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  1. This is an important factor....also that he was a Northern Lord.
  2. Hey RR. Sorry I disappeared again. @40 Thousand Skeletons I have always liked the line about the taste of molten gold. I think that RR has it right in what I quoted above if you want to read into it. That said, sometimes a smelting is just a smelting and I always liked the line because of just how evocative it is. If you have ever done any soldering you will know that the smell of the metal melting is something you can almost taste on your tongue. Molten metals in general have a very powerful and multi-sensory smell and I think that this is one of those lines that is just very good descriptive writing on the part of GRRM rather than something more.
  3. I haven't yet, I've been away and am just putting my toes in now. I do believe what you say here has the potential for some very juicy fruit and will ready your write-up!
  4. you know how I HATE derailing threads with extemporaneous, scatalogical and borderline lunatic tangents regarding swords, etymology and the history of literature and philosophy....:)
  5. Thanks @YOVMO . Those are all great examples! I would love it if you contributed on my 'Killing Word' thread I most certainly will get to killing word, but it must wait for saturday when I can give it my full attention. This is going to be a good one Oh don't get me started on Swords and Hymens and the fresh blood that comes from a fresh piercing and lands on the virgin snow.....oh we are going to go..........I can't believe I'm saying this........deep on this one. I know it sounds nuts but if I had to list what I believe to be the top three most important sections the Prologue would be in there. As do i. I feel like it is the price to bind. Only death can pay for life and only being bound can pay for binding.
  6. Wonderful! Lest not forget our bible. John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. God creates the whole world with the Word. Later on in Matthew Christ performs the miracle of resurrection using The Word when the centurion says he is not worthy to have Jesus under his roof. Throughout the bible we see "The Word" as a powerful force...a force with the power to both create, destroy and resurrect. And lets not forget Paul's letter to the Hebrews 4:12 For the Word of God is living and powerful and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Aside from the biblical stuff there is a whole world of voice being a weapon from the metaphor where one uses their voice to attack someones mind (think Grima Wormtounge and the King of Rohan) to a vow made (for instance, nights watch vows) which both protect the speaker while at the same time imprisoning him to Spells where using the magical words can do anything from open doors to conjure flames etc etc etc to God laying waste to Babylon with his voice. Need to catch up on rest of thread to really be able to contribute in a helpful way, but thought I would bring a little bible in when I saw voices/swords.
  7. I would argue that R'hllor, like all the gods, are both real and not real. I think that they are the ways that human's interpret things that they don't really understand. Is there some kind of fire force in the universe? Of course there is. It would be clown shoes crazy to deny it. But is that power an anthropomorphic deity? I feel that it is more likely that that is just a tradition which has been passed on by people in an attempt to understand what is going on....no different than the 7 or the old gods. Like Robert Heinlein says through Lazarus Long in Time Enough For Love, 'One man's theology is another man's belly laugh' There are forces at work in the world and there are people with a need to have them explained in a way they can understand. Is there some being R'Hllor? I doubt it. Is there some power that the holy r'hllors have named such in an attempt to explain phenomena that doesn't fit into their understanding of the world? Of course....no different from the fact that there is some kind of universal notion of Mother or Smith or Warrior......or Death......but to imagine a 7 seated table with them all sitting down and discussing quiddich is a little too primitive for our story me thinks.
  8. hot pie
  9. That it is typical doesn't make it either an excuse or untrue. Westeros, pre-conquest, was much as Thomas Hobbes said life without absolute soverign power would be: Whatsoever therefore is consequent to a time of Warre, where every man is Enemy to every man; the same is consequent to the time, wherein men live without other security, than what their own strength, and their own invention shall furnish them withall. In such condition, there is no place for Industry; because the fruit thereof is uncertain: and consequently no Culture of the Earth; no Navigation, nor use of the commodities that may be imported by Sea; no commodious Building; no Instruments of moving, and removing things as require much force; no Knowledge of the face of the Earth; no account of Time; no Arts; no Letters; no Society; and which is worst of all, continuall feare, and danger of violent death; And the life of man solitary, poore, nasty, brutish, and short. There is absolutely no reason to imagine it would be any different or would have in any way changed without central Targaryen leadership.
  10. thank you! and you as well! @PCK and thank you as well
  11. I am of the opinion that Sansa will be one of, if not the only characters to survive the whole story. Sansa seems useless and like an "outsider" Outsider is important here. However, useless is totally incorrect imo. I have long held the belief that Sansa is us...the reader. Look at Sansa's arc. It parallels the arc of the first time reader of asoiaf. Sansa is a believer in old songs, tales of chivalry, of knights and ladies, of court pageantry just like many of us, myself included, believed in the simple fantasy tropes of yesteryear. Orcs were bad and the good guys were beautiful. There was a demarcation between good and evil which was absolute. All those tropes that grrm bucks to create his amazing story. We look around and know there is something wrong. Ewoks bring down the empire. Aaragorn being the benevolent leader. It is all too clean. But we don't say anything. we enjoy our stories, our little dreams. We talk about them over and over again. But as we get older, more and more the reality of the world creeps in on us. We aren't blind to everything, but we are trying to remain innocent. We see minor injustice and write it off. Bran falls from the tower. Ok. We can fit this in a box somehow. Joff is a total dick, but he looks SO MUCH like a prince. They killed our direwolf. It's arya's fault anyway. More and more the world crowds us with dark realities but we fight them, keep them at bay because we know the good guys will win, the beautiful princess and the handsome prince will prevail....IT IS IN ALL THE SONGS!!!! IT CAN'T BE WRONG.....and then one day Ilyn Paine removes Ned Starks head with his own sword. The songs were wrong. The hound was right. Littlefinger was right. There is no meaning. There is no justice. The world isn't fair. The handsome prince is a monster. The monsterous warrior with the burnt face is a dreamer and the noble ned stark is now dead. Then the beautiful queen turns out to be a gaoler. But there is hope with Dontos. Florian the fool. Ok, maybe there is some way. Something. Some sense....bzzzzz ok sansa/reader got your hopes up again. lol life sucks. By the time we are at feast the lannisters (Tyrion and Jamie) are the good guys in a way, littlefinger is helping us, we are lying to the lords declarant. Everything is all wrong but yet somehow we always knew it was supposed to be this way. I really think that Sansa's path is one to watch very carefully. I think built into Sansa's arc is the arc that the reader will follow and that in the end Sansa will see the story finish, for better or for worse, and will be left in much the same place as the reader....where that is only George knows
  12. brothel re-read sounds excellent. Great idea!
  13. I knew a guy when the Harry Potter books would first come out that would go on road trips with his wife and young son who was just the right age. His wife would drive and he would read out loud. That was the whole trip. I remember thinking it was quite untoward to be jealous of a friends 7 year old kid and there was no way he was going to adopt a person 2 years older than himself.
  14. Leech, if you are going to call a mass scale annotation of a fantasy series "crazy" then we all better just put our bats and balls down and go home. Thanks for this. As for Reality...real, total bullshit.
  15. That is a fascinating idea. I don't know why this never occurred to me. I don't have the time to do a full read right now (which is why the targeted reading) but when (ugh and if) WOW gets announced I plan to do a straight read through at which point I will seriously consider reading AFFC and ADWD as a single volume! Thanks for that!