Unchained

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  1. The Grey King fought Garth the Greenhand

    Honestly, I had a hard time following that, not smart enough. What I managed to gather is that Baal, Saturn/Kronus, and Moloch are all the same basic thing. Moloch was not someone I had ever looked at before, so I googled him. He was a Canaanite god who was fond of child sacrifice (Abraham and Isaac?), and I think he deserves a good look. If the big bad trapped in the trees is based on him, then that would explain the mass sacrifice on the isle of faces, the young of the children, to call down the hammer of the waters. They were sacrificed to Moloch via fire. I found two ways that this was done. First, they could be put in a bronze pair of hands sloping down and roll into the fire pit. Wikipedia says these people would 'die smiling' due to their body curling up in the the heat. We could connect this to Theon, who is always smiling, being a sacrifice for sable cloak (Moloch/Saturn) wearing Ramsay ( @ravenous reader and @GloubieBoulga do you think this could be the origin or at least connected to the slaughter/laughter word play). Second, and most interesting, is that they could be put in a bronze bull and heated. This is of interest for two reasons I have found. Some scholars think that the actual history of this ritual was that of a cleansing ritual rather that a sacrifice and that the participant would survive, and fire as a cleansing element is mentioned in Dany's dreams as well as other places. Also, this brings to mind @LmL's Tyrion Targaryan essay about Sun Wukong being trapped in a vessal that was heated, but surviving and coming out stronger. I want to cannect this to Tyrion in another way. Moloch comes from a base word meaning 'King'. He was worshiped in Carthage, an old enemy of Rome whitch seems to be the inspiration for Ghis, as well as in a city called Tyr. Fun fact, people from Tyr are known as Tyrians. Tyr was an island fortress that became rich after learning how to extract purple dye from a sea snail. The dye was very difficult to get making purple clothing expensive and only belonging to royalty. Tyrosh also began as an island fort and became rich after learning how to extract a deep dark reddish dye from sea snails. There was also a snail found near Braavos that made purple dye. As for heraldry, this all may (big emphasis on may), be about the different symbolism behind different colored roses. White roses are for innocence and purity, blue are for the unattainable and the impossible, red for love and passion, and black for death. The 'War of the Roses', which the Stark/Lannister war was based on, involved this. The Yorks were represented by the white rose, like House Stark's white sigil background. The Lancasters were represented by the red rose, like House Lannister's red sigil background. These would correspond to Argent and Gules in heraldry. The Greyjoys and Targaryans both have sable sigil backgrounds, and the Royces have it in their sigil as well.
  2. @Crowfood's Daughter wrote an essay about that while ago. I don't know if I can do links on my phone, but it turns out there is a guy named Balor in Irish mythology who imprisoned his daughter to keep her from having a baby that would kill him. Of course he did.
  3. That is interesting. Like @Lady Blizzardborn said, yes that is Perseus. I just developed a strong suspicion that Tyrion's escape from King's Landing is meant to show us a twisted version of that story. Both Tyrion and Perseus are stuck in boxes and shipped across the ocean after their birth or symbolic rebirth in this case. When Cersei is brought to the room where Tywin and Shae are lying dead, she sees this. I thought those golden bars may be the golden rain from the greek myth. However, it is a twisted version like everything else in these books. The golden light in on two corpses who represent our reborn dragon hero's parents. When dragons are born, it tends to involve the death of both parents. I think this also may be a clue to those mysterious white swords. The morning light slashing brings to mind Dawn. Just like when you pointed out the white dragon knocking down the fruit from the tree in Dany and Daario's 'garden of Eden' moment, white swords and white with gold dragons are connected to fertility and godly, golden showers in some way. The golden bars on the wall remind of the golden cage Garin is held in when he does his greenseer impersonation calling on the water after his enemy. Maybe we are supposed to think of Tywin dying and going into the WWnet? Sorry for derailing back to the OP, I am personally pretty confident Tyrion is a bastard. He should be a Hill, but maybe he can be a Waters sometimes as well if he was conceived in the Crownlands. Either way he is golden because of his Lannister blood. If we think of him as a Waters and as Perseus here, he is golden water born from a golden rain and sent out on the water.
