Blue-Eyed Wolf

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  1. No kidding! Well they solved that little conundrum of having to worry about development by simply erasing Bran altogether and just replaced him with the 3ER, a blank slate with 90s dial-up internet that just spouts things we already know and nothing useful for the war. And this is what we've come to. We can't dismiss anything for being too crazy, implausible or stupid. I hesitate, though I understand the temptation, to then say this could be proof that it is true. Queen is right. Literally anyone could write this cobbling together a fanfic from the season 7 leaks and a smattering of book knowledge. A plausible, but unverifiable hype train that will get some decent attention for it's "leaker," who could just as easily be trying to ride on the coattails of the accuracy of season 7 leaks. Just because fake leaks (I think?) came out after the fact this season, could also mean someone is just trying to get a jump on the hype since there's so much time before filming actually starts.
  2. I don't know. Sounds like much of it could easily be piggy backed on to season 7 leaks. I'll definitely take it more seriously when we see some supporting evidence when shooting starts. I've already seen conflicts over when characters supposedly die. Bran's story seems like a massive let down after a very long build up to the 3ER and it all amounts to not much of anything important. If only the writing on the show weren't so damn terrible I could say this is implausible.
  3. He was hiding and watched Arya come out of his room. He knew she was following him and make a big show of "Lady Sansa thanks you for your service." He planted it knowing she was going to find it. If he wanted to claim Sansa is a traitor, he could have just gone to Arya with the letter and played up the whole "I loved your mother" thing he did with Bran (even that would be weak, but if that was his goal). By letting her witness all that he's implicating himself, making Arya his enemy.
  4. Why is he planting the letter in his own room? Isn't that just making himself Arya's target as well? Why wouldn't he plant it in something of Sansa's and arrange for Arya to find it?
  5. This isn't the thread for debating such things. Don't open that can of worms if you don't want to get reported.
  6. Gendry was the best thing the only good thing about the episode, but looses points for lack of Arya mention. Show!Arya is just unhinged. Did she really suggest beheading people as an appropriate response to "insulting" Jon? That whole conflict was based on the flimsiest of reasons, because Sansa reasserted publically that Jon is king. And she could have just taken the North too if she wanted. She had the support of the Northern lords plus the Vale. But she's supposed to be ruthlessly ambitious right? I don't know what to make of LF's plan to plant Sansa's letter in his own room. Doesn't that make himself also a target for Arya? What was that bribery of that female servant for? Arya's the worst spy ever if LF knew all the exact moments she was watching him. Why not use some of that FM training and disguise herself as a servant? Jon has zero reaction to leaning Arya and Bran are alive. He showed more emotion at petting a dragon. Davos very casually mentions Tyrion killed his son with wildfire, but whatever. That's in the past, right? Eastwatch scenes were so underwhelming for such a fanservicey cast ensemble. Mostly nothing but meaningless bickering, except for Gendry mentioning he was sold to Melissandre by the Brotherhood. Tormund brings up Jorah's father hunted wildlings. That gets brought up, but no mention of Arya or Sansa by anyone. Can't wait for this road trip.
  7. Yes, great post @Tijgy. Agree with all of this. Ned's unconditional love really held on for a long time. Even during the rebellion when Ned learned of the deaths of Elia's children and he and Robert had a falling out over it. They came back together again over Lyanna's death. Then the child killing theme rears its head again when they are debating sending assassins after Danaerys. How Ned's heart must have sank though when he pleaded with Robert to spare Lady for the love he bore Lyanna and his love for him. And Robert just can't be bothered because he doesn't want to deal with an argument with Cersei. Goes to show just how deep Robert's love is for anyone. The warning signs about his friend's true character were there for years and Ned just didn't see them. I do think Ned was first legitimately concerned that Robert would kill Cersei's children because Robert did give him cause to believe that. The deathbed scene is touching because even after all that Ned felt moved to spare Robert pain. It's not quite a type of unrequited love, because Robert did claim to love Ned. It was more of a case of Ned loving someone too much who didn't really deserve it. Not because he was deceptive, but Robert just "loved" others when it was easy and didn't cost him anything.
