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About faroresdragn

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  1. war with the other Quartheen? I do remember that the quartheen are very polite. Something about how milk men was an appropriate name for them because they were weak or something like that. So the little girl has three dragons who will one day grow up to be terrible unstoppable death machines. But right now she has no army, no lands, virtually no followers, and her dragons are small and weak like she is. Shes basically an egg waiting to hatch into the most dangerous threat on earth, but they let her keep her dragons, when they could easily take them away, essentially because she has dibs on them. And the politeness and unwillingness to start a war kind of falls flat when you consider the fact that the thing he wants is a dragon. and Jorah even says he wanted the dragon "to rule quarth forever" or something like that. based on what dragons are good for, that implies he wants to use it to rule by force, seeing as he doesnt need more money, and dragons arent very good diplomats. So he obviously doesnt have a problem torching Quarth with dragonfire one day for power. I mean dragons arent good for anything but destruction as far as we know, so what else could he want it for? and if its obvious to Jorah (who is stragnely well versed in all world languages and cultures yet still an outsider), then his intentions would be blatantly clear to the other quartheen. And if it was obvious that he got the dragon to one day rule them with an iron fist, i doubt that something like obtaining it legitimately through a marriage tradition would stop them from taking his dragon while they can.
  2. I just want to say that I hated all of Daenerys' parts in this book (except maybe the part with the palace of dust, which was pretty cool). She spends it all in quarth just over and over saying "God no one really likes me, they only like me for my dragons, please give me ships, please give me ships, no i wont marry you" etc etc. So that aspect was boring, but the even more annoying thing was the fact that I dont understand how Xaro (or anyone really) could be so dumb. Xaro is constantly asking Dany to marry him, even though he's the character who is more explicitly pointed out to be gay than any other, and we find out that it is because in Quartheen tradition, when two people get married they ask eachother for one thing, and if that thing is in that persons power to grant, they have to give it, no matter what it is. Xaro wants one of Danys dragons. at first hes trying to convince her he loves her because he assumes she doesnt know about the rule, but later he directly asks for one of her dragons in exchange for something, and she refuses that, and thats when hes done with her and tells her to get the hell out. Heres the thing though: why doesnt he just take the damn dragon? Hell, why doesnt he take all three? 1. Its not like were talking about Balerion the Dread here. These dragons are cat sized at best, can barely fly if at all, and cant even breathe fire yet. grab them and stuff them in a cage and theyre yours. 2. Daenerys is a little girl. yes, shes a queen, and a khaleesi, and the mother of dragons, but shes fourteen. If xaro wanted to take the dragon from her by force, what is she gonna do? yes, she has mormont, her 3 blood riders, and her khalaser, but that brings me to my third point: 3. Xaro is rich as hell. Not only do we see and hear about how vastly wealthy he is like a hundred times, but lets think of this logically. he is a member of the thirteen. Now, honestlyu, I dont think the book ever actually states that "the thirteen" actually consists of only thirteen people, but if it doesnt, its pretty safe to assume so. There are 3 main merchant groups in quarth, which is one of the richest trading ports in the world, and the thirteen are one. now assuming that the other two groups have much more than 13 people, and all three groups have around the same level of influence, that means the thirteen have to be the richest people in the city, and some of the richest people in the world, since all that money is consolidated into just thirteen people. Long story short, the dude has to have Bruce Wayne level resources to draw on. so these 100 people, only 4 of which are confirmed to be decent warriors, would be a laughable thing for him to get rid of. He wipes his ass with the amount of gold it would take to hire enough sellswords to massacre them all. So why does he resort to legal loopholes and trickery to try and bamboozle this little girl out of the one dragon, when he could take all 3 without even trying? it makes no sense. "oh crap she wouldnt give it to me peacefully. guess theres no way I can get it now." One half of the book is dedicated to Tyrions plots in Kings Landing, and how hes buying people left and right, and making people double agents with the power of his gold, and showing just about anyone can be bought. I dont know if Xaro has as much money as all of Casterly Rock, but he has enough. and hes in the thirteen, so hes supposed to be a shrewd businessman. Are you telling me he got all that wealth without ever leveraging it to get some treasures by force? or spill a little blood? because if a dragon is not enough to inspire him to resort to violence, then what could? The full stupidity of this hit me in her last chapter, when she goes out to the docks. At this point Xaro is already mad at her, and is telling her she needs to get away and leave his place. Dany mentions she left one of her blood riders to guard her dragons and her people. ONE. I mean shes probably done this multiple times. she never seems to take more than one dragon with her at a time, so shes constantly been leaving 2 dragons IN HIS HOUSE, guarded by one guy for months now. he has to be touched in the head not to steal them.