  4. The Grey King fought Garth the Greenhand

    I have never read the book, I am only passing familiar with it. I just read a summary, and it did remind me of a few aspects of these books, although I am not certain of most and they are all over the map. Nothing concrete jumped out at me as Euron or Ramsay who I was mostly looking for, but there were things that brought them to mind. I will just mention the main one I am relatively sure of about someone else. Dorian's hedonistic life, typical of fertility and storm gods (in fact he is painted as mythical characters), and the painting of him when he is young, that ages instead of him, reminds me a lot of Illyrio with his statue of himself while young. Dorian even learns the lifestyle from a yellow book, which is the color Illyrio and his corruption is most associated with. Also, no I had not put together golden goose connection. Gold tends to represent the sun's energy. So it it that when brothers kill each other, the sun's power is released from a tree? The trapped individuals are fiery, solar, horned lords. I am not sure, but that does seem to be part of the puzzle.
  5. The Grey King fought Garth the Greenhand

    There is certainly a lot to think about here, and you are definitely onto something that could be pretty big. I am not sure what to make of it yet. The whole Uranus-Cronus-Zeus story has a theme of killing your father, then becoming him. Gaia got Cronus to castrate Uranus because he imprisoned some of his children with her inside her. Then Gaia helped hide Zeus to keep him from being consumed and trapped inside Cronus. Then angry at Zeus for his killing of her children, the Giants, she bore Typhon to challenge Zeus. She sometimes bore the Giants in the first place to punish Zeus to his attack of the Titans. So basically, Gaia just wants peace, but all the men kill each other. This seems to be the same theme behind the grey-green struggle. The Grey King killed Garth, but then became grey as a result, meaning he was most likely not grey at the time that he did it. If Garth has tore down the moon and transformed himself into something like Stannis or resurrected Renly when the Grey king killed him, then the Grey King may have been a green person fighting a greyish Garth. Or, it may have been nothing like that, lots of possibilities. However, there is a theme of things like ruling, joining the Nightswatch, or being Lord Cammander of the Kingsguard turning someone grey and aging them. Ruling aged Balon and Robert, his growing a beard is his version of becoming more grey. All of @LmL's green zombie stuff is about green boys who stink of summer becoming greybeards in the Nightswatch. Jaime goes from being a young, strong sun to a weak, crippled white winter one after becoming LC of the KG. However, there are some interesting possible exceptions who wear sable cloaks. Ramsey forces Theon to become corpse-like. Perhaps we should be thinking of Ramsay coming into power at the expense of Theon who serves as the sacrifice. Euron is all about getting his brothers to serve as the sacrifice for his ambitions. He has not aged, but Victarion has grey in his hair. This makes me think of Dorian Gray. He was interested in a hedonistic lifestyle (King Robert) and sold his soul to live forever while his painting aged in his stead.
  6. One of the first things done to victims of crucifixion was to break their legs with a club just like our hero who is merging with a tree. The act was called crurifragium. There were a ton of different wooden structures used over the years in different places including trees. It was also common to impale the victim's private parts. This brings to mind a similar form of execution, that by impaling. I wonder if we look at Vlad the Impaler if we will find anything useful. Some of the stories about him involve taking his meals amongst a forest of people imapled on wooden spikes like bloody trees. Sounds promising in a sick ASoIaF sort of way.
  7. There was a tree at a place I used to live, and if you met your spouse there you were supposed to nail your shoes to it for good luck. I did meet my wife there, but after looking at it, neither of us wanted anything to do with it. Turns out driving hundreds or thousands of nails into a tree is kinda bad for it. It was dead and black with a pile of rotten shoes on and around it. I could definitely see that thing having a demon in it. There is a popular belief that driving copper nails into trees and carving strips into them is an effective way to kill them. Someone carved faces into them and the First Men are strongly associated with Bronze, more evidence they are 'wight trees' and 'ghosts'.
