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About Unchained

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  1. Clovis is a type of stone arrowhead and spear point. There is a Stone Age culture named for the style. It is foreshadowing his role as smith who makes the draginglass weapons. I would not rule out a double meaning where it is foreshadowing what you are referring to as well.
  2. Yea it is the sort of thing you need a shower after reading. I have a lot I want to say, but in the name of keeping it short, Cersei is like the lion that Lann sneaks into Casterly Rock that eats the trueborn sons of House Casterly. Tywin-as-Lann gets Robert to marry her thereby sneaking her into the Rock. Jaime-as-Lann takes advantage of that to remove rivals for his bastard to rule. Doubt I am the first to think that, but I have not seen it said.
  3. Hey PKJane, glad to see you back. Your Odyssey "no one" find is great and got me to looking into that cyclops some more. Is this river theory you are speaking of involve the story of the love triangle of Acis, Galatea, and the Cyclops Polyphemus? In that one the cyclops kills the lover of the woman he wants with a boulder only to have him reborn as a river and the spirit of that river by Galatea. Sounds a lot like @Crowfood's Daughter's Grey King being struck down by Garth only to be reborn from her mermaid's kiss. I think that The Grey King's death by storm hammering, which is told to us in the story of Durran Godsgrief, is the first "failed" forging of Lightbringer, one where he serves as Nissa Nissa just like water fills the Nissa Nissa role in first forging in the myth. I am tempted to think you may be coming to similar conclusions through different means which has me feeling optimistic.
  4. Here's the quote Looks like Wenda is a song too like Arya and Jenny. The House is House Cafferen. Robert beats them, then they join him and their lord is killed by Randyl Tarly who sends his head to Aerys. I am going to add huntsman Randyl sending his lord a white hart to the list of things that gives me a strong Snow White vibe. That list is several items long now.
  5. Yep, have you noticed the similarity in the names Craster and Caster? We'll see if I can prove it, but I suspect Lann to be a child that was offered up or was meant to be offered up to "Caster" or "Garth" or whatever you want to call him. Caster's son Corlos was a huntsman who spared the lion cubs, which I think means baby Lann, just how another huntsman Sam spares one of Caster's sons. From Littlefinger we know that people who are spared when young sometimes come back and steal castles. His strategy of stealing the Eryie is exactly what Lann uses to take the Rock, tricks, impregnating the women of the castle, and controlling the heir which is really his son. I am getting to be pretty certain that the Others are like a sun god Garth King after Lann steals their fire to empower his sunlight drinking meteor children turning the solar Garth people into white winter suns. All those white swords at the Eryie you pointed out once show up after Littlefinger usurps it. Is Wenda the white Fawn one of the weirwood women you have coming up? Being a fawn would seem to make her a child of the forest. Arya thinks about becoming an outlaw like her. I want to write about the Kingswood brotherhood, but I can't figure out where she fits in even though she must. Apart from being really funny what does it mean to brand your sign on someone's ass? That's really about all we know about her. I can't figure out her significance. Maybe it is marking someone for death later delivered by Lady Stoneheart?
  6. I am on team sequence, but I am conscious that nearly every example I have to support that could be read another way. To see it, you have to look at character arcs in sequence. I think he last two of Bran's retrograde vision spells it out. Someone is bled out in front of the tree. Then later, a woman comes and prays, presumably to the sacrifice as he is the one in there, for avenging moon meteor children like Arya in some sort of "deal with the devil" as I am sure greenseers do not hand out favors for free. I think Littlefinger's purpose in the story is to guide us along the path of that sacrifice. He gets bled in a fight over a woman on the water stair. Then later Lysa makes a deal with the devil and asks him for help to protect Robert from her husband's attempts to give him to Stannis. He helps her, then later kills her and claims Robert for himself to rule the Vale. Of course there is Robert's Rebellion where a fight over who claims a highborn bastard is preceded by two men fighting over the bastard's mother in shallow water, so there seems to be a sequence to me. I don't think anything I have written yet disagrees with you, either. In fact I think that Howland plays the role of the female when he asks the old gods for help and gets the knight of the laughing tree, before later having to offer his firstborn to the old gods. Offering up a son for help is what the woman does. I think he plays the female role again when he serves as tiebreaker in Arthur and Ned's fight. That would not seem to make sense except that as a crannogman he has CotF symbolism and that is what you say Nissa Nissa. I am on pace to have it done around the time Winds comes out.