  8. The triangle gets even more triangle-y when you consider Sansa was all heart-eyes for Loras. Both she and Brienne have that innocent naivete and a cluelessness about their respective crushes. They're not only gay, nut a couple. Both are over the moon when they get a token from their crushes: the rose and the kingsguard cloak, not realizing they don't mean anything really from the giver. It's classic "love from afar" with gender roles reversed. On the other hand, Renly and Loras are kinda forced into playing into these hetero-normative performances. Portraying gay couples can have pitfalls of harmful tropes. I think Loras and Renly avoid a lot of them, but that's coming from a hetero female. I could be wrong. Renly's death had nothing to do with his sexuality, but it's all too common to portray gay characters as coming to tragic end. I dohope in the future George includes a homosexual pairing actually their dream of spring
  9. @The Fattest Leech brought up Renly and Loras, which is a great one. So much of their relationship is implied and kind of a worst kept secret. Loras's grief is so palpable. I know Loras was very much in love with Renly, but did Renly feel as strongly for Loras? Renly just strikes me as kinda shallow, but Loras could see another side to him. Or is it possible Loras was as taken with Renly's superficial charm as Brienne was? I love that triangle as a twist on the knight and lady-love trope. (I'm moving this forward cause I just can't with that mess today)
  10. Couple of things. I agree there are no winners under patriarchy, including men. I do feel sympathy for male characters being forced into marriages they are unhappy with. Sometimes women also utilize the system against other women when they can for selfish purpose. That It doesn't negate the fact that often the women will get the shorter end of the stick and the system is skewed in favor of men. It's not equally bad for both men and women. A man can rape his wife and it's not a crime. It's his right. Law and custom is still skewed in favor of male property rights. If a wife brings wealth and property into a marriage, it belongs to her husband. Even if she were to physically leave and live a separate life, she must also give up her children in that process. They're his heirs and would remain in his custody. That would be a huge deterrent for many in trying to leave a bad marriage. Men still have the final say in all decisions. So much of what the septas teach their charges is how to be pleasing and submissive. There's also the burden of risk women face in pregnancy and childbirth, which again coupled with husbands being allowed to exercise their rights over her body gives her not much say in reproduction unless she secretly takes moontea on the sly. All a man is really required to do is get at least one male heir from his wife preferably. After a smooth succession is secured, he doesn't have to have sex with his wife again if he doesn't want to. There's nothing stopping him from having lovers. Do women have the right to seek out lovers? Nope. Not without risk and consequences to herself. This is all very normalized and condoned by every institution in Westeros. Now most men don't go abusing their wives even if it's a loveless marriage. Most are men are not total shit bags and do try to have a pleasant relationship with their wives, but one can't deny that the system would protect them if they were total shit bags. Ned is 95% a very good loving husband, but even he exercised his rights as the ultimate authority. If a woman is being mistreated, she doesn't really have any recourse. In all your examples, men still have the most amount of choice. Ned was Lord of Winterfell and chose to marry Cat. Harold Hardyng is not betrothed yet. It's made clear the betrothal hinges upon his approval. SR is the only exception as a minor child. Even in both those cases, nothing happens until Tyrion dies or the marriage is somehow annulled. Olenna can scheme and she wields influence, but ultimately who marries Willas is still officially up to Mace or Willas if Mace dies.
