Unchained

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  1. Not sure if this helps, but I saw someone yesterday talking about the Other in the prologue and lightening. Waymar after he is injured, is dripping hot smoky blood then comes up snarling. Then he gets struck by the lightening of the Other's lazy parry. I think in this moment Waymar is made into a black dragon, whose sword is a lightening struck tree. The Other may be a thunder weilding Garth here too making this fight a black dragon vs storm god fight of the Rhaegar vs Robert variety. Of course, the Others do not have a monopoly on Garth people, there are some in the Night's Watch as well. Waymar himself is from the Vale, so in the sense that all NW bros are black blooded and bastard-like, he is Stone which is what dragons are born from perhaps? He is leading a team north of the wall, so he is doing a last hero impression. Maybe he is the dragon person leading the last hero team losing a fight against a garth follower of the dragon NK in the trees before coming back to life. Others and Valyrians are connected REALLY early. Gaunt is the key word. The Other in the prologue is gaunt and hard as old bones, then Viserys is gaunt with hard lines in Dany 1. Later in ACoK, Lord Karstark is gaunt. Of course they have that white winter sun sigil. They are the sons of winter which I guess just means that the NK was indeed a Stark. Old Nan says the direwolves grow gaunt during the Long Night. When Bran is describing the Kings of Winter in the crypts, there are two kinds, bearded shaggy fierce ones and this Other kind Hard, gaunt Other ones. Benjen is described as gaunt, which I think is a clue about something.
  2. Thank you for removing the sliver of doubt I still had about who you were.
  3. It's not 4-1-17, Aprils fools nor 4-20-17, seeweed day. I assumed you were @Illyrio Mo'Parties. Are you really not? I have been wrong plenty before, but c'mon. I you are really not, many apologies. @ravenous reader, My self-deprecating style is only half not serious half the time.;) I do think the mead of poetry is an underrated aspect of the story and is behind shade and Jojen paste. It is knowledge in edible form. You are right I got another name wrong. They are the three singers, and as usual you took it to another level with the Aemon drink. That really seems like it is meant to be a reference to drinking the corpse of the most wise person we see.
  4. Going through all of if you are behind is a bit daunting, but Darry man also has a point. We are not in a hurry. Plenty of time to break it up into pieces and catch up. It is longer than your Illyrio = Rhaegar theory evidence which I honestly enjoyed. I think it was summarized as "This". A small difference of 19,999 words per topic should not be a deal-breaker.
  5. Wasn't me. A few weeks ago is a few weeks before I thought of it. Someone else gets that shoutout. No thoughts on the three sisters? Now they are really on my mind. Damnit ravenous, calling me names I have to google to understand is not good for my fragile ego. I am trying very hard to pretend to be smart on the internet like god intended and you are not making it easy.;) I got excited to talk about the mead of poetry. Definitely something GRRM was thinking about no one has brought up I have seen.
  6. White lichen being a reference to a white werewolf is as high on the list of clever wordplays as any so far. I am inclined to believe it is an intentional reference to Jon because the wild roses bring to mind Lyanna and @ravenous reader pointing out that is in in the yard Lady is buried in. The intersection of Odin myth and lycanthropy myth is of course the berserkers. They wear animal skins or fight bare-chested trusting Odin to protect them in battle. They thought they were immune to edged weapons and fire because Odin would use his rune powers mentioned in the Havamal. A ton of people have picked up on the fact that Jon seems to be one with his occasional sudden outbursts of rage and strength, but I am recently seeing them everywhere. I just learned that Kings guard and Queens guard are the actual names of those red coat wearing soldiers in London that protect Buckingham palace. I am probably the last person on the forums to learn this, but there is more to it. Those tall hats they wear are bearskin, and some people think it is part of a very old tradition going back to bearskin