  8. Haven't read the comments yet, maybe it is all figured out, but it is weird. For different reasons to me though. If it is inside the planets orbit it should behave like Venus and always be near the Sun. At sunset, it should be in the west, if we see it at all. I made an ass out of myself once saying it was, but was wrong. How does anything rise out of the east at sunset. I may be missing something simple, I am just confused at the moment. Edit after a minute of thought: the comet is slingshoting around the sun in the opposite direction Venus orbits.
  9. The Grey King fought Garth the Greenhand

    Now, Baelor I was equally studious to Rhaegar, and they both had similar resources, could it be possible that Baelor I also read the same scrolls? GREEK MYTHOLOGY The tale of Danae: King Acrisius prays for a son, but Apollo tells him he will never have a son, but that the son of his daughter will kill him. The only way to fully prevent this prophecy would be to kill his daughter, Danae, but Acrisius fears what the gods would do to him. Instead, he imprisons Danae in a bronze house without a roof and guards her carefully.Arcisius does not expect, that Zeus will come to her and impregnate her. Perseus is born and he sets Danae and Perseus in a box out in the ocean. As a grown man, Perseus enters a discus competition and his discus strikes his grandfather who was unknowingly and coincidentally in the audience fulfilling the prophesy. Remember Daena Targaryen was one of the princesses locked in the maidenvault and eventually became the mother of Daemon Blackfyre. CELTIC MYTHOLOGY Further evidence in the tale of Balor. In this tale, Balor hears a druid's prophecy that he will be killed by his own grandson. To prevent this he imprisons his only daughter in the Tór Mór (great tower) of Tory Island. Mac Cinnfhaelaidh calls on a sídhe (fairy woman) who transports him by magic to Balor's tower, where he seduces Balor's daughter. In time she gives birth to triplets, which Balor gathers up in a sheet and sends to be drowned in a whirlpool. The messenger drowns two of the babies, but unwittingly drops one child into the harbor. The child grows into a man and eventually kills Balor. So you can see, the myths all have something in common, a prophesy, a maiden locked in a tower, the maiden becoming pregnant , and the prophesy coming to fruition. Each myth eludes to the name of either Balor or Danae. In ASOIAF, Baelor locks Daena in a tower, and Daena becomes miraculously pregnant and gives birth to the Blackfyre progenitor. Anyway, I had a long post about that a few years back, all boils down to kinslaying and prophesy. This helped me put together some of what I was thinking about. When I found Celtic Balor and Lugh, I did connect him vaguely to Perseus, but withou the similar names of the trapped women (not Baelor, missed that one too and I will come back to Perseus), but mostly I just saw the similarites between him and Cronus. They are both primordial, prophecy paranoid, anti-farm gods among other similarites. He fits the profile for Grey King types you lay out. He is associated with farming and the order of the seasons, but in the opposite way than someone like Garth. Garth carries a bottomless bag of seeds, Cronus carries a scythe. He is the reaper like Cain. Cronus goes hand and hand with time and its ravages. The greeks called personified time Chronos, which is basically the same. I think the Cronus of this story is the Mad King fighting against Zeus(KIng Bob and Jon Arryn), Hades(Ned), and Poseidon(Stannis). The thing I found that sealed it is very much like what you wrote about, I compared their wives names (Rhea & Rhaella). If nothing else we are figuring out those alien Valyrian names. Cronus ate his children, like Nagga did with the krakens and leviathans, imprisoning them because of a prophecy that they would kill him like a ton of other mythical figures whose time has come. If you throw in Rhaegar, we also get an impregnated moon maiden in a tower who gives birth to a hero. All the elements you lay out are present. I am thinking more and more that this is how the conflict that caused and ended the long night went. There was a leader of the AA people that antagonized the others. If we think that the Mad KIng was influenced into being crazy by Varys or anyone, then there is your Dawn age trickster. It may have even been the other AA people that were tricked/influenced, or both. Knowing what I know now about Lugh throwing his fiery spear into Balon's eye which was used against him and that the first thing the First Men did when they came to Westros was destroy the weirwood trees, I would like to submit my idea for why the moon was detroyed. Like the weirwood trees, someone had power over/could see through/channeled magic through