Joffrey's orders... hence it was not his fault. I am not saying that I predict them to be together (more inclined towards Gendry actually) but I do hope they also meet again, especially after how she left him... and that there is forgiveness between them. I personally think that a lot of this ending and the final acts are pointing at forgiveness between houses and even people. That may actually be the sweet part. We have the perfect set up for this since they got the huge "common threat" so if these warring houses don't unite they all die, end of story. I hope Sansa and Sandor end up on a friendly basis too btw. He has been good to her too but I think the part of her that fantasised about him didn't do so because he was good but because he seemed exciting and dangerous to a point (scene where he asks her to sing etc). In fact I see their story, if they panned out more Robin Hood/Maid Marian than Beauty and the Beast (who many claim is the basis for this relationship) and to be honest, deluded or not I think Dany fits Robin Hood better here than any other character. All in all, although I doubt it will happen, I would be relatively pleasantly surprised if there was an Arya/Sandor romance. What sealed it to me was that she couldn't actually killing despite him being on her "list" but denying it to herself. I know it doesn't make sense to put these facts together but with Tyrion/Sansa yes the fact that she mentioned the "forbidden" word "never." Never is too final and well letting someone live when pretending to yourself this is the best revenge you could get... As I said, I don't think I explained this very well though but for me their could be a certain parallel and they have all gone on important journeys since... As for character driven, I can see it of course but not exclusively. The fact that we are debating like this here means that characters have been made to be "very important to us all" (regardless of which ones are our favs), however this is overall an epic which will culminate with the battle Living -v- Death and the kingdom reconstruction afterwards so much as it may be character driven you cannot end an epic with characters getting their sweethearts without a proper political and administrative structure in place. Could it happen even with the couples that are more popular? Yes, but alliances will have to be made and to me one of the foreshadowing elements is that George since to bang into us the Ned/Cat relationship and that was not love at first sight... but as I keep saying "we shall see..." Re Sweet Robin, I have a tin foil theory lol. I think Sansa is also showing complexity there at the Vale. She dislikes the way the boy is but she knows why that is (Lysa lol) but has some sort of family feelings or compassion towards him or something. Also he is still an impossible brat but better than he was... I think she will not marry him but save his life, for I bet you anything she will realise soon that he is being poisoned slowly. She is not like to antagonise LF or stand up to him. I think she will go behind the scenes and save him somehow. Now, marrying him could be a double edge sword situation. It would not remove Harry's ambition... more likely to get Harry involved (indirectly) in the poisoning... however the only political value to her marriage to Harry is there if Robin is dead,so she will definitely (I think) try to postpone marriage to Harry. Since some Lords of the Vale are very against LF, whilst some in his pocket I think this is the game she will play. She will rally allies for Robin discreetly. I expect Miranda Royce to play a part and I think Sansa might be willing to fork out dowry for her to marry Harry if in a position to do so (at the moment not the case) without LF's knowledge or something of that ilk. Out of the two options, marrying Robin or Harry, marrying Robin is more like to save Robin's life but I don't think it will work out like that. I think somehow Sansa will get his trust, respect and gratitude when he is a bit older...
  14. Tyrion + Sansa potentially Reunite

    Good point actually; the gods old and new only know what George is doing with this but to my mind, and it is no secret that I relate to Tyrion a lot (good and bad- although hey never murdered anyone yet...) Arya is more suited for Sandor; they are both warriors, not that they have to be but Sansa was never good or interested in that sort of thing, Arya was... being infatuated with the "dangerous" or perceived as such is just the biggest cliche in well teenage anything... "the unkiss" to me is just that but hey might be wrong lol but the amount of posh friends I had who fancied a bit of rough lol...Only the ending will tell though... and in the meantime, thank you for keeping it polite... By the way, Princess of Ice and Fire, i hope you realise I used your post but wasn't against your comments in any way
  15. Tyrion + Sansa potentially Reunite

    If you think WF and Casterly add nothing to the political plot, I would welcome an explanation lol Granted, Jon has the north for now but I think his destiny is much larger. Okay, evil me but I wanted Rickon dead and "out of their way" for no other reason than, unlike Bran, say, we know nothing about him, can't warm up to him for the very reason that he is an "absent character" throughout. I can even feel where LF is coming from but Rickon, nope. Never there... didn't get the chance as a reader to root for him... so "shame on me, loved the fact it was killed in the show."