  7. I will take a look at the cycle you are talking about, that is not something I am familiar with. What I am looking for are cases in the books where the sacrifice is not the moon for something I am writing. I think there is something to the first two failed forgings that has not been discussed that sheds light on the particular characters involved. I think I have a few, but I could use some more.
  8. Regarding Arya's iron studding clothing possibly being a militant weirwood door, Belwas wears an iron studded vest and has tree trunk arms. When he fight Mereen's champion, whose hair is in the shape of horns, he gives him a blow right between the eyes where his third eye would be. That sounds like another killer, this time a giant eunuch, sending souls of horned people into the net. Arya's saving Jaqen from a burning tree symbol and gaining his services sounds like the Tempest where Ariel the air sprite is saved and his power harnessed by a wizard. That story has a lot of events that seem important, ship wrecks, magic storms, a usurped person using magic to get revenge and reclaim his throne. I think it is heavily used.
  9. I am hoping it is just the extra traffic from the HBO show killing the servers. Something that is related to Arya is the idea of "Mercy". In particular I wonder about the Mother's mercy. Sansa sings this song making the Hound cry at the battle of the blackwater. I cannot prove it, but I get the distinct feeling that the hidden story here is the hound being sacrificed for the mercy of everyone else. Cat prays to the mother to spare the sons about to be in the battle outside Storm's End between Stannis and Renly. She calls out "In the name of the mother" right before the shadow shows up to grant that "mercy" to everyone by killing Renly. I was just posting about the idea of a sacrifice in ASoIaF for everyone else's benefit being something based in part on "Those that walk away from Omelas" which is one of more famous works used to start discussions on morality. I think Renly and the hound are like the child that is kept in horrible conditions for everyone else's benefit. George seems the type to think that a moral person would walk away. He may be working this into his story by having people killed to end a war, such as Cat, come back harder and stronger with a vengeance. If the people you mistreat to create your new world, such as Cat or Dany in the case of King Robert, come back from the dead and hatch dragons it kinda makes your Machiavellian worldview fail pretty hard. On a different note, I liked your catch about Arya getting hit with the wooden sword after being lied to being an example of Nissa Nissa getting stabbed. What do you make of Tyrion being offered Mandon Moore's left hand? Tyrion notes that it is odd, then gets slashed with the right. Seems like the same thing to me with a fool character in place of Nissa Nissa. I am thinking in terms of an Azor Ahai - Nissa Nissa reaction these days more so than people carrying those names. If a fool character, such as the last guy in Bran's retrograde vision, is bled out in front of a heart tree for someone else's benefit, is that person Nissa Nissa? Or Azor Ahai as a sacrificed fool? Maybe both? I think that there was a person who was first the sacrificed Nissa Nissa giving power to another who then played an Azor Ahia role as some sort of Lann-type sun fire thief. Another white sword, Arthur Dayne, is said to be able to kill green men (Loras and his buddies) with his right hand while taking a piss with his left according to Jaime. I consider Tyrion to be a walking, talking offensive act of sex sometimes and thinking of him as a human penis makes sense too. That is one of the things that the comet is after all, the sun's penis. A tricky descendant of sneaky impregnating, sun stealing Lann could have that symbolism. Is Mandon holding Tyrion in his left hand and killing with his right the same as Arthur holding his own "comet" in his left and killing green men with his right? I think it is, but I am not sure what it means yet. Given your find about Arya and Syrio, it looks like a Lighbringer forging with a fool/green man serving as Nissa Nissa to me. I guess Tyrion is the moon momentarily here getting a slash across his face. Before he is playing the meteor death god role coming down from the wall and killing everyone. Like a male version of what Arya is always doing.