  3. OP is correct, that is the best chapter in the book. I have never felt those kind of emotions from a book before. it wasnt just that chapter but it was the buildup to the chapter. Theon says hes not going to show mercy, then The message tyrion shows to Cersei about bran and rickon where he says "arent you happy? you wished them dead didnt you?" or something like that. At this point I was still clinging to hope, as bran is one of my favorite characters, "ok, shes happy because she wanted them dead, doesnt mean theyre dead now nessesarily, maybe something bad just happened to them." Then Catelyn literally says "I have no sons but Robb" and after that you cant assume anything else. Then after pussyfooting around it they go on to mention how their heads were on pikes and they didnt even let them bury their bones in the stark crypt, and my soul is basically black at this point, Then at the end of the chapter theon reveals they were the millers boys...good god. Then you have one of those moments where everything falls into place and makes sense: how jojens vision about the faces is still true, why theon would force the maester and everyone else to come with him after bran but then suddenly insist that they return to winterfell before they go to the boys, why Reek had brans clothes in his bag, etc. and those moments are the best moments in this series in my opinion. All the character for Theon was good too, but the reveal gave me chills.
  4. I like Bran. I like his dealing with being a cripple, which is a 1000x worse thing to be in their world than in ours, but mostly because in Brans chapters we can see the world from the eyes of a direwolf, which is awesome. I dont know what it is, but in any book I read, If I get explainations of human things from the POV of an animal, i just love it. One of the reasons I was big on Warriors as a kid. I also liked arya and hated sansas chapters for the same reasons. They are both weak little girls (even if Arya is a badass swordfighter in training), but where Arya does what she needs to do, reading sansas chapters just gave me the feeling of "this is what the world looks like from the eyes of a whiny bitch who cant do a damn thing for herself and cries and almost burned the castle down when she had her period." seriously though, it is interesting how Arya has that bit of Ned in her, but is also getting screwed up by the world shes in. like when she risks her life to get that axe and give those prisoners, who were literally nothing more than monsters in her eyes, a chance to escape, which is totally what Ned would have done in that situation (assuming he was a little kid who couldnt help kick ass). She also risks her life to rescue Gendry from the Lannisters, and refuses to leave Weasle behind. But then when Jaquen says "hey ill kill any three people you want just name them." she says "sweet cant wait to kill some bitches thisll be fun". so her point of view is interesting for that too.
  5. Yeah but that doesnt explain how there arent alot of other Starks scattered throughout the North outside Ned's family. I mean 8000 years is around 320 generations, maybe more, since the average childbearing age in Westeros is probably alot younger than it is IRL, especially for lords who know who theyre going to marry pretty quick. So there have been ~330 Stark Lords. Very rough estimation taking alot of assumptions into account. but in all that time, you dont think a lord would have a second son who wouldnt inherit the lordship, but would get married and have sons, who would then have sons, etc., etc? I mean imagine how many starks there would be if Brandon the Builder had 2 sons, and every other Lord Stark only had one son. That would still be hundreds if not thousands of stark men by the time 8000 years go by. maybe more than that. Again, this is making alot of assumptions, like assuming westeros is a much less deadly place than it actually is. And as its seen with the whole main war, it is common practice that when someone dies without an heir, their closest blood relative becomes their heir, which is why Ned is for Stannis. So its not like theyre in a culture where ONLY direct trueborn sons are accepted as heirs. So the idea that there are so few starks is completely absurd. UNLESS there is something fundamental about how medieval families and bloodlines work that I dont know or understand. Like maybe the children of a second son take another name once the first son is lord? But that wouldnt make sense either. Something isnt right. there has to be an explanation. I know I titled the thread about the lannisters, but the real issue im having isnt why there are so many of them, but why there are so FEW of everyone else, especially the starks.