  11. No doubt she will be in the crosshairs. She is, however, the mother of the next heir to House Tully should the worst happen to Edmure. I don't think even LS would harm Edmure's child. Roslin's fate is still up in the air though. Good catch on that quote! For comparison, look at the way Cersei dresses to portray herself as a maiden even though her youth is fading and alcohol is taking its toll on her body. She looks upon Jaime's stump as if he's been gelded and made useless. Brienne's Tarth sigil is the sun and moon, so maybe we should be thinking in terms of "solar king" and "moon maiden" symbolism. Then she ends up taking Jaime's "borrowed" shield with the Lothston sigil from Harrenhal. As both are reviled as kingslayers, they share the infamous sigil but it's almost like share a "house" now. Then she has the shield repainted unknowingly to Dunk's sigil, the true knight / non-knight: the shooting star over the tree. Brienne is on a path of becoming someone who a song will be written about. A lady knight who gains a reputation for being a slayer of dangerous outlaws and defending orphans. She may never be a kingsguard like she dreamed of being, but I think she'll be hailed as a true knight among common people. She'll get the recognition for her skill and bravery she wants most of all there. Her real super power is how she affects other people. Jaime, Podrick, Hyle Hunt, (Elder Brother ) and I think Gendry as well. I don't know if Jaime / Brienne have a future together, but no doubt she's radically changed his life for the better. If Jaime survives, I could also see him maybe possibly joining the Watch and finding his honor with a black cloak that the white couldn't give him. That would also fully reject the idea that he and Cersei are one person and they are fated to die together as he once believed. Anything that proves Cersei wrong I'm okay with I agree. I think that people like Gendry and Hot Pie are her chosen family that exist along side her Stark family. There was love in her biological family, but not always the most acceptance. Arya actually believed her mother might not want her back at the Twins, but in reality Cat was willing to take drastic measures to get both her girls back. Even so, Robb had already taken steps to betroth Arya to a Frey for a political alliance that he needed, something Arya would have flat out resisted if she knew about it, no matter how much she loves her family. Even her father that at times seemed indulgent of her interests expected her to grow up and act proper once she was came of age. People like Arya also need a chosen family to fulfill the needs their biological family can't. Gendry and Hot Pie make her feel normal and accepted. I don't think Arya is actually consciously aware of how beneficial a chosen family can be to people like her. She's very quick to call anything she doesn't like or understand "stupid." Separation in the story can give a character a different perspective on things they had before. Just because they reunite it also doesn't mean the relationship will be consummated by sex on page, so I think we need to relax and not jump to that conclusion. They may take a good long time of developing a new intimacy in sharing their experiences while they were apart. The most they might do on page is kiss and a sexual relationship might be hinted at in the future off page. But if sex does happen, so be it. I've long since stopped trying to make any real world sense of age appropriateness in the story and I try to focus on the character's psychological development rather than chronological age. Remember, our beloved Ned thinks it's good parenting to take your seven year old to a beheading and praise him if he can watch it without flinching. Boys are trained for lethal violence before they reach the double digits. As fantasy fans we think that is super cool, but let's be honest. They are being trained to kill and be okay with killing. We know kids as young as 12 can be expected to fight in a real war. By real world standards this morally reprehensible and abuse, but on Planetos it's the proper way to raise a boy. Right from the jump we should realize this world has a very different ideas about what is appropriate and normal for young people. As long as it's enthusiastically consensual, both people are happier for it, and it adds to the narrative, I can suspend my real world objections. Thanks for the compliment! I will PM you about your question. You raise a good point about Robb's vulnerability and grief maybe playing a role in his decision to have sex with Jeyne. It's all rolled into the normal teenage stuff too, but he's also under enormous pressure running a war and that comes with thinking about his own mortality. I think he probably was looking for comfort perhaps more than just being young and horny. There's plenty of camp followers to relieve needs without worry about dishonoring anyone. Jeyne seems like a really sweet girl and I could see why Robb was drawn to her then. I don't think if he had met Jeyne under other circumstances he would have been overcome with passion or entered into a hasty relationship. Robb doesn't strike me as being that impulsive under normal circumstances. People do have sex to feel better in times of grief and stress. It's life affirming in the face of death and tragedy. All the pairings