  10. Hey @ravenous reader, I was reminded of something I read in school while working on some ASoIaF stuff yesterday I wanted to mention. Are you familiar with "Those who walk away from Omelas"? It is about a utopian city. It is set on the summer solstice during a celebration of the day. It turns out that the perfect society is built on a scapegoat. A child is kept in horrible conditions for unknown reasons, but it is needed so everyone else can live a happy life. Certain people "walk away" when they learn. This brings to mind the beginning of the story set in a really hot summer and the tourney of the hand occurring. Everyone's happiness is built on Dany's suffering. The story is similar to "The Tamir Triad" in which an evil usurping uncle is worried about a prophecy of being overthrown by a warrior queen with a better claim than his. A pair of twins are born, one male and one female. In order to protect the female to fulfill the prophecy, their genders are switch y a wizard and the original male, now female, is killed and given to the evil uncle. The surviving prince who is actually a princess is raised haunted by her dead brother's ghost. She does a bunch of good, but it is all built on the dead brother's unwilling sacrifice. This seems to be a source for Dany and Viserys's relationship. I think in the story I am working on laying out, there is a period of peace after the little brother is killed by a hammer of the waters, he becomes the Grey King before he steals the fire of the gods. Theon and you-know-who from Winds are Grey King figures that suffer horribly. That is a case of someone suffering for a false peace. The Grey King is a sacrificial greenseer impaled on a tree to give power to the king to rule. Aerys's rule was peaceful thanks to Tywin putting up with his cruelty. Likewise when someone like Littlefinger or Tywin rules through a sacrificial bastard like Sweetrobin, Tommen, or Joffery, peace seems possible, but it is all built on the suffering of one. The moral argument people have about the Red Wedding about whether it was ok to kill all those people to end a war is exactly the same discussion teachers use "Those who walk away from Omelas" to begin. Robb stares at Dany with "mute appeal" during her HotU vision. You have written about mute appeal a few times and you probly have a better understanding of what it means than anyone. So, I thought you would be interested in these stories. I think this is the peace that King Robert has. It is built upon the suffering of Dany and Viserys. Also, Davos is written almost exactly like one of Those that walk away. I think that is an important point GRRM is trying to make with his complex morality. If you use an unwilling scapegoat to obtain peace, it will fail eventually. They will get help, in the story from a woman, and the house of cards collapses.
  11. Great piece. Very detailed as always methodically chipping away. Keep it up. I have a bit of a one-track mind right now, but in what I am working on right now I think the female character in the ancient drama I am trying to add a piece to, does a few Gaia things. She is an angry earth goddess who is always killing one cruel male god or another for mistreating her and/or her children in the Greek creation story. She tends to do that by empowering his son to usurp him. I think that is something I see. She is also suffering at a couple points having her children imprisoned inside her. That may be something that George is pulling from for the awfully unhappy looking trees which have something trapped in there. Her response to her husband trapping them in there is to castrate him having his godly blood fall everywhere. Of course, she also works with the Melai to save Zeus and use him as a weapon against Cronus. The Melai save Zeus from being consumed. The CotF seem to do the exact inverse feeding the last hero to the weirwood goddess to fight something. At least that is how I interpret a "stick them with the pointy end" showing up at Jon's death in addition to the children making greenseers out of two other last heroes in Bran and Bloodraven. Arya and Lady Stoneheart are both full time vengeful nature spirits. If Sansa kills Littlefinger in some way like everyone thinks I think that would be the same thing right? I think I can explain some more about what is going on there, if that actually happens of course.