wearing elite berserker troops that served kings. Not sure if it is true or not, but GRRM is sure using it. Dany's early protectors are all either bears or bare skinned. The three animal associated with them are the bear, wolf, and boar. The night's watch is led by a bear succeeded by a wolf establishing the Night's watch further as the warriors of the greenseers. I see a lot of the duels in the story as involing one or two individuals with berserker symbolism. I also wonder if we are supposed to think of Dany being immune to fire briefly and Jon coming back from being stabbed to berserker's immunity to fire and blades. The rest of the items you list here have me thinking of the three sisters in Highgarden. Do you think they could be showing us the three heads of the dragon falling into the WWnet and combining to an extent? That seems like something that is likely to have happened but only partially. I do not buy the whole, nothing of the man survives after death idea. I have never seen it discussed. I am not sure if this is heresy or a common belief, but since you are timeline altering heretic you may agree. This seems like a time to listen to Syrio and see for ourselves. It looks like we are being told one thing and seeing the exact opposite. If nothing of the man survives shouldn't he think "I took his eagle and felt nothing of him" instead of feeling him strongly? I know Orell has not been dead long here, but Haggon has and he is whispering in Varamyr's ear throughout the whole chapter. The remaining soul may even be symbolized by an ember in the ashes as this chapter starts out with Varamyr's literal fire burning out before he tries to symbolically relight it by stealing Thistle's body and eventually landing in a wolf. @ravenous reader, Odin does not gain poetry when he hangs from the world tree to learns runes. He becomes a scholar and a poet when he steals the mead of poetry. That is a story dripping with ASoIaF I have never seen mentioned. Odin uses trickery to sneak into a hole in a mountain before seducing the Giant's daughter, whose job it is to guard the mead, like Lann the clever. The mead itself is a great fire of the god's symbol that is stolen. It is made of honey and the blood of a god who has all the knowledge to answer any question. It appears to be the inspiration of Jojen paste. The first thing Bran mentions that it does taste like is honey. There are at least two versions of the story, this is a translation from the havamal version... Gunnlod sat me in the golden seat, Poured me precious mead: Ill reward she had from me for that, For her proud and passionate heart, Her brooding foreboding spirit. What I won from her I have well used: I have waxed in wisdom since I came back, bringing to Asgard Odhroerir, the sacred draught. Hardly would I have come home alive From the garth of the grim troll, Had Gunnlod not helped me, the good woman, Who wrapped her arms around me. In this version the Giant's daugther helped Odin steal the fire of the god's after being seduced, then helped him escape a Garth, and Odin refers to her as the good woman who wrapped her arms around her like Durran being protected by Elenei. 5 years ago this could have been a really useful find. All I learned that I can use at this moment is that a garth is not just a wooden fish trap/dam. It is usually an open yard or room surrounded by cloisters as in a religious structure. In this sense the godswoods could all be garths.
  7. Another great essay, I was taken by how much ember in the ash symbolism there really is. Just because that's how fires work you see them together all over, but that their is meaning is that many is surprising. I need a day or two to think before I can take a crack at contributing much, but my first thought was of your identifying the scene where Jon and the NW bros surround the camp in the grove as meteors entering the trees or the comet entering the moon. Three other things that look similar to me are the prologue with the Others surrounding and closing in on Jon-lookalike Waymar with swords, the scene where Jon tries to desert and his brothers surround him and capture him with the magic, binding words of the NW oath, and the kingsguard sigil with the white swords around a black crown. All seem to be showing the celestial and/or terrestrial capturing the fire of the gods. Also, thanks for the shoutout.
  8. What is Ghost?

