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  1. Sansas ending

    I am of the opinion that Sansa will be one of, if not the only characters to survive the whole story. Sansa seems useless and like an "outsider" Outsider is important here. However, useless is totally incorrect imo. I have long held the belief that Sansa is us...the reader. Look at Sansa's arc. It parallels the arc of the first time reader of asoiaf. Sansa is a believer in old songs, tales of chivalry, of knights and ladies, of court pageantry just like many of us, myself included, believed in the simple fantasy tropes of yesteryear. Orcs were bad and the good guys were beautiful. There was a demarcation between good and evil which was absolute. All those tropes that grrm bucks to create his amazing story. We look around and know there is something wrong. Ewoks bring down the empire. Aaragorn being the benevolent leader. It is all too clean. But we don't say anything. we enjoy our stories, our little dreams. We talk about them over and over again. But as we get older, more and more the reality of the world creeps in on us. We aren't blind to everything, but we are trying to remain innocent. We see minor injustice and write it off. Bran falls from the tower. Ok. We can fit this in a box somehow. Joff is a total dick, but he looks SO MUCH like a prince. They killed our direwolf. It's arya's fault anyway. More and more the world crowds us with dark realities but we fight them, keep them at bay because we know the good guys will win, the beautiful princess and the handsome prince will prevail....IT IS IN ALL THE SONGS!!!! IT CAN'T BE WRONG.....and then one day Ilyn Paine removes Ned Starks head with his own sword. The songs were wrong. The hound was right. Littlefinger was right. There is no meaning. There is no justice. The world isn't fair. The handsome prince is a monster. The monsterous warrior with the burnt face is a dreamer and the noble ned stark is now dead. Then the beautiful queen turns out to be a gaoler. But there is hope with Dontos. Florian the fool. Ok, maybe there is some way. Something. Some sense....bzzzzz ok sansa/reader got your hopes up again. lol life sucks. By the time we are at feast the lannisters (Tyrion and Jamie) are the good guys in a way, littlefinger is helping us, we are lying to the lords declarant. Everything is all wrong but yet somehow we always knew it was supposed to be this way. I really think that Sansa's path is one to watch very carefully. I think built into Sansa's arc is the arc that the reader will follow and that in the end Sansa will see the story finish, for better or for worse, and will be left in much the same place as the reader....where that is only George knows
  2. Re-Read Suggestion

    brothel re-read sounds excellent. Great idea!
  3. Re-Read Suggestion

    I knew a guy when the Harry Potter books would first come out that would go on road trips with his wife and young son who was just the right age. His wife would drive and he would read out loud. That was the whole trip. I remember thinking it was quite untoward to be jealous of a friends 7 year old kid and there was no way he was going to adopt a person 2 years older than himself.
  4. Re-Read Suggestion

    Leech, if you are going to call a mass scale annotation of a fantasy series "crazy" then we all better just put our bats and balls down and go home. Thanks for this. As for Reality...real, total bullshit.
  5. Re-Read Suggestion

    That is a fascinating idea. I don't know why this never occurred to me. I don't have the time to do a full read right now (which is why the targeted reading) but when (ugh and if) WOW gets announced I plan to do a straight read through at which point I will seriously consider reading AFFC and ADWD as a single volume! Thanks for that!
  6. Re-Read Suggestion

    So I am thinking of a targeted re-read. Anyone have any suggestions? Sorry I have been amongst the missing for a while.....dern RL keeps getting in the way. Not sure what any of it has to do with the price of tea in Westeros.
  7. I actuallh like that big H was given a POV so we could see Doran through his eyes. You are right, it could have been handled through Arienne, but i think it would have been a disservice to Doran. Hotah gives us a picture of Doran's inner mental and spiritual strength that ARienne is too young, too biased and too naive to really understand Here you are 100% right
  8. Why women don't take black