  6. In this series where any character is apt to die, a lot of suspense is caused (at least for me) by the fact that the future of the Stark bloodline which is like 8000 years old, rests on the survival of ned starks 5 kids. Likewise, the entire Arryn line (as far as I know from what I've been told so far) rests on the ONE son Jon arryn had. And Holster Tully's bloodline rests in his one son and his one brother who's childless. With Robert and rely gone, the baratheon line rests with stannis, who has no sons. Most of these big families have bloodlines going back thousands of years (not sure about the tullys, and maybe the baratheons started when the targaryens came, so only like 300 years). But all of them seem like they don't know how to produce sons and/or keep heirs alive. So if the world theyre in is that violent, there's no logical way these families could have survived that long. But that's another issue. The MAIN issue is ALL THE EFFING LANNISTERS. I can count every other families heirs on one hand, but there are so many damn Lannisters I can't even keep track of them. Tywin, tyrion, jaime, cersei, the dumb guy who robb killed in that night raid, the page that cersei is sleeping with who caused Robert to get killed by that boar, a few of lord tywins brothers, and probably a ton of others I have forgotten. Not to mention Joffrey, mycella, and tommen! Tyrion even mentions to himself at one point how the Lannisters are really good at producing children or something like that. Even if this is only done because the Lannisters are made out to be the villains, and this way they outnumber the heros which lends to more tension, HOW are the Lannisters apparently the only family in Westeros that seem to understand how to/be competent at maintaining a bloodline, in a continent who's entire social structure is built around maintaining bloodlines? Like I get that neds brothers joined the watch and were murdered, and his sister also murdered I guess, but was father Rickard an only child? Why does ned stark have no uncles or cousins who would also be starks aND be able to take winterfell if neds sons should die off? The starks are 8000 years old! You're telling me there are NO starks living who aren't of the DIRECT line of succession? Apparently the karstarks are all decended from a real stark in the past right? So if that one stark's kids eventually grew into an entire family, how, after 8000 years, are neds kids literally the only remaining starks in the world? It seems to be completEly illogical unless I'm missing something.
  7. Thanks for the very thorough answers. All of this is coming back to me now. I thought for sure that Cersei had Ned killed before that message could be sent. Didnt Ned give that message to one of his guard telling him to hand it directly to Stannis himself, but then that guard was killed before he could leave KL? I was under the impression that Stannis was the original guy who suspected that Joffrey wasnt legitimate (other than Tyrion), and he was the one who told shared his suspicions with Jon Arryn, and he hightailed it to Dragonstone after Jon Arryn was iced to save his own tail. I think the story was that no one loved stannis, not even Robert, so he wanted someone who Robert actually loved, like Jon Arryn, to give him the news so hed actually listen.
