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About Lollygag

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  1. Gotcha. Maybe keep in mind though that if a lot of people start doing this it will make the forum difficult to navigate and will stifle discussion. Maybe brainstorm some ideas as to why even though they're a bit crazy just to give folks something to bounce off of? Maybe go with a more general topic about Robert's time in the north and bring up bastards then? Balon's rebellion would be a good place to start. Theon has black hair...
  2. I’m going to assume that since you didn’t put a proper topic in the title that this is an open question for anything which surprises us. I’m surprised that… In retrospect, the Rains (Reynes) of Castamere have a much larger presence in the books on reread There’s a lot of Stark imagery around Aegon but I can’t go Aegon is a secret Stark (yet) The number of families about which we know virtually know very little yet seem potentially quite important to the story: Blackwoods, Royces, Mormonts, Daynes, Tyrells, Reeds, Whents/Harrenhal families... On reread, I’ve noticed that even though we’re in the character’s heads during their POV, that we often have to rely on context to really tell us what the character is thinking and feeling. Even then, it’s still often hard to tell especially with some characters. Brandon Stark bastards haven’t shown up yet. Being inside Cersei’s head is so different than how other characters perceive her. That there are so many Ironborn POVs (not complaining)
  3. May I suggest a thread solving all of ASOIAF's political and magical mysteries using Occam's Razor? Or you could use another favorite of mine - "oh, it's probably nothing".
  4. If I had to guess, I'd say Robert is LF's, but in real life, blonde + bright red can produce light brown and blonde + dark red/auburn can produce light to dark brown. Hair color isn't proof here, it just adds to the other more persuasive evidence.
  5. The bolded contradicts The World of Ice and Fire which says that the Lannister's origins go back to Lann the Clever and they did marry in with Andals. That was when the golden-haired rogue called Lann the Clever appeared from out of the east. Some say he was an Andal adventurer from across the narrow sea, though this was millennia before the coming of the Andals to Westeros. Regardless of his origins, the tales agree that somehow Lann the Clever winkled the Casterlys out of their Rock and took it for his own. ... The list is long, and many are the legends, for there is scarce a noble house in all the Reach that does not boast of descent from one of Garth Greenhand's countless children. Even the heroes of other lands and kingdoms are sometimes numbered amongst the offspring of the Greenhand. Brandon the Builder was descended from Garth by way of Brandon of the Bloody Blade, these tales would have us believe, whilst Lann the Clever was a bastard born to Florys the Fox in some tales or Rowan Gold-Tree in others. However, Lann the Clever's descent from Garth Greenhand is a tale told in the Reach. In the westerlands, it is more oft said that Lann cozened Garth Greenhand himself by posing as one of his sons (Garth had so many that ofttimes he grew confused), thus making off with part of the inheritance that rightly belonged to Garth's true children. ... Lann the Clever never called himself a king, as best we know, though some tales told centuries later have conferred that styling on him posthumously. The first true Lannister king we know of is Loreon Lannister, also known as Loreon the Lion (a number of Lannisters through the centuries have been dubbed "the Lion" or "the Golden," for understandable reasons), who made the Reynes of Castamere his vassals by wedding a daughter of that house, and defeated the Hooded King, Morgon Banefort, and his thralls in a war that lasted twenty years. Loreon might have been the first Lannister to style himself King of the Rock, but it was a title his sons and grandsons and their successors continued to bear for thousands of years. However, the boundaries of their kingdom did not reach their full scope until the arrival of the Andal invaders. The Andals came late to the westerlands, long after they had taken the Vale and toppled the kingdoms of the First Men in the riverlands. The first Andal warlord to march an army through the hills met a bloody end at the hands of King Tybolt Lannister (called, unsurprisingly, the Thunderbolt). The second and third attacks were dealt with likewise, but as more and more Andals began moving west in bands large and small, King Tyrion III and his son Gerold II saw their doom ahead. Rather than attempting to throw back the invaders, these sage kings arranged marriages for the more powerful of the Andal war chiefs with the daughters of the great houses of the west. Cautious men, and well aware of what had happened in the Vale, they took care to demand a price for this largesse; the sons and daughters of the Andal lords so ennobled were taken as wards and fosterlings, to serve as squires and pages and cupbearers in Casterly Rock...and as hostages, should their fathers prove treacherous.
  6. I completely agree especially when Occam’s Razor is elevated as “evidence” for a view. This is rapidly becoming a pet peeve for me. Definition by Merriam Webster: : a scientific and philosophical rule that entities should not be multiplied unnecessarily which is interpreted as requiring that the simplest of competing theories be preferred to the more complex or that explanations of unknown phenomena be sought first in terms of known quantities Occam’s Razor is meant to be applied to very specific things and neither general human psychology (typically extremely complicated) nor fiction are options. And a series which started out as a trilogy and has ballooned into possibly 8 books and lots of other stuff besides is absolutely not being written with Occam’s Razor in mind. Also, for all of the hype about the fantasy elements of the series, the books are structured more like a mystery, a mystery about secret and convoluted political and magical plots. You don’t write a good or compelling mystery by employing the “simplest of competing theories”. GRRM loves multiplying entities.