    I for one do not find that to my liking, but I see that as a great find and have already come to believe that Ghost will probly have to die for Jon's soul to return to his body. Unfortunately, Jon seems to be Mithras with Ghost as his white sacrificial white bull that brings fertility back to the world.
  9. The Duality of Fire in Mythology

    Yea they may be supposed to show us what out of control winter forces look like just like Valyria was out of control summer. They come in the winter to steal your food you grew all summer. They are like watery more northern Valyrians without dragons (for the moment) in some ways. Before the Andals came they seem to have been pretty terrifying. Their singular seafaring ability made them almost as untouchable in a boat as a dragon-rider in the air and they seem to have had better weapons than the bronze ones the first men fought with. 'Dragons plant no trees' sounds a lot like 'We do not sow'. The Grey King may have taken his death relation too far or something and contributed to the unnatural winter we call the LN.
  10. The Duality of Fire in Mythology

    Don't feed them or they will just keep coming back for more. Anyway, I am on board with your green fire = uncontrolled fire idea. Cersei is a great example. However, in ASoIaF I see green fire's foil being a grey, white, aging, winter sun rather than the red one from alchemy. I may be wrong, but that is what I see GRRM using. He is all about the seasons. The green summer king is supposed to be succeeded by the Grey winter one, just like King Robert dying in his hunting greens after a long summer is supposed to be followed by grey eyed Ned. However, we are being shown a corrupted version of the seasons. Jaime does eventually go against his sister, but by then he seems to be doing a white winter sun symbolism thing with his dressing like a kingsguard. Just my opinion. Maybe we should read it as out of control summer green fire Cersei trying to make summer last too long and that antagonizes winter in the form of Robb. The long night could be summers fault in fact that is what @Crowfood's Daughter has said. Garth threw the flaming comet spear for some reason.
  11. Recurring phrasings in the books

    YES!!, both Odin and Loki are gender-bending tricksters as pointed out in that weird argument Loki has with the gods. I think this is the root of the abomination of mating with wolf as wolf which Six-skins does as the female wolf. Dany and Jon are both gender benders in their first relationships at different times. We are being shown two different greenseers who will do anything for power/knowledge I think. Jon combined with Bran is the black, weirwood paste eating, last hero in the white weirwood of westros. Dany (combined with Euron?) is the shade drinking white in the black tree is essos. @Darry Man pointed out that ebony wood comes from trees in the family of the persimmon tree, so the persimmon tree in her garden in Mereen is like a godswood with a warlock tree in it. I would like to point out that Dany seems to sacrifice her brother, spouse, and unborn son to birth three dragons and her fellow shade drinker Euron has his brother, salt wife, and unborn child strapped to the prow, or mouth as @Pain killer Jane would say, of his ship as an apparent sacrifice. Dany is both the AE and the BSE depending on the moment just like Jon. I am not an expert on tentacle porn so I will take your word on that, but I did watch the beast with a billion backs futurama episode today where an octopus from another dimension connects everyone in a hive mind.
  12. The Duality of Fire in Mythology

    I doubt my opinion matters, but the author disagrees with you. So many readers were reading the books with so much attention that they were throwing up some theories and while some of those theories were amusing bulls—and creative, some of the theories are right. At least one or two readers had put together the extremely subtle and obscure clues that I’d planted in the books and came to the right solution. (George R. R. Martin, Vanity Fair Interview, 2014) Its not too late. Plenty of mysteries left. You can be one of those readers, who find the extremely subtle clues. If you like the books enough to join the forums, there is a good chance you can contribute if interested.
  13. The Duality of Fire in Mythology