  8. I took too long after reading AGOT to start reading ACOK, and I cant keep track of how these armies are moving around in the North. BTW, I just finished the chapter where Ser Davos sails the red woman below the wall at Storm's End and she gives birth to that weird shadow baby, so no spoilers past that if you can. So I thought that I remembered reading that Robb brought like 10000 men from the North. When they got to the Twins, Robb sent like half his force south in the night to attack Twins force in like a suicide mission to fool him into thinking it was their main force or something, while Robb crossed the Twins with the rest of his soldiers to help Riverrun fight Jaime Lannister. Tehn Robb went to some place near the Golden Tooth and won a victory in the night. Then when Catelyn comes back to Riverrun after the thing with Renly, Edmure talks about being able to take on Tywin Lannister by calling on Roose Bolton with his TEN THOUSAND MEN. The last I heard, all of Robbs men who went south from the Twins got slaughtered by the Lannisters, exept for a few that they took prisoner, and Robb left a few guys at the Twins to hold the crossing. Now all of a sudden some guy named Roose Bolton has ten thousand men just sitting around at the Twins with nothing to do? Did Robb take ALOT more people from the north than I thought he did? Cause I could have sworn he only took like 10000 total. And 10000 seems like an excessive amount to leave just to hold the crossing, since it sounded like with those additional 10000, Edmure would be able to be somewhat matched or be able to overpower the Lannister army. So if Robb had that many people originally, why would be leave so many behind when he went for Riverrun? And Why not call them immediately after Tywin went to Harrenhal, and obviously had no more interest in the crossing? So how many men do the Starks and the lannisters have, and where are they at? And how many people did Robb originally bring south? And where did Roose Bolton get 10000 men?
  9. So I just finished the chapter where Ser Davos sails the red woman under the wall of Storm's End, and she gives birth to that weird shadow baby. I dont know why youd have to go that far into the book to answer my question but no spoilers please. So I waited a little too long after finishing AGOT before startin ACOK so things are a little fuzzy, and I dont want to reread the whole first book just to get this. I cannot for the life of me remember what actually inspired the starks and lannisters to go to war. Obviously, I know that Catelyn held Tyrion prisoner at the Eyrie for a while, and that Joffrey did Ned Stark really dirty, but is that the entire reason for their war? It seems like that's not enough. My brain keeps trying to convince me that it has something to do with joffrey not being roberts true heir, but I know it cant be that because Ned never actually got to tell anyone that before he was killed. By the end of book one, the only people who actually know about Cersei and Jamie are the two themselves, Tyrion, Varys, Littlefinger, and Grand Maester Pycell. so that cant be a motivation for either side. The most obvious reason that comes to mind for the Starks wanting to go to war would be to avenge the murder of Ned, since they all know theres no way he could actually be guilty of treason. Which if it was would be pretty weak. I know that Ned was a good guy - the best guy - and we as the readers know that his death was unjust, but they didnt know that for sure, so the entire force of the north would be marching to war on the principle that ned stark was probably innocent. The other problem with that is that I think the timing didnt match up anyway. I know that news of ned starks death reached winterfell right after bran and rickon had that prophetic dream about it, and when the raven came, the bran was the first one the maester told about it, so Im pretty sure that at that point, Robb had already gone south. so that couldnt have been his motivation. Without Neds death, I cant think of anything the southerners did that would force Robb to call his banners. Unless he called them just because they had his father prisoner? Or maybe because Jaime killed Ned's personal guard? I guess I could see that if they murdered his whole guard and improsoned the head Stark that that could be enough to inspire them to call the banners, but I have the feeling Im forgetting something. And I also dont know why the Lannisters are doing what theyre doing. Its pretty clear that Tywin isnt listening to anything Cersei or Joffrey are saying, so that mean that his entire motivation to call the entire Lannister host to war is because catelyn held tyrion prisoner for a few days, gave him a fair trail for a crime she thought he committed, and when he proved hiumself innocent, let him go without harming him? Oh shit, better call the banners, start killing Riverrun, and set the entire f***ing riverland on fire. Seems like kind of an overreaction. Maybe that is the whole reason? Tywin is an overly proud man right? but what the hell did riverrun do to deserve getting attacked and burned? "oh a stark held my so captive in the vale of arryn? better kill the Tullys!" I cant believe that he sent them all to attack riverrun just to get revenge on catlyns family for what she did. And again, If I rememeber right, the lannisters started raping the riverlands way before the starks did anything, Because Ned stark sent out that group to stop Gregor from raping the riverlands while he was still alive and unimprisoned. So what do the Lannisters have against the Tullys? None of it makes sense to me. Could anyone refresh me?