Ckram

Members
  • Content count

    107
  • Joined

  • Last visited

1 Follower

About Ckram

  • Rank
    Sellsword
  1. The problem I see here is that we have nothing more than scornful judgements on Beric's history. And even now, four books later, not a single mention of a past feat. Do we? To me, the Wyls not seemed to mind the Dondarrions when they decided to capture and hold Aemon the Dragon Knight in a cage. You went too defensive here, friend. I base my comments on analogies and assumptions, nothing more. My feeling is that Daynes would dislike Barristan this bad because he was Arthur's sworn brother who dishonored their vows. Eddard, on the other hand, was not an personal enemy of Arthur's which proved himself to be an honored adversary. JonCon and Golden Company are moving North (King's Landing) and are counting on Dorne. Althought I think it's plausible that Edric and Anguy are together and delivering Beric's body in Blackhaven, I can't see why they would fight against the son of Elia and Rhaegar. Before you guys continue, I have a question: Edric is with Dondarrion since her aunt was betrothed, in 294 AC. In AGOT (298 AC), Beric left Blachaven to not come back for good. But until then he could have married Edric's aunt, though he did not. Isn't it a sign that maybe Edric's aunt is a young girl that hasn't flowered before AGOT? In other words, a girl about Edric's age?
  2. Got it! My eyes have betrayed me.
  3. Regarding Beric Dondarrio's "appearence and character", is stated in the wiki that Beric "is a dashing but inexperienced young man", and references that suposed support this are AGOT - Eddard XI and ASOS - Jaime IV. Jaime's chapter doesn't mention Beric at all. Eddard's chapter doesn't say nothing like that Beric is dashing but inexperienced. The ones that really disdain Beric are Tywin Lannister, Brynden Tully and Robb Stark, calling him a "lordling":
  4. In a recent thread, @The Twinslayer pointed out some matters about Allyria Dayne that revealed some inconsistencies in several entries of the wiki. Let me quote his words: In deed, in the books, Edric only says that Beric is promised to his aunt, but doesn't say her name. In another moment he say his aunt Allyria told him of Harrenhal, but don't confirm she's a Dayne: However, Allyria Dayne's page on the wiki is based on the app, a semi-canon, the only source that confirms that she's a Dayne and that she's the one berothed to Dondarrion: The problem is that this accurate remark is not reproduced in other entries, such the as the ones of House Dayne, Edric, Arthur and Beric, quoted below: IMHO, it has to be rewritten so the canon and semi-canon coexist with transparency. Something else I noticed is that reference nÂș 4 of Arthur Dayne's page mention a Davos chapter in ASOS which doesn't mention Ser Arthur at all.
  5. @Leo of House Cartel I am not of the opinion that Starfall is impregnable. Sorry, I think I didn't made my reference as clear as I wanted. I was refering to the first Dornish War, when the Targaryen's dragons attacked Starfall, to indicate that hiding Edric in a place as far and as improbable as Blackhaven would only be an good option if Starfall was to face a dragon threat. Regarding the third reason you pointed for Edric's stay in Blackhaven (and its comparison with Aegon VI), I imagine that he would be exposed to all of this even if he were a page and squire at the Westerlands, Riverlands, Crownlands or the Vale, where his House has no obvious enemies. One must have in mind that Beric was only 18 when he took Edric as a page, and we don't know if he had any fame at that time. However it's most likely that Beric had not done anything remarkable back then. Everything that he is now known for was developed during his time commanding the BwB. In deed, when Eddard first saw him by the Mud Gate of King's Landing (AGOT - Eddard VI), he literally ignored Beric, even in his thoughts. Then, when Eddard sent troops to kill the Mountain (AGOT - Eddard XI), he gave the command to Beric because it befitted his "rank", not because of his notorious abillities. Finally, Tywin called Beric "some young lordling with delusions of valor" (AGOT - Tyrion VII). Bryden Tully also called Beric a "lordling" (ACOK - Catelyn I). As for the political reasons, I can't see House Dayne