already ended in the past or had glaring reasons why they were not going to last right from the jump. They have plot advancing purpose and are learning experiences for the POVs certainly. I can see why those pairings logically exist without foreshadowing being necessary. It gives us something new, but not truly coming out of nowhere, which would a cheap plot device if it were. In the case of Robb/Jeyne, they were a surprise but the RW set up was not. By contrast, I do consider things that George takes painstaking effort to lay groundwork for and to foreshadow are probably the things that will give the biggest payoff somehow, someway in the future. The writer is the omnipotent God of this world. Not a blade of grass exists without him wanting it to. So X character being attracted to Y character doesn't happen unless George has a purpose for it existing. Sometimes it's a small reason, sometimes it's a big reason. Realism comes from something being relatable and "feeling real" rather than being a perfect replication of all the random, meaningless junk that happens in real life. I think it was way more time and effort for George to set up these things than for many readers to recognize them. As a writer, you just don't devote that ridiculous amount of page space to something you intend to amount to nothing or very little. That's the definition of a boring waste of time. Writing it and reading it. The literary tool of foreshadowing actually makes a great deal of sense when your characters are young. Mentally Arya and Sansa are not ready for an adult relationship. If George wants it to ultimately come to a positive romantic story, he can't have it starting literally on page when they aren't ready. That would be clueless and unconscionable to expect the reader to accept it as a positive romance; however, he can let us know his future intentions and play with the idea "safely" by using subtext, symbolism, and foreshadowing. Things the characters are not aware of, but readers are. The relationship then avoids being tainted in the present while setting us up for the future, when the timing is right and the characters are ready. Unlike many of the pairings you listed, I don't think we get a sense of finality with Sansa/Sandor and Arya Gendry. There's more of a sense of things left hanging and unfinished business by the abrupt way they each separated. The separation is actually a good thing, because it allows for some necessary character growth on everyone's part. Our personal approval or disapproval of a pairing is ultimately irrelevant to the story George wants to tell. There are things I think are boring too, but that only indicates my personal tastes or interests. It's no way to measure the importance of something George has in mind. He knows why he's doing what he's doing, even if sometimes we don't. As for why I think those pairings would be relevant to the story... I think George has shown us how deeply flawed this patriarchal traditional system is. Both these girls have been sought after for that purpose. Arya was promised to a Frey because Robb needed it, even though he married for love. A fake Arya is being used to legitimize the Boltons claim on Winterfell. Sansa was wed to Tyrion for the purpose of placing a Lannister in Winterfell and obliterating House Stark for good. There were also the Tyrells, Lysa wanting her to SR, we found out LF asked Cersei to let him wed her, and now Harrold Hardyng. FFS, these girls just continue to be up for grabs to be used to bolster the power of other male characters. I find it hard to believe considering that they are important POVs that all George can imagine is yet another arranged marriage as a major plot point and contribution. It's a very heavily beaten dead horse and has never meant anything good so far. I do think George has something completely different in mind for them, something that utilizes their established story and individual talents. Why would it be a useless thing to have partnerships that validate their individuality and the major themes in the arcs that George gave them? These guys don't care about any of their claims or titles. They just care about the sisters as human beings. In fact, their social status is actually a hinderance, not a benefit to them. They're the ones who risk the most by reaching so far above their station. Individual fulfillment is not frivolous. It can mean a lot in preparing a character for the final phase of the story. Both sisters have expressed a need for acceptance and being loved for themselves. The pairings are written to be very specifically compatible with each other. They share core values, which is a big deal in a relationship built for the long-haul. Justice and compassion toward the common people for Arya/Gendry. True knighthood and idealism in Sandor/Sansa. But they also have different life experiences so they can challenge each other too. It gives the dynamic interest and keeps each other evolving. There's mutual support and caring. Nothing literally sexual has even happened, but the interactions can be very authentic and intimate. That's a solid foundation that a real love can be born out of. I think there's a lot of potential here for Gendry and Sandor helping to bring Arya and Sansa back to their true identities and core values after their respective separation periods. The sisters