SansaJonRule

I thought it was awesome!!! Considering how rushed the season has been, I really wondered how they were going to be able to finish it up well, and I was very pleasantly surprised. I cried so much! First when Tyrion found Jaime's hand. Ripped my heart out. Blubbered like a baby when Jon killed Dany, esp when Drogon kept nudging her, and even worse when Arya said good bye to Jon. I totally called Bran being made king a couple seasons ago; I can't believe it! I have never called anything like that before. "Why do you think I came all this way?" So, I guess, Bran can see the future, at least some things? All in all, I think everyone ended up where they needed/deserved to be. Didn't like Bronn being on the small council, though. I loved him for his snarkiness, but a sell sword on the small council? I know he's finally received his payment, but he's always been out for himself, and now they're going to trust him to do the best for the realm? Hmmmm. Then again, he did say the founders of all the great houses had been cutthroats. Brienne finishing Jaime's page in the book of knights with tears in her eyes, heartbreaking but appropriate. And Pod a Kingsguard. Too cool. They pulled Edmure out of obscurity so he could make an ass of himself one last time. I know a lot of people are gonna hate Sansa being Queen in the North, but really, who else is there? It has to be a Stark, and she is the only one who always looked out for the interests of the North. She was being groomed for it ever since she went to Kings Landing. And it's a cool bit of irony that at the beginning of the show she couldn't wait to get out of the North, and now she's the North's champion. I know a lot of people will not be happy about Tyrion being made hand either. But he was at his best when he was standing in for his father as Hand of the King to Joffrey and when he first started advising Dany on political matters only. It was when he had to make decisions regarding warfare that he failed miserably. He has a brilliant political mind, but a lousy military mind. A lot of people think he was trying to save Cersei for his own sake, but I believer it was purely for Jaime's sake. When they're walking through the rubble at the beginning, he says he needs to find Jaime. Nothing about Cersei. I really loved it when he stood up to Dany with complete anger and disgust in his eyes (he has great eyes). I thought it was great that neither Jon nor Tyrion got off scott free. They both did what they did knowing full well the consequences, and they were ready to accept them. Their conversation in Tyrion's cell may have been the best part of the episode. I wondered if Tyrion would say something about pissing off the end of the world. The scene with Drogon's wings unfolding behind Dany was some seriously good cinematography. Also liked him roaring at the end of Dany's speech, and melting the Iron Throne was totally awesome. So, Westeros is not ready for democracy, but they're on their way to representative government. Yay! I didn't get that impression. All the Lannister soldiers seemed to have surrendered last episode. Jon didn't believe in Dany more, but remember he is loyal to a fault. None of them wanted to believe she was what she had become because they all loved her (love is the death of duty). Varys was the first to accept reality I think, because of what he had seen before with other rulers. In the end, Dany's character WAS a driving force for good. Her ideal about how to get there just became very warped. Tyrion said it very well.

About how he hates the bells because they always mean something bad has happened. What of it? How is that evidence of your scorching evaluation on the show?

Most people, but not most rulers. Not good ones, anyway. And that's what she claims to be.

I think they have clearly showed that deep down, Tyrion really does love his family, even Cersei, which is why that scene where he tells Jaime you're the only one who didn't treat me like a monster is so poignant. He used humor as a defense, but he was deeply wounded my his father's and Cersei's hatred for him. He eluded to it more than once in the series.

Yes, I know I misspelled it. I just didn't care cuz I'm tired. Okay, I totally misunderstood what you meant about being angry for such a long period of time. I honestly don't know how long a person can stay in an adrenaline fueled rage. I am not a medical professional. Are you? And I'm not asking that sarcastically. I truly don't know how long adrenaline can fuel a person. I expect part of that would depend on the health of their adrenal glands to start with and that it would be different for each person. However, you're assuming that it was adrenaline fueled rage that was driving Dany. (The look on her face certainly looked like rage,) It could be more like temporary insanity, or schizophrenia, or something like that. In the past she has almost always justified her actions. We'll just have to wait for the final episode to find out. Yes, Cersei provoked her, but Tyrion and Varys? How so? And I'm referring to intentional provocation. Perhaps you are not. Anyway, 1) a good leader is not that easily provoked 2) she already killed Varys, why didn't she just kill Tyrion and Cersei instead of thousands of innocent people?

After he met Brienne and lost his hand, he did start to change. He definitely had an internal struggle to be a better man, and many of us were hoping he would overcome his baser self. And although the old Jaime was just too deep rooted for him to totally become the better man he wanted to be, he had come a long way. The old Jaime would not even have wanted to be a better man.

Well, it may be a case of temporary insanity brought on my anger, fear, disappointment, etc. But she is too easily pushed over the edge, at any rate. She is definitely unstable.

Excellent point.

She admitted to Jon that she doesn't have any love in Westeros, only fear, and she resigned herself to it, so I don't think she cares anymore. Part of that wasn't just trying to save Cersei. He was making a deal with Jaime in order to try to save the people of KL. He had to give Jaime some incentive to do what he asked. Why does almost everyone insist Dany's actions have to make sense? They accepted her out of fear, which Dany knows is all she has to rule with as well. MADNESS DOESN'T MAKE SENSE!!!!!!!! Everyone is trying to apply logic to something that is inherently illogical. But if you have to have a reason: Dany was LOVED in Essos. She comes to Westeros, tries to win the hearts of the northerners by fighting the NK,; it doesn't work. She