  7. Stairs and steps are liminal places when you think about it. They’re neither here nor there and never the point of the journey. I’m wondering if the steps are perhaps not as important as what’s at the top of the stairs and what’s at the bottom of the stairs and who is making the journey? Perhaps they aren’t significant in themselves so much as the places they’re connecting? I've been thinking about Tyrion's and Jaime's dreams. At the time of Tyrion's dream, he wanted to be down in the dumps. He was drinking, depressed, etc and seemed to want to keep things that way so as Tyrion dreams the Shrouded Lord and Tywin are one, perhaps it's about Tyrion wishing to avoid responsibility? Jaime however had emerged from Riverrun a new man even cutting off his Lannister hair. He wanted to be his own person for the first time, yet was being drug down. ADWD Tyrion VI He dreamt of his lord father and the Shrouded Lord. He dreamt that they were one and the same, and when his father wrapped stone arms around him and bent to give him his grey kiss, he woke with his mouth dry and rusty with the taste of blood and his heart hammering in his chest. I did notice that a lot of characters referenced above are liminal types in a way. Arya, Jon, Sam, Sansa, Theon are all bastards of a sort. Tyrion says all dwarfs are bastards in their father's eyes. Jaime will be disinherited by Tywin though there are other bastardizing symbols around him (losing his legendary sword hand which also connected him to Cersei in grabbing her heel when they were born, cutting of his hair) before this point. This seems connected to Tyrion descending the spiraling steps of the Winterfell library, Septon Chayle’s descent into a well and of course the Nightfort well. To the bolded, Arya holds her breath. AGOT Arya III From somewhere far below her, she heard noises. The scrape of boots, the distant sound of voices. A flickering light brushed the wall ever so faintly, and she saw that she stood at the top of a great black well, a shaft twenty feet across plunging deep into the earth. Huge stones had been set into the curving walls as steps, circling down and down, dark as the steps to hell that Old Nan used to tell them of. And something was coming up out of the darkness, out of the bowels of the earth … Arya peered over the edge and felt the cold black breath on her face. Far below, she saw the light of a single torch, small as the flame of a candle. Two men, she made out. Their shadows writhed against the sides of the well, tall as giants. She could hear their voices, echoing up the shaft. … The other chuckled. "No less." Flames licked at the cold air. The tall shadows were almost on top of her. An instant later the man holding the torch climbed into her sight, his companion beside him. Arya crept back away from the well, dropped to her stomach, and flattened herself against the wall. She held her breath as the men reached the top of the steps.
  8. I've seen enough families where most kids look like one parent and absolutely nothing at all like the other parent for this to be believable. It's also extremely common (in my family at least) for a kid to look more like an aunt or uncle or grandparent (or even a great aunt or great uncle or great grandparent) than either parent. Jon looking just like Ned and absolutely nothing like Rhaegar meshes well with what I've empirically observed.
  9. I have seen this.
  10. Completely agree. I've seen a lot of Punnet square genetics touted on this forum which doesn't even stand up to empirical observation that we see on the street everyday. It's a lot more complex than we learned in Bio 101. And furthermore, it's yet another example of the forum community assuming GRRM is omniscient and neglecting to ask: (1) Is it plausible that GRRM has learned this in school? (No due to his age and the state of genetics) and (2) Would he even want to learn genetics? (Highly doubtful given his other interests) and (3) Even if the answer is yes to (1) and (2), would it be applicable to ASOIAF? (No as it's a fantasy series and you can't have Maury Povich just meander up one day and make genetics plot-relevant.
  11. I don't disagree but the culture nowadays is to give an opinion on anything and everything. Ideally people wouldn't post unless they had something interesting to say, but that's not going to happen. If making it acceptable for people to just dislike a character without the need to provide an interesting explanation or "evidence" where there is none to be found (in the case of a subconsciously-formed opinion) ends some of the wtf statements I've seen lately on other threads, then I'm ok with that. At least it would be honest rather than shoe-horned in. Also, a lot of people don't know just where their opinion comes from or it comes from a number of places and that's another challenge entirely.
  12. Is Robert's hair light, medium or dark brown? I have a lot of natural blondes and redheads in my family and in the area where I grew up as well. They can have light/medium brown-haired children but I've not seen any with dark brown hair.
  13. I agree that stating like or dislike full stop is awful for discussion but folks will continue to state their opinions regardless. But I'd still rather people just state that they like/don't like a character for personal reasons rather than contort themselves seeking evidence (validation) from the text.
  14. I'm not following.. this statement seems to contradict your next sentence?
  15. And that character X will end up exactly like their historical counterpart Y because instead of history inspiring parts of ASOIAF, ASOIAF is the enormous and grueling rewrite of rl history with dragons and direwolves just thrown in for funnsies, I guess.