the moon or moons. That person and his underlings were tricked into fighting and the ones without power over the moon drug it down or tricked others into doing it for them to bring that power down to earth where they could use it and take it away from their enemies. You already have the Perseus story kicked, but I want to focus on the fact they are put in a box in the water. Another similiar story with the gender roles flipped is the one of Osiris. In one version, he is killed, put in a box in the Nile, and found by Isis with his box stuck in a tree. She brings him back to life making him a green, undead, tree person, and conceives a child/hero with him. Putting all of this together and seeing how important the theme is, I feel comfortable saying that this is what we are being shown when Tyrion is set free, kills his father, and is put in a box to be shipped across the Narrow Sea. I was looking into all of this in an attempt to support what I call my "Fern Gulley" theory which is that there are spirits trapped inthe wierwood trees that are set free when they are destroyed. I want to show that all these heroes that are imprisoned and either set free themselves to become AA people, or made pregnant so their children could be set free becoming AA people are metaphors for the people trapped in trees being freed. In a pleasant surprise, it seems to be gathering support without me doing anything to help it along. I was tagged for it for the first time in reference to it by @ravenous reader today in a sort of a milestone, thanks Ravenous and I love that you are finding evidence for it in a totally different way than I am. I am missing a few important pieces before I can connect the myth to the tree prisons. When I saw your profile picture @Crowfood's Daughter and realized we were thinking about similiar things, I laughed because I was REAL close to making the fairy from Fern Gulley my profile pic, but decided against it. I want to say something and see if anyone agrees. Rhaegar in his black ruby armor is a dark Garth type Storm God like Euron in his new WoW spoilers attire. A dragon flying is the same thing as a thunderbolt or a flaming spear. When he fights King Bob it is Garth on Garth violence, but they are very different beacause one in inverted and dark while one is less so. Any of that make sense? Since Crowfood and @LmL beat me to Balon of the evil eye, I know you two are all over the Irish/Celtic mythology, which is a damn gold mine of ASoIaF. Have the two of you seen this gemstone about Cu Chulainn, Lugh's son, yet? I thought the three forgings that led to reforged Gram had the origin of Lightbringer just about finished, but then I find this. He returns to Emain Macha in his battle frenzy, and the Ulstermen are afraid he will slaughter them all. Conchobar's wife Mugain leads out the women of Emain, and they bare their breasts to him. He averts his eyes, and the Ulstermen wrestle him into a barrel of cold water, which explodes from the heat of his body. They put him in a second barrel, which boils, and a third, which warms to a pleasant temperature.
  10. The Grey King fought Garth the Greenhand

    Yea, I have a hard time believing that the God's eye is anything but a meteor lake at this point. If the lake was created by the moon meteor then, I see it as being the third opened eye that happens when the celestial one is blinded. The eye of the true gods was put out and one for the earthly greenseers was opened. Also, Morrigan is a triple goddess of the sort that may expected to resurrect a horned god. Usually a white horse takes someone to the Otherworld in the stories, and Lugh's son Cu Chulaind who is thought of as an incarnation (reborn version Azor Ahia) of him had a chariot drawn by two horses one named the 'grey of Macha(one of Morrigan's sisters)' and the other is 'black of Saingliu' and he is killed in the chariot. There are the white, grey, and black psychpomps. I really like the story about St. Patrick killing druids as another story behind him running off all the snakes. Apart form figuring out ASoIaF, ruining everything I believed as a child is my favorite thing to find going through these comparisons. I really like Santa(Satan and devil's bluster) = holly king and pan = summer oak king because I just thought of Santa Claus and Peter Pan fighting. If that is not actually a correct way of thinking about them do not ruin it for me. @Crowfood's Daughter you probably already know, but Lugh is a storm god type. Balon is a drought god, and Lugh as the child of the sun/sky and water gods is a storm god and the natural enemy of the drought. So, it looks likely team garth threw the fiery spear. I figured I was not the first person to stumble upon Balon of the evil eye. I guess I will forgive everyone for holding out on me.