won't be unscathed from what they've been exposed to. They need a lifeline and from someone who cares about them. Sandor does have problematic issues, but they aren't insurmountable ones. I highly doubt he's fated to a monastic life or to be a holy warrior. Stranger has refused to be gelded (which is essentially what a celibate life entails) and he resists being turned into a plowhorse, something he is not. Stranger is a stallion, he's meant to make babies. lol As a character, Sandor has revealed deep down he had a desire for home and family when he accepted the position on the kingsguard, which was the final deathblow to that hope. While I think he will find a true brother in Elder Brother, they will relate on the basis that EB was a knight that did some bad stuff himself and was traumatized by violence. The religious order on the QI doesn't strike me as the same rigid fundamentalism of the Warrior's Sons or the Sparrows in KL. They seem a lot less judgey and more about peaceful communal living. Considering his deep regrets about leaving Sansa, I think he would seek to atone for how he failed her. I think he will be saving his anger for those who truly deserve it. He is capable of being patient and gentle too. I think we don't have to worry about him being drunk and brutish towards Sansa in the future. Gendry was working towards his own knighthood too, but the BwB is deteriorating into more dubious territory since Beric died. Brienne, who has a very strong moral compass, entering his arc may be what he needs right now as someone who can teach him and also tell him about his parentage. It probably would politically mean nothing, but it would mean a lot personally I think. It would make sense of why he was made to be Mott's apprentice and why he was shipped off to the Wall. Anyway, unlike any other possible suitors for the sisters, these guys are actually doing the work of earning their knighthood just on the tiniest hope that proving themselves could give them a sliver of a chance. Earning it is a huge theme in the story. Not in the sense that the girls are prizes, I think it's more of how they feel about their own worth and how they want to be recognized. Oh the Gendry that "blushes like a maid" when he's being hit on? Who firmly rejects the offer to have his bell rung twice? He was clearly uncomfortable with being offered a freebie. Please point to the text that leads you to be so certain that he's suddenly now following his dick around everywhere, because that characterization is absurd. I think it's pretty clear Gendry is not his womanizing father. That's really funny how you think "the shippers" are making mountains out of molehills when you just pulled some unsubstantiated bullshit out of thin air to try to prove your point. Again you characterization is inaccurate. LF and Sandor could not be more different. I have no problem acknowledging Sandor's issues, but they aren't the same as LF's at all. Sandor was an innocent little kid when Gregor burned him. That wasn't what killed his idealism. It was the cover up and system rewarding that mountain of human garbage continuously for years. He murdered their father. It's implied something foul happened to the unnamed sister as well. Blatant kinslaying which he should have been executed for. Knighted by the crown prince himself, the family lands, the home, 3 marriages (no justice for the murdered wives either), Lannister gold, and the protection of Tywin himself because Gregor is useful. Sandor had to escape and make his own way with nothing. Sandor does have personal responsibility for his own adult life, but he suffered a grievous injustice. LF was never that innocent or idealistic. There's some disturbing personality traits he exhibits early on. At 8 years old he was sticking his tongue in Catelyn and Lysa's mouth. She says he was always very bold, which reads to me like he often crossed boundaries and exhibited inappropriate behavior. He talks about his father with cold detachment, even though it appears he was raised by a father that loved him. Among other traits we see in his adulthood, he shows signs of being a psychopath. He may have wanted Catelyn, but she never gave him any serious encouragement that she returned his feelings. So even if she danced with him six times (big deal, it was a party) she refused to kiss him. Rejection hurts, but it still needs to be respected. This was beyond a foolish, innocent crush but had some dangerous entitlement undertones. He projected what he wanted on to it. He escalated it to the duel without even considering that Catelyn had no such intention of breaking her betrothal anyway. She still didn't want Petyr hurt though. Brandon shouldn't have hurt him so badly either, but Petyr largely brought this upon himself by insisting on the duel. They did not destroy his innocence and idealism. He was in full on denial that Catelyn never had those feelings and tried to foist his feelings upon her more than once. I do feel that what Lysa did to him was a rape and I do feel sympathy for that. LF does not give a fuck about Sansa. He wants to use her for completely selfish purposes, he is sexually abusing her, he has lied to her, he has placed her in dangerous situations. Yes they both see her innocence and naivete. Sandor sees it and it makes him concerned for her. He tries to tear the