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    I Shot J.R.
  1. Thanks for clearing that up! That doesn't blow the possibility out of the water, though. I'm thinking with the way Beric had Edric at court in KL, the joining of the 2 Houses was common knowledge, yet no one else in the story seemed to be bothered enough by it to comment about it after 5 books. I do not remember very many Dornishmen at court during King Robert's reign, so if there was something suspicious or odd about that particular match I would think it would have stood out in a court full of Westermen, Stormlanders and Valemen. (And, The Daynes are mentioned A LOT in the novels!) That leads me to thinking that maybe The Daynes had to agree to allow their next male-born heir to foster in the Stormlands and have marry a daughter into a Stormlord family (possibly of their choosing?) as part of the Jon Arryn - Martell Truce. Why else would such an ancient House attach themselves in such a way to, what seems to me, as a lesser House from a hostile kingdom? Maybe it is punishment/fealty. Makes sense to me and would be consistent with the way politics in Westeros functions.
  2. What if Edric was given up as a ward (hostage) by House Dayne as fealty after the rebellion and they were forced to marry a Dayne daughter to one of the Reacher Lords? It makes sense for Robert B to distrust the Daynes (for a number of reasons; i.e. Arthur Dayne Rhaegar's bestie, ect). It has me wondering if that was part of the infamous "Jon Arryn deal" that he cut with Dorn after the rebellion was won by Robert. Having the heir to Starfall in the Stormlands should keep the Daynes in line. It would be interesting to go back and try to find out if there are any other heirs from the Dornish high lords that are being held as captives right after the war ended. I have always wondered what Jon Arryn did/said that made the Dornish lay down their spears. It's not like Dornish history is not littered with examples of them surviving as underdogs in war. Maybe it was simply forcing Dorn to give up high value political hostages.
  3. I like the idea of "second lifing" dragons through human sacrifice as the way that the Valyrians tamed dragons. I also like the way that you presented these ideas. By this logic, which dragon is Dany? She obviously sacrificed herself as well in the pyre, wouldn't she then also second life one of the dragons? Or is it a third party sacrifice type of deal? Like I sacrifice myself to second - life a dragon so that one of my heirs will ride the dragon that I become?
  4. LmL, great essays! Thanks for the interesting reads! The one HUGE event that I do not see discussed in your theories is the Valyrian Doom. (Unless I missed it, which is highly possible) Do you think the Doom was caused by the Greenseers magic of Westeros..?? Just curious on how/where the Valyrian Doom fits in with your timeline with the comet entering the moon causing the LN?
  5. Most moral: Ned protecting Jon Snow's identity to not only save Jon from Robert, but also to keep peace within the Realm. Without Rhaegar's heir to rally around, most of the loyalists bent the knee once the Mad King was killed. Least moral: The treatment of fArya by Ramsay. Just brutal.
  6. I agree with all of the posters ideas. There are certainly many complex relationships between the characters in these books. I would like to add the Ned - Cat - Jon relationship in Winterfell as one of the more complex relationships in the story.
  7. I've always viewed the Long Night / Others similar to a "cleansing of the world" if you will. Kinda like Noah's ark/flood story. TWoIaF gave clues that there could have been more than one Long Night by introducing the dragon bones found on Westeros that are pre-Targ and possibly pre-Long Night. I have some fragmented ideas about how the Others (ice) cleanse Westeros & Dragons/Fire (Doom) cleanse Essos when civilization needs to be reset, or something along those lines. (leaving it at that) So I would say that the coming of the Long Night and the Others are the world's natural cycle of survival, and that makes the Others necessary and justified.
  8. It would be cool to see some of these characters join the NW cause. I think that humans will need as much magic and sorcery during the Battle for Dawn as they can muster in order to combat the Others. Magic Spells seem to be effective against them. Qyburn Howland Reed Thoros of Myr Damphair Marwyn the Mage Lord Hightower Benerro Bran Stark
  9. Some really good ideas and thoughts! Thanks to all! Tatters is one of my favorite mysteries of the Essos plot. I like the idea that Tyrion is the driving force for a potential attack on Pentos. I'm not sure that I agree that that's where the second Dance will kick off, but I'm ok with it if that is how it ends up going down. Which brings up the questions: Are the GC in the employ of Illyrio (which I believe) or JC/Aegon? And, if Illyrio is who the person that has the contract with them, would he (Illyrio) abandon his plan for Aegon and re-call the GC if Pentos does come under attack and/or he becomes threatened? And, would the GC honor that call if they are already settled in Westeros after the journeys and battles it took to get there?
  10. Crazy idea: The stillborn babies that Targs keep having with leathery wings and/or tails are the Harpies trying to make an evolutionary come back after being wiped out during the Long Night.
  11. I agree. I think Tattered Prince will be Illyrio's foil as well. I have a theory that Illyrio may have had something to do with Tatters leaving Pentos in the first place and that he and Illyrio have un-finished business. It might even be that they do not know each other and that Fatman randomly gets caught in Tatters revenge plot on Pentos. But, I don't think Tatters is someone from Westeros in hiding. I think he is legit from Pentos.
  12. That is interesting. Is that stated in the books somewhere? If so, then one of my pet theories is dead on a vine.
  13. The more I think about this, the more it kind of works, of course with the help of speculation and glamour magic. It would clear up why JC is so certain that Aegon is the real deal. It would explain Illyrio's interest in Westeros. It would make way more sense that if Illyrio has a fake ID, that he would be a person most book readers would know, as opposed to some off - brand Blackfyre that no one has ever heard of. Aegon would then be one of the 3 dragon heads. It also got me thinking about the Tattered Prince asking for Pentos being returned to him. If Illyrio is Rheagar, then he probably usurped Pentos from whoever the TP is, which would clear up that bit of mystery. Of course, there is NO evidence that this is true. But it could definitely work without much force.
  14. Sounds a lot like a HARPY!
  15. I am curious, what do you, or anyone, take Barry saying that Valyrian dragons were bred for battle to mean? I was fascinated when I read the World Book about all of the ancient beasts and animals that were either rumored, or proven to have lived in Planetos. Specifically, the ones that resemble dragons. It made the tinfoil begin to spark. I agree that the evidence put forth in aWoIaF that dragons came to the Oldtown / Hightower area prior to the Long Night, thus before the rise of the Freehold, seems pretty straight forward. I am 100% on board with that. I imagine that dragons (and other animals, ie wolves/direwolves) have evolved over the "thousands of years" that Planetos has existed. It has definitely happened in our real world, so why would GRRM's world be different? I mentioned Harpys and the flying wyverns of Sothoryos in my last post. I do not believe that dragons were always "WMDs". They could have been more like K9s to humans in a way - they can hurt us if we mistreat them, but they are mostly loyal and obedient animals. I even subscribe that humans and dragons began to share DNA somehow at some point (magic? breeding with them?) throughout the millenia (hello Harpys & and still born babies with leathery wings and tails!). This could have made the dragons more and more aggressive over time, like their human counterparts. But, before that part of the dragon evolution would have happened - again, this is Pre-LN - the text makes it seem that dragons were used as "builders" and transportation vehicles. They were possibly used to build the 5 Forts and the Hightower base and other structures that still stand as evidence. Then, BOOM! The Long Night hits the world like a Mike Tyson right hook! Humans, dragons and other living things are almost completely wiped out. When the lights come back on, this knowledge of "dragon-building" is all forgotten and the world basically starts over from scratch. A thousand years or so later, Valyrians re-discover dragons and "bred them for battle". Much in the same ways that elephants are sometimes used for war - but were not necessarily created for war. This is what a spark in the tin foil does.