  11. The Grey King fought Garth the Greenhand

    I may have found a clue about the AA character you are speaking of. As I mentioned earlier, Morrigan was the name of one of the Tuatha De Danann (TDD? @Wizz-The-Smith we need you) and she was associated with crows like the one on house Morrigen's sigil. The TDD had a battle that screams AA and moon destruction on a level I have not seen anywhere else, and the two main combatants sorta fit with the theme of this thread. In the Second battle of Mag Tuireadh the TDD battle against an army led by a guy named Balor. Balor is killed by a family member, unfortunately not a brother but a grandson. Balor has an interesting physical feature, a third eye on his forehead that when opened cause things such as the death of plants and the world catching fire to happen. Balor is killed by his grandson Lugh via a strike to his eye which turns its destructive power back on his own army. Lugh wields two weapons, a stone sling projectile and a fiery spear, and he uses one or both to strike Balor's eye and kill him, and in the process his entire force(Sauron?, Goliath?, The Mountain?, All three?). When Balor falls, his eye burns a hole in the ground which fills with water and becomes a like called "Lake of the eye". It is in County Sligo and is famous for emptying every now and then, the lake itself has a ridiculous number of different names today. Anyway, this story is a great way to tie together a lot of your and @LmL's stuff and I think on both occasions where we see a Morrigen fight an AA character we are supposed to connect it to this battle.
  12. The Grey King fought Garth the Greenhand

    In some of the stories Lann pretends to be Garth's child to steal inheritance just like Tyrion unknowingly pretends to be Tywin's. When he strips off his clothes and covers himself in butter to squeeze through the crack he sounds a lot like he is an infant being reborn in the Rock. I can see whitewashing in certain places, but I don't really understand what it is about.
  13. Yea, I am all over weirwood trees = giants that wake from the earth when the horn is blown. That is why Bran is skinchanging Hodor the giant in all those scenes in your latest episode. I actually came to that being the likely conclusion on my own not long ago through my looking into the blood eagle sacrifice to Odin that gives the sacrificed person wings and the bloody hawk on the horn blower's chest, only to see that you and others had already figured that out through different means. The blood eagle is in similar to Bran the kamikaze in that they are not new ideas, they are just an easy way to tie together different aspects that GRRM is using (if Dany Khan-issi sets sail with her Mongol impersonators she is setting herself up for a storm or Euron (I am the storm) Greyjoy to recreate the failed invasion of Japan). If I was able to find out about them through occasional watching of the history channel shows about WW2 and Vikings, I think the odds are high that GRRM is aware of them. I have no way of knowing if they are being used, but they are great ways to put things together. In one story Sigurd, the last hero with the reforged tree sword, uses the blood eagle to avenge his father Sigmund. From wikipedia... Now the blood eagleWith a broad swordThe killer of SigmundCarved on the back.Fewer were more valiantAs the troops dispersedA chief of peopleWho made the raven glad. It made the (Blood)raven glad. I am not ready to draw any new conclusions from it, but it stinks of ASoIaF. In the story I mentioned in @Crowfood's Daughter's thread it was Sigurd's grandsons who did it to their father's killer. One of them is named Sigurd and has an interesting eye deformation and another is Ivar the Boneless who seems a little like Tyrion and Theon depending on whether you think his Boneless nickname came from having deformed bones or a lack of sexual prowess. Ivar also took York through trickery just like Tyrion married Sansa to take the city of the Starks/Yorks for the Lannisters/Lancasters. Anyway, the blood eagle is only done to highborn people, usually kings, and always to avenge a killed father who in the most famous case was thrown into a pit of