veil from her eyes to help her. But what also makes him care particularly about her, is the she cared first when she took his side over what Gregor did. She validated his feelings and told him it was wrong Gregor was rewarded. She also never told anyone else about his secret. Sandor doesn't go around rescuing every vulnerable, innocent person in KL. He only does that for Sansa because she was genuinely kind to him (even when he was being mean), never betrayed him, and never exploited his vulnerability. LF sees her innocence and preys upon it. He uses it to manipulate her. It's textbook 101 for how a sexual predator grooms a victim. Sandor has noticed her physically (but honestly everyone in the castle has when he does), but when he realizes that she's still mentally immature, he backtracks the hell out of there. It makes him uncomfortable. LF creeps on her even before she developed and has forced kisses on her and touched her breast. Sandor has never touched her in a sexual way. Sandor has always tried to tell her the truth as he knows it and has protected her from harm when he could. He's never used her or manipulated her. The most terrible thing Sandor did was scare her in a drunken PTSD meltdown, something he felt horrible guilt over. As horrible and wrong it is to demand anything from a scared girl at knifepoint, what he was demanding was the literal song of FLorian and Jonquil. Not the metaphoric "song". He already knows she's too young and not ready. So even if he desired her (which I think he did), unlike LF, he does not force that desire upon her. Her consent matters to him. Nothing actually sexual happens in that scene and he doesn't force her to go with him against her will. He even thinks he's the worst piece of shit for not doing more for her. LF has no guilt about anything. In fact, I think he implies he expects a sexual relationship to escalate after he marries her to HtH when her virginity isn't an issue. So even Sandor's worst incident is nothing compared to the really horrible sexual abuse LF is doing. They are not the same.
  12. I agree with you. I went back and read my post and realized it may have sounded like I was accusing you of derailing the thread. I know it wasn't you. I apologize my wording made it seem that way. I was truly just trying to link to a spot we were talking about Val and Ygritte and if there's anything you would like to add. I think Sansa x Sandor and Arya x Gendry have been covered pretty thoroughly and I'd like to see some more examples of different types of love. Unrequited, star-crossed, "unhealthy," or whatever we can think of. It's interesting to see why people think George made X character attracted to Y character or the subtle ways he conveys chemistry between two personality types. Well yes, it certainly serves a plot purpose to break them up. I think we don't see a lot of happy couples of true compatibility because the system isn't really set up for that. This is a story mostly told by nobles. I do think most parents do try to make sure their children are matched with someone that will treat them well, but it's usually always in the confines of someone within a strict set of class boundaries. Ned and Cat are such a rare exception that found love in an arranged marriage. Even in real life all our relationships will end until you find one that doesn't. To find real love the way Cat and Ned did seems even more rare than even real life people with options. You also mentioned Tywin and Joanna, which I agree, he seems to have truly loved her. He was also the lord and had the advantage of being able to choose for himself. We have a lot of family tragedy depicted in the story that is the result of really terrible marriages. And then you have people that could really be a good fit for each other (and probably raise some happy kids) kept apart because of even minor disparities in social status. I think George really shows us the glaring things wrong with the "right and proper way" of bringing people together in their society. Yeah, I do want to see what's going to happen with Roslin and Edmure. For all his faults, Edmure is a pretty decent guy that would probably make a very good husband. I have to wonder slightly how strong Robb's feelings were after he decided to do the honorable thing and marry Jeyne. No doubt Jeyne feels very strongly about Robb. Robb seem to (and maybe this was because of the stress he was under) shut Jeyne out emotionally. She even goes to Catelyn for advice on how to approach him. They do clearly have an active sex life, which is probably good for them both but Robb is also very motivated to get an heir quickly. Then Robb dies and he's forever fixed in time as the young, dashing hero brought down by treachery. He's never going to be a "real" guy after the honeymoon has worn off and she's never going to really clash with his faults as you normally do in marriage. Some things we may never get to know since he's dead. I do think Robb would have made a good faith effort to make Jeyne happy if he wasn't busy fighting a war.
  13. Ygritte and Val were mentioned before starting here I believe. It just got a little buried in the thread. But if you have more to add to these guys, please do! It would be nice if we could steer this thread back to discussing love in the series and away from who is the bigger murderer...