    I am not sure what use the women of westeros would be to the watch. Will they be rangers? No. Will they be builders? No. I guess they could be useful as stewards when they aren't being raped half to death...remember, a substantial number of men are at the wall because they are convicted rapers also, women don't really need the ability to take the black. At no point do we see a woman sentenced to death or dismemberment where the choice of a life of hard cold service in a castle filled with criminals would be a valid choice for them
  9. Most excellent and a propos
  10. I have to agree with @ravenous reader here. This here is exactly right. Authors die, literature is alive and well. One example I like to use is to think of the last words of Socrates. He says "Crito, we owe a cock to Asclepius" This seems odd. One might think he simply made a mistake and meant hermes as he was sentenced to death, at least in part, for one of his students knocking the units off of some Hermes statues around athens. Maybe he wanted some kind of cock replacement program to honor his death. Nietzsche, in the Gaya Scientia (1887) points out that sacrificing a cock to asclepius, however, is what one does when they get better from an illness. So, in essence, according to Nietzsche what Socrates is saying is that life, mortal life, is an illness and death is actually the cure, becoming pure spirit again. That sounds pretty good right? But think of where we are. 130 years, 2 world wars, mainstream existentialism and nihilism, a world almost totally bereft of god and sure, Nietzsche's answer makes sense. However, when Nietzsche said it this was after 2 millennia of other people reading this and Nietzsche's ideas were considered interesting, if not groundbreaking when he said them. So for 2000 years people what? just skipped over socrates' last words as if they didn't matter? Of course not. They had other ideas for what they meant --ideas that reflected the values, morals, thinking, weltgeist and general field of vision from their own time. What did Plato actually mean when he wrote them or Socrates actually mean when he said them (if he even did)....who the hell knows. But more than who the hell knows -- IT DOESN'T MATTER. It simply does not matter. The dialogue are a living set of documents interpreted over and over with each successive generation of academics from the standpoint of people who have all the former theories at their disposal. Think about the bible even. Billions of pages on paper about what the bible means, or shakespeare or James Joyce or Dostoyevsky what did the authors mean? It is impossible to guess which means it is simply not interesting. So take one of my favorite characters, The Hound. I see the hound as a romantic. He was a child who played with toy knights. He wants a song from Sansa...not a kiss, a song. The Hound is a beautiful and tragic figure who was a dreamer who had visions of chivalry but faced harsh abuse and had his dreams turned to ash but now and then they pop out....there is still the spark of the boy who played with his brothers toy knight in his heart. Did George intend the Hound to be this character? Not yes. Not no. The answer is, it does not matter and it is not interesting. This is why I generally avoid the SSM. I don't really care what spake martin most of the time. There is the text of the book and that is what matters. All documents, as Derrida points out, are alive. Want proof, read the Constitution. Article I Section 2 Paragraph 3 "Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons." Three fifths of all other persons. That would be african americans. We are in a more evolved time now when we can all look at this and say it is absurd, but there it is in the constitution and we are still counting black people as a full person today instead of 3/5 because the document has evolved its meaning over time to suit a new age. Hopefully Martin will finish the entire song of ice and fire and then those books will be read and discussed and analyzed for years, centuries maybe. And how we see these stories will be, as they always are, a reflection of the reader, not of the author. @YOVMO -- help me out here, please! Oh using Heidegger here is so deadly dangerous. In the origin of the work of art heidegger is trying to agree with the methodology of Nietzsche laid out, fragmentary as it is, in the Will to Power while avoiding the conclusion that Art is more important than Truth. Because of this, Heidegger makes so many shoehorn sidesteps with logic that he might as well be arguing that dasein is a secret targaryen. In this very book, Heidegger says about Van Gogh's painting Shoes From the dark opening of the worn insides of the shoes the toilsome tread of the worker stares forth. In the stiffly rugged heaviness of the shoes there is the accumulated tenacity of her slow trudge through the far-spreading and ever-uniform furrows of the field swept by a raw wind. On the leather lie the dampness and richness of the soil. Under the soles slides the loneliness of the field-path as evening falls. In the shoes vibrates the silent call of the earth, its quiet gift of the ripening grain and its unexplained self-refusal in the fallow desolation of the wintry field. This equipment is pervaded by uncomplaining anxiety as to the certainty of bread, the wordless joy of having once more withstood want, the trembling before the impending childbed and shivering at the surrounding menace of death. This equipment belongs to the earth, and it is protected in the world of the peasant woman. From out of this protected belonging the equipment itself rises to its resting-within-itself. In reality the shoes Van the man is painting are his own. Does that make Heidegger's interpretation "wrong" in some way? Of course not. That would be absurd. The art is simply there to occasion a moment of clarity into the self, not into the artist. How you read ASOIAF has more to do with you than it does with Martin. Remember, the hermeneutic circle does not exist to unlock some kind of secret hidden in the book by the author, but unlock some secret about the world and about your soul which is hidden not in the text but in the act of conducting an exegesis on it.
  11. Jon Snow = Pink Letter Writer

    ok, I am letting you off the hook this time but if I find you using sarcasm, humor, jocularity, playfulness, jest, jocose, joshing, wackiness or whimsy again I won't go so easy on you! This is A Song of Ice and Fire and not A Sportive of Ice and Fire. Please try to keep it in mind.
  12. Jon Snow = Pink Letter Writer

    The audacity you have to say this! Humor lacking on the boards? Lately??????? I feel very offended by this. What do you even mean by "board" is that some kind of pejorative against people who play Cyvasse? Really, someone needs to monitor these discussions. I feel very aggrieved and will be speaking to my attorneys...the law firm of X+Y=J
  13. Jon Snow = Pink Letter Writer

    They weren't triplets birthed near a lemon tree by ashara dayne and fathered by Brandon stark! The were triplets birthed near Brandon Stark by Ashara Dayne and her unholy love affair with a lemon tree, which was warged by bloodraven, from the future
  14. Jon Snow = Pink Letter Writer

    First of all, it is very clear that the Pink Letter is a secret Targaryen. I am guessing Aegon IV + Jeyne Lothston = Pink Letter making the PL not just a secret Targaryen but half brother to Bloodraven. I suppose this could lend some kind of credence to this theory if it wasn't so painfully clear that Bloodraven would never want to reveal the heritage of the Pink Letter as the PL is the rightful king of Westeros. Tricksy Lost Umber, the bird is Tricksy