  12. The short and hopefully understandable version is that yes I agree with that. The third round you are talking about is where the child puppet king rebels against his little brother puppet master like the king of Rohan does to Grima and Saruman. Rohan is in a vale after all. It seems to be headed toward Sweetrobin in the books, but he not being important enough was replaced by Bran who is like the literal version of everything Robin is metaphorically. I think all three rounds are decided by a woman. Cat gives her favor to Brandon. It comes full full circle in the sence that the little brother starts out sympathetic and winds up a tyrant like his big brother was. That allows the author to connect and overlap the stories in different ways.
  13. Hey @ravenous reader, I really like to see mentions of a flyting. They are definitely something George is using as a representative as a greenseer fight with windy words. We have talked about Lokasenna as one he uses at Viserys's death. Another I think that is used is Harbardslfod. In Lokasenna Thor wins by threatening Loki with a lightening hammer blow. In this other one Thor (the big brother played by Drogo when Viserys dies) instead loses a war of words against a guy named Greybeard who most people think is Odin in disguise but may be Loki. Greybeard even uses some of the same insults against Thor's wife as Loki does at Lokasenna. Greybeard denies the crossing of a river to Thor. Loki takes the form of a salmon after Lokasenna to escape the gods wrath, but gets caught anyway. Edmure is a trout (cousin of the salmon) and denied Tywin from crossing a river. That may be a revenge of the Loki brother event.
  14. Hey there LmL, haven't seen you around in a while. I am am thinking about some things for a topic, and the kingswood brotherhood is one example I think shows it well due to its many similarities to the ToJ fight. Allow me to play the devils or your advocate for a moment. The smiling knight is not a moon character, I think. There are two things I see with him. First, the Kingswood brotherhood represents a malignant force in the trees. Arthur goes to remove it. In order to gain admittance, he has to win the loyalty of the locals. Jaime calls them the 'forest folk'. They represent the CotF. They help Arthur get into the trees like the CotF helped the last hero. There seems to be an inversion because a white cloaked person should represent the enemy of the last hero, but George has to make it fit the story and not give us the pure version all in one place so we can forgive that. Once Arthur gets into the weirnet, we get a battle between a white cloak wearer and someone whose sword breaks and has has hero math wounds making the smiling knight the last hero fighting the Others played by Arthur. Does that sound right to you? Also, if you are the children, how do you put someone in the weirnet? You have to kill them. The children killed the last hero to send him into the cold dead lands, maybe. Arya represents a CotF and is a killer. There was a great thread I read a long while ago about Arya as a Valkyrie. They are choosers of the dead and cupbearers, both of which Arya is. When last hero Jon dies, we get a thought of 'stick them with the pointy end'. That is connecting Arya's killing with sending soldiers to the land of the dead. The dead warriors Valkyries choose serve in Odin's army at Ragnarok, so it all fits, I think. See, some of us share our ideas on Arya on the forums instead of hiding them and not telling anyone they exist haha. The second thing is that the smiling knight, rather than a moon, is a sacrificial fool. He is a fearless madman who wants a magic sword, symbolizing great power. Fools are ignorant optomists diving into a journey they know nothing about and consequences he damned. Arthur says he will have it, then kills him. The magic sword is akin to the burning crown motif of the king of the ashes. When you get it, you die. Viserys is called a fool by Jorah right before he gets his burning crown that kills him. Sacrificial fools are comet people. They are the person who dies and enters the tree or moon. That is the Morningstar sun usurper. He impregnates the sun's wife, ironically giving horns to the already horned solar Garth King, and then his children drink the sun's power like tricky greenseer Lann's do. Sneaky impregnating is Lann's speciality and also the method by which the Morningstar usurps the sun. Any of that sound right to you? By the way, I am trying to write a series of long OPs right now and it is a damn chore. I don't know how you do it. I am a month in and I don't think I am even very close to being done with the first one.
  15. I am writing something about a brotherly rivalry that repeats over and over with one tricky and one strong brother. He appears to be using Thor and Loki as the two and references myths with them in it over and over. I am not sure if they were adopted brothers in the comic books like they are in the newer movies, but if they were, it fits exactly what I think I see with Loki as the overcompensating, insecure, ambitious younger who wants to be a king himself.