    This is captured well in Varys' quote about power being a shadow on the wall. Who really killed Ned (Baldur/the moon), was it Joffrey (the sun), the king's justice (the comet), or Littlefinger (Loki). Hodor's name tags him as another fool manipulated by a greenseer trickster. I have not not seen the comparison you make between the Maiden made of light and the Lion of night to the Japanese sun and moon gods before that I can remember. I just looked them up. The sun goddesses seem like good fits, she even hides in a cave after a fight with a storm god, removing the sun from the sky for a time. I saw something about her being brought out of the cave some ritual dance. Do you know what that is about. I have not seen anything connecting the moon god to the lion of night, am I missing something. Whether AA was tricked or is the trickster, the answer is probably both. He was most likely a group of people or even worse, may be some sort of blended consciousness once he enters the trees, which could get very messy to untangle. I think we see enough AA character doing the tricking, Tyrion for one is always tricking someone, and being tricked, Joffrey would be an example killing Ned was not in his interest, to deduce that he was both in some way. @BlueTiger has wrote about the long night being based on Ragnorok before, but I can't remember what exactly was said. I think Loki slipping his bonds will be similar to something escaping the WWnet and blocking out the sun. The world serpent and a giant wolf coming with Loki may be a hint that the original problem individuals were ancestors of dragon people and Starks, so that is who must stop them. You seem to have read a lot of @LmL's essays, so I would also point out that the Grey Kings's theoretical weirwood ship sounds like a reference to the Naglfar, the nail-ship Loki rides. Of course, the Grey King is a bit of a trickster, he gets the storm king to strike the tree and set it on fire with the fire of the gods. There is is a strong brother fighting theme throughout the story. @Crowfood's Daughter writes about it as Grey vs green, but it could also be about two different types of fire. The example you give of the Doom is interesting. I see no reason not to assume that the faceless men caused that. Would that make them some sort of under control secret fire, at least this time? That would match up Arya to Heimdall watcher impersonator Jon. I am finding myself, not for the first time, thinking about Gandalf the Grey servant of the secret fire, who buys his hats from the same place is Odin, fighting the Balrog with his corrupted fire.
  14. Yep, it's not just about credit either the forums are like a computer and the more people go through an essay the more things they will find. I know that my mind was blown with what people found after they read my only OP. It was honestly a lot more than I found before I wrote it. I just wanted to help get something like that going. Those black trees are a mystery that not much progress has been made on. Connecting them to the sea stone chair as was done after you pointed out kraken tentacles are like roots is something, especially since we have shade drunk person running the iron islands now.
  15. @Darry Man, I think in a general way both types of trees have both elements in them. Ice preserves and fire consumes, but both black and white trees do a lot of both giving long life, but sucking away the life from your body at the same time. Like you said weirwoods are burning trees which are landing spots for the fire of the gods. Those white trucks are never called icy that I can recall except when they are actually icy or even armored in ice at times, but that is something in itself. We can suspect the black tree trucks are connected to fire because so many fiery things are burnt and black, but other thing are black as well so is not really enough. Great catch on persimmions being fire of the gods and being connected to black trees. I think you are onto something there. I bet @ravenous reader will like the persimmon and shrimp soup because it sounds so much like starfish soup from under the see. The black clouds silver linings section looks like it may be an extention of the black swords with white hilts like, longclaw, Dany riding Drogon, and the Others controlling the black-handed wights who are often crows in black cloaks. The whole black vs white thing you are talking about here is a hell of an ambitious first thing to tackle when you join the forums. Like you pointed out it is plastered on several doors throughout the books, all of which seem to contain something that it is not. Tobho's doors contain a king's bastard posing as a smith with unknown parentage. THotU contains 'wizards' that appear beautiful and young, but are actually rotten and flamable in a way that reminds of wights. THoBaW contains all manner of face changers. This appears to be connected to the battle of the whispering wood where Robb's face is blacked out, but Jaime, who looks unusually white and Other-like, is easy to identify from far away. Another may be Ned's ToJ dream where his men are faceless 'grey wraiths', but the white clad Kingsguard are clear. I am not sure where to take this information other than a tinfoily theory @LmL dug up involving half the moon hiding its face under black, light drinking debris while the white half that was turned away from the moonsplosion is still clear and easy to see. It is a bit out there however, so there may be another solution. I will find the link if you want it though. If you could just go ahead and figure all this out that would be great. I wrote an OP when I first joined not long ago(which I did not put nearly so much work into as you did here and while I am at it I will tag @Pain killer Jane and @GloubieBoulga because you never know what they will find in this). I shamelessly dropped it in the middle of a thread to get people to read it, just like I did with this one earlier. Worst case, they don't read it. Some may not, but don't be afraid to plug your stuff a little especially if you are new and no one knows to look for it. Just don't do it over and over and you will barely make anyone sick of you.