Corvo the Crow

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  1. Robb gets Myrcella, or Margaery, or one of the Manderly sisters if Ned wants to keep things within North. Sansa marries to the Royce heir if he isn't too old. Otherwise she marries an heir within Riverlands or becomes lady Karstark. Arya marries within the North. Bran, marries to some side branch of a principal house or a smaller principal house from Riverlands or Vale, gets a holdfast in the North. Rickon goes NW.
  2. But wasn't Benjen much closer with Lyanna? I always assumed that their sword play and Benjen falling into that dark pool had a hidden meaning... To reply to OP, yes he would. I believe he was only waiting for Jon to become an adult (and maybe pass a few years after that) so he'd have developed his character. Robert coming and snatching Ned changed his plans and we all know how good a planner he is...
  3. True. I'd like to add though, if it's a ruling lord we see having no children attached to him, then he probably died without any. As for his brothers, sisters and other relatives, yeah, they are pretty much irrelevant to us in a tree showing the mainline.
  4. Danaerys and lemon trees are an oversight on GRRM's (or editors, whatever) part. Just a few weeks ago an old thread has been brought up that explained it. Robb is Ned's son. We even get confirmation of it from Catelyn herself in her private thoughts. As if it needed any confirmation. Besides, it is war time and people move around a lot. It's not like they had pregnancy tests back then to confirm pregnancies in a short time and "moon's blood" method is unreliable. Think of Ned, he leaves catelyn two weeks after their marriage. And I don't think after their first night they were at their best trying to get heirs with a war to plan. Catelyn's thoughts also seem to confirm this.
  5. I am not. Just tried to mean that there are plenty of people of that kind and it's not just the forums. If you checked the link I provided, it actually gives a reason for that. Edit: Since this is a thread on religion, here's one personal example on that. I live in a "muslim" country, a lot of the uneducated masses consider themselves "religious" when they haven't even read their religion's holy book and most of the time they act in ways quite the opposite of teachings of Qhoran. I, a non-believer even as a small child, on the other hand, have actually read it and have tried many a time to teach these kind of people their own religion, to no avail. They just won't learn, won't read and will act as if they know it all without having the slightest idea on what they think they believe. Oh by the way, funnily enough I act more in accordance with the holy book despite having no belief in a god at all, because in all fairness there are actually some good ideas in there (same with Torah, haven't read the bible, yet.)
  6. @Free Northman Reborn Please check again as I'd like to have your thoughts on Florents having 2000 "swords"
  7. One small thing I've noticed; being able to call upon 2000 or so men seems to make one a greatlord and this is the number we are most commonly given for those whose numbers we know Karstarks have 2000 infantry and 300 horse Caron and Dondarrion had 4000 infantry and 800 horse Florents have 2000 men Edit: while I was at this: From here we know that Florents have 2000 men at best... or is it? If they have 2000 men, then we know from Davos chapters that they have a disproportionately high amount of horsemen compared to other lords, Tywin included; Despite being in Stannis' Van they still have 700 men or more after the battle of Blackwater, which would be 1:2 if this 700 was without any casualties, which is not, so with a total of 2000 men, their ratio before the battle would be more close to 1:1, perhaps even exceeding it. Horsemen are generally called "lances" and infantry men "spears". While referring to a group of both "swords" is used, but could it be that in some instances swords is used for infantry specifically, such as the one below? Is it possible that the 2000 swords Florents could call upon are their infantry levy?
  8. I've finished reading this but had no time to send a reply on it; The quotes provided there does portray the armies of Westeros as trained and well equipped and not some random peasants drafted into the army, given neither training nor equipment, which is a misconception, I know... But then there are other quotes which tell us somewhat the oppositeof it; that the army is made up of people taken from their fields. Below are just a few examples of it: Call it poor World building on Martin's part if you'd like but they are there as are the ones that portray somewhat professional armies.
  9. It is somewhat relevant, actually. We get no mention of Umbers throughout the campaign apart from Greatjon and Smalljon, that is until Arya sees them. Of course absence of mention doesn't mean their absence, I just provided possible commanders for the infantry part who are mentioned early in the story but not after Robb splits his army; people who are no longer mentioned after Catelyn is no longer present as a PoV for the foot part of Robb's host.
  10. Are the two so different for those whose trade itself isn't slavery? Cities of Slaver's bay would fell into ruin since it is the source of their economy but it wouldn't effect free cities as badly. In fact, Braavos is able to survive without it and Pentos also, with no slave trade since they have lost to Braavos.