snakes kinda like Baelor the Blessed and the dragon knight. There is some last hero math I was getting at earlier at the burning of the tower of the hand with the pyromancer and his dozen archers. It is also present as you have pointed out at the battle of the blackwater another symbolism heavy scene. It looks like the last hero and his people either helped with Azor Ahia's ritual or the ritual was his defeat and trapping in the weir. If the last hero is AA's son, he may be avenging/resurrecting his father or it may be an inversion of the original intent of the blood eagle ritual and he may be killing his father is a star-warsian type of story. On a different note, I saw you and I think @Pain killer Jane, talking about Kali, so I looked into her. @ravenous reader and I were just going over the attempted assassination of Bran that Catelyn prevented, and I had made a note to look into her grinding her teeth on the would be killer's hand getting his blood in her mouth (other characters including Stannis are always doing the same thing). Then I see Kali the Mother figure with a rage to protect her children that gets out of control and she puts an enemy in her mouth and grinds her teeth on him to kill him and prevent his blood from hitting the ground to produce more demons. Anyway, that seems to fit and saved me from spinning my wheels for a long time trying to figure it out. And indeed if weirwood trees come from moon/comet blood that hits the ground and they are demons in a way, it makes sense to prevent that from happening.
  14. The Grey King fought Garth the Greenhand

    I think there is definitely some trickster who destroyed the moon and corrupted the WWnet stuff going on with Lann. Books are symbol of weirwoods being made of trees and storing knowledge. It looks like Lann may have tricked the trees or greenseers from this quote. I could not decide if the Rock was a symbol of the fire moon or the WWnet. Now that it has been established that the trees were transformed when the moon was destroyed, it can be a little of both and makes more sense. Lann found a secret way into the Rock. It was probably not a method that was without causing destruction. He whispered from the darkness, howling like a demon, sounds like a greenseer or an impersonator of one. He stole treasures and turned brother against brother which I think is exactly what you are getting at. I wonder what treasures those were. He filled the Rock with vermin which sounds like he corrupted the fire moon/WWnet driving out the original inhabitants. Smuggling in a pride of lions sounds like letting the sun's fire into the fire moon/WWnet which is something that happened right? They ate the men and he claimed the women which given that Nissa Nissa was a weirwood person sounds agian like he killed or ran out the children's souls in the trees and claimed the WWnet for himself. Lann impregnating the women without them knowing while they slept is interesting. I have no idea what that means, but maybe greenseers can create a new sort of people in a way. Impregnating the lord's daughter is another way of saying the same thing as above. Also, he used the sun to brighten his hair/heir. AA reborn had the sun's energy in him.
  15. The Grey King fought Garth the Greenhand

    @LmL, I think you definitely blow the horn, die and go into the WWnet. The hawk on the chest dripping blood in the quote above appears to be a reference to the practice known as the blood eagle. It was a legendary sacrifice to Odin, where the person's lungs were pulled through cuts in the back to form wings. Blowing the horn is being sacrificed to the trees and it gives you wings to fly with. It is said this was performed by the sons of Ragnar Lodbrok as revenge on the king who threw him into a pit of snakes. The whole group of brothers are grandsons of Sigurd the wielder of the reforged tree sword Gram because Ragnar was said to have married his daughter. One of the brothers was named Sigurd Snake-in-the-eye. He was said to have the Ouroboros in his eye. I have wondered whether Euron with his eye abnormality and apparent knowledge of the coming events which are repeats of older ones are in part a reference to him.