wanting/needing an political alliance with a Marcher Lord which they don't share borders or, worse, with the usurper king. On the other Hand, I bet that Baristan Selmy is the last person they wanna hear of; Ser Arthur died fulfilling his duties and there goes Barristan, joyfully serving the usurper. Thus i find your arguments hard to agree with. However I still can't figure the reason why Edric was sent to Blackhaven. And what bothers me the most is that Edric was Lord of Starfall since the begining of the series (AGOT - Appendix), not an apparent heir that was sent to be fostered by a Lord (like Robert in the Eyrie). This makes me wonder if someone in House Dayne isn't planning to take power or is working on behalf of some other heir. If that is the case, sending Edric can be part of that plan, or maybe the opposite, a work of a "loyalist". But even this looks too far-fetched to me, since the whole thing took place in 294 AC and nobody makes mention of nothing special happening with Daynes of Starfall, even in Dorne. @TMIFairy That's the weirdest part: Blackhaven and Starfall don't share borders. They seem to be separated by the same distance there is between Riverrun and Casterly Rock. See for yourself here. In addition, Maester Yandel states the following in TWOIAF: "The castles of the Dornish Marches are among the strongest of the realm, and for good reason, for seldom has a generation passed when they have not faced some new attack". "The stony Dornish have the most in common with those north of the mountains and are the least touched by Rhoynish custom. This has not made them close allies with the Marcher lords or the Lords of the Reach, however; on the contrary, it has been said that the mountain lords have a history as savage as that of the mountain clans of the Vale, having for thousands of years warred with the Reach and the stormlands, as well as with each other." To me it is something like Middle East politics. This Dayne-Dondarrion coalition is very intriguing.
  6. @Shuvuuia Thanks! @Maester Crypt I did the same search. However click here and check out the meaning of this word in the books. @Leo of House Cartel I can't see sending Lord of Starfall to Blackhaven as a way of protecting him or of bringing peace to the Dornish marches. Unless one is expecting to be attacked by dragons, Starfall's island seems to be safer place to their lord than a castle on the Red Mountains, near the Boneway. On the other hand, even after Daeron I took dornish highborn hostages, the army he left there died by the hands of Dorne's smallfolk, acting on their own behalf. Thus the hostage logic don't garantee peace with Dorne. Regarding the political status of House Dayne after Robert's Rebbelion, we could assume that is the same of the rest of Dorne: to fake loyalty and plan rebellion. However since the aftermath for the Daynes envolved a little of honor (with Ned returning Dawn) and cooperation (backing Ned's story about Jon be Wylla's child), I dare say that the Daynes' stories will push dornish envelope, although I doubt it would be through their apparently ruined alliance with the Dondarrions. I would be very intrigued to see Dondarrion men anywhere in Dorne. But I agree that Blackhaven succession looks of importance to the plot and is been dutifully ignored by the Crown (although with a good reason, since nobody outside BwB seems able to tell if Beric is dead or alive). On the other hand, I wouldn't bet that Beric had a child with Allyria or some other Edric's aunt, once he was only promised to her (as shown above by @Shuvuuia).
  7. The source of the wiki on this is the app, for there is an entry there for "Allyria Dayne". Even it's a semi-canon, it remains as strong as a SSM. However, the marriage issue is a harder matter, since Edric say Beric had espoused his aunt in the canon (book), but the app says she has been betrothed to him. A made a little search on squire section of the wiki and did not find any previous example of dornish boys squiring for a marcher lord or vice versa. The same works for the pages section. Dayne-Dondarrion relationship sounds very weird to me, althought Blackhaven guards the Boneway, not the Prince's Pass, and the fact that House Dayne is historically known to attack the Reach, not the Stormlands, and are ancient enemies of House Oakheart. What is also worth noting is that this relationship maybe a very recent thing. Maybe part of some plan of House Dayne, or Martell.
  8. Roose wardenship was given in ASOS - Jaime IX, days after Tyrion's trial.
  9. 1. Why did Roose agree to this deal knowing he would lose Winterfell to the son of Tywin? Why is he working hard trying to restore Winterfell when it belongs to Tyrion? As you pointed out, Tywin granted Winterfell to Tyrion but the North was Boltons' prize. Lord of Winterfell and Warden of the North is not the same thing. So the northern center of power moved to Dreadfort whereas Tyrion gets Winterfell ruins and Stark lands (a title not so empty as the one Petyr got with Harrenhal, owing to Sansa's claim). But once Sansa disappears and Tyrion is condemned (losing the right on Winterfell), Ramsay becames a best opition to both Roose and the Iron Throne (he is legitimized in the very same chapter that Roose is declared Warden of the North - Jaime IX, ASOS). However in order to cement Ramsay's claim, Tywin sends him fArya (who was pulled from the wizard's hat only after the trial was over). 2. If the houses of the north could choose between Lord Roose and Lord Tyrion, who would they choose to have over them? Please give me an explanation why. @John Doe's answer. 3. How do you think the Boltons and the Freys were planning to deal with Tyrion? They knew what his marriage to Sansa meant. Everyone did. Yet they still agreed to Tywin's deal. Why? @John Doe's answer plus the feeling that Tyrion wouldn't make it, specially with the winter so close. 4. Any chance that Roose is actually the good guy. [...] Is it any wonder to you that Roose would think the north would be better off under his leadership than Robb's? No chance, IMO. It's clear that Roose did not acted on behalf of a greater good.
  10. @Wylla Manderly exactly.
  11. At least you tried to explain what role is left for Catelyn in the story so that she needed to be resurrected. I yet haven't found a good explanation for that.
  12. About Wyl of Wyl's acts during the First Dornish War Fawnton entry on the wiki tells us this: Old Oak entry, this: Wyl of Wyl, this: In first place, House Wyl entry makes no mention of this information. I have a feeling that it is relevant enough to be there, despite Yandel's refusal to go into detail. Second, according to Yandel "[the acts of Wyl of Wyl] are infamous enough and still remembered, especially in Fawnton and Old Oak". So it seems to me that it is common knowlodge in the Seven Kingdoms, not just in Fawnton and Old Oak (althought people in those places talk about it with resentment). Third, since this info is based on a sentence in which he refuses to tell us what happened, I think it's best to be considered as a Yandel's remark in all entries, exactly as it is in the Wyl of Wyl's page. Thus, I humbly suggest it goes like this in all entries (including House Wyl): "According to Maester Yandel, the Wyl of Wyl committed infamous deeds which are still remembered, especially in Fawnton and Old Oak, though the maester does not go into detail."
  13. I read ASOS - Catelyn V again and didn't find any evidence of multiple copies, nor that a copy was sent to Oldtown. Could you please provide a source?
  14. Yeah, it is in the books. A Storm of Swords - Jaime II Their father had summoned Cersei to court when she was twelve, hoping to make her a royal marriage. He refused every offer for her hand, preferring to keep her with him in the Tower of the Hand while she grew older and more womanly and ever more beautiful. No doubt he was waiting for Prince Viserys to mature, or perhaps for Rhaegar's wife to die in childbed. Elia of Dorne was never the healthiest of women.
  15. @Renly's Banana Forgive me, I momentarily forgot that Rhaegar wanted to call a council, not just replace his father at any cost. Your whole argument makes sense to me now. BTW, I think that if Rhaegar had become king Tywin would have done the possible to marry Cersei to Viserys. OTOH, if Lyanna really died giving birth to Jon, her death seemed inevitable, and, therefore, a problem for Rhaegar, Ned (if alive) and Martells to solve. @Ralphis Baratheon Why do you think Tywin would still order the murder of Rhaegar's children (and Elia, unintentionally) if had Rhaegar survived?