  11. My reasoning is there, but of course there is room for doubt. Could it be Manderlys were on the furthest right when Tyrion was on furthest left, therefore making them hard to spot? or they were on the reserves and acted as rearguard later on? Sure, it is possible. But even after all their casualties and even if Harrion had all the Karstark strength from start with him these three houseswould have on average 500-600 infantry in Duskendale (which takes place after a battle which reduces the 14500-15000 Northern men to 10000) so it isn't far fetched for them to have on average well over 1000 infantry at start. Especially when these houses are among the ones Tyrion is able to spot at a glance, indicating they are much more numerous than other houses, at least on the frontlines. As for Umbers, Tallharts and Mountain Clans; Tallhart banners are never seen until he takes his 400 men to Duskendale. He would have some other men of course, but they would be few enough to be lost among the larger hosts. Mormonts would have fewer than Tallharts in their island and we see Alysanne having so few men that she isn't able to directly confront 4 longships (would mean 120-150 men at most)which weren't even full. Most people seem to agree that mountain clansmen had 500 men with Robb, possibly because of Ruby Ford. After Greatjon has taken all the men South Umbers raise 800; 400-450 old men and 350-400 boys whereas Karstarks are able to raise 600 men just from the young or Rodrick raising the same amount of young men in a very short time or Cerwyns raising 300 men again in a short time or Boltons raising 400-600 men. This should be an indication that Umbers don't have near as many men as any of these houses because they had time to prepare and this was what they were able to raise, compared to some houses which raise the same or more young men in a very short time.
  12. You don't say...
  13. Summary: Hornwood, Glover and Cerwyn had more than 1250 infantry each with Robb. Banners and standards can tell a lot It is from this quote I get a rough estimate on who had how many with Rodrick. We know that Rodrick had 600 and Cley Cerwyn had 300 Cerwyn banners are everywhere with Tallhart and Manderly banners as well, but Flint and Karstark banners aren't as numerous with Hornwood banners present only here and there. So Hornwoods have very few men compared to others and Flints and Karstarks have fewer men than Tallharts and Manderlys which have as many, or near as many as the 300 of Cerwyns. Using this: A rough breakdown of Rodrick's army would be 600 Starks, 300 Cerwyns, 250-300 Manderlys and Tallharts, 150-200 Flints and Karstarks, 50-100 Hornwoods. Which bring us to 2000 with highest numbers and 1750 with the lowest ones, all within range of Rodrick's statement of "near two thousand" if we add the few men Starks and Cerwyns may have lost against Cleftjaw. Now with the importance of banners on determining numbers shown with an example, below will be another look into relative strength of the Northern houses in Robb's foot through them. Below is Tyrion describing the Lannister army So he is able to see the banners in all the flanks. And below is Roose's army, as seen through Tyrion's eyes. Stark banners are seen everywhere, but that is to be expected as they are the liege lord of all the others (except Freys). Disregarding the absence of mention of Bolton banners, who would be in the rear and Dustin ones which Barbrey sent as few as she dared, these are the houses the banners Tyrion is able to spot: Karstarks with near 2000 infantry, Freys with near 2600 and Cerwyn, Glover and Hornwood with unknown numbers. He isn't able to spot any Flints(of either lordly branch), Mormonts, Tallharts, Umbers, Ryswells, Slates, Lockes, Longs, Holts, Ashwoods, Woolfields and any others I fail to mention here, or were never mentioned, all with an unspecified amount of men. He also isn't able to spot Manderlys with 1250 men. This should be hinting towards Cerwnys, Glovers and Hornwoods having more infantry(not necessarily overall more troops) than all the others not mentioned, including Manderlys with their 1250. To further support this, we know Tallharts(400) and remnants of Karstark, Glover, Cerwyn and Hornwood were around 4000(Roose had 10000 Northman after Green Fork, had some 6000 after Duskendale) and Cerwyns and Hornwoods at least still have some men remaining with Roose, numbering in the low hundreds. From the quote below, Harrion couldn't have had much more than 1300 in Duskendale even if Karstarks suffered no losses. So even after all the battling, there are 2300, perhaps more Hornwood, Cerwyn, Glover infantry in Duskendale and some Hornwood and Cerwyn with Roose (100 Hornwoods and 50-100 Cerwyns defending his rear and maybe some more going to Twins). Meaning even with all the casualties taken, they have on average 800 men.
  14. I have suggested that Umbers still had surviving infantry during Red Wedding, due to Arya seeing them with Mountain Clansmen and Karstark men; men who couldn't have been with Robb. This is just a small thing on who would have their command, since we get no mention of them. Well there it is, Greatjon has brothers who he could leave the command to, just like Rickard Karstark leaving command to his eldest.
  15. What you say actually has a name to it. I bet you'll be interested in it so here it is. I wonder who could these people be...