  14. Thank you! On another note (and I've seen this come up before) is that Arya is not capable of having attractions because of her age. Uh, Sansa at about 8 or 9 thought Waymar Royce (who was in his mid teens) was dreamy. Bran at the same age has a little puppy love crush on 16 year old Meera. It's all very cute and innocent. This isn't abnormal. I distinctly remember being in that age group and having discussions with classmates about who we thought was cute. Remember passing these notes in class: Do you like me? Check yes or no. Just because it's not the more overtly romantic or sexual attraction of teenagers and adults, doesn't mean it doesn't count as a legitimate attraction or desire for for someone to reciprocate the feeling. Even if it's just hand-holding or playing together. I do like how George has captured being at an age where you're hovering between knowing things and not knowing things. Arya is mostly a very practical, no-nonsense person, so she wouldn't really express attraction with blatant heart-eyes like her sister. I think it's pretty obvious she takes notice of Gendry physically nonetheless. Twice she's taken a good look at his bare chest. Both times she's not looked at him that way face to face, but from afar and secretly to herself. The above is especially described in pretty sensual terms. Gendry looks exactly like young Robert, so I think we can safely say he's a very conventionally attractive guy. Her actions and unfiltered thoughts betray her, no matter what she says out loud or gives deliberate thought to. Right. We're constantly getting a juxtaposition of dogs and wolves. Dogs are descended from wolves. Sandor himself in physical description and in his values just seems like a displaced Northman living in a southron world. I also think house Clegane as a holdfast is gone. Gregor's dead. Sandor left Lannister service for good. It's a house of nightmares anyway. It hasn't really been gotten around to, but the Lannister's are within their rights to reclaim it and give it to another vassal. Plus Gregor really made the name so infamous and hated throughout Westeros, there's nothing Sandor could really do to change that. It's been nothing but a stigma for him, even if he has pride in what his grandfather did. I think he would be better suited to taking the Stark name and becoming a direwolf. And I found the precedent for it. Joffrey Lannister, born Joffrey Lydden. Married King Gerold III Lannister's daughter and took her name when House Lannister had no male issue. House Lannister was about to go extinct. Very interestingly this was also a case of a knight, Ser Joffrey, who married a princess and became King of the Westerlands. Not saying that's what I think will exactly happen in a Sansan endgame, but I'm just pointing out it's rare but pairings like this can happen. George tends to give us some sort of historic parallel so when rare events happen, it's not out of left field completely. It's within the "rules" of the canon. A few times she's licked / kissed by a dog or wolf. The dog is certainly a parallel with Sandor's state of mind while he's in Arya's arc. He's certainly regretful of leaving her and looking for ways to get back to her. Hmmmm. Might have to amend some of my essay. Bryen / Byron. Bryen's "sleeping dog." Kiss / lick on the hand. Byron's kiss on the hand. The same dog she will wish were Lady, her wolf, after she awakens from an erotic dream where Tyrion is replaced by Sandor in the marriage bed. He "devours" her with his eyes which is the very definition of being "wolfish." So by wishing the dog were her wolf, dream of the marriage bed, it might be a foreshadowing of turning the Dog into a Direwolf through marriage.
  15. Well after the RW, she imagines finding the the BwB again and riding along side Gendry as an outlaw like Wenda the White Fawn. Oh, but that's stupid Sansa stuff right out of the stories uh huh. I agree, if she has an endgame with him I think it will be utilizing both their talents and values by defending the smallfolk. She has acceptance that she has always longed for and a purpose that is fulfilling to her character. I don't think Sansa is any different. I think the story is clearly moving away from arranged marriages that uses either of them for their claims. It didn't seem like it in the beginning, but both girls really have the willfulness to resist that fate. Oh yeah, they'll be way more alike in the end IMO, there's a possibility that Sansa's husband might take her family name to keep the next generation of Starks going. "She's not a dog, she's a direwolf." Wives taking the husband's last name is not automatic according to George. IIRC, there is one precedent for the above happening, but I need to look it up. Would be a rare event in the story of an outsider wanting to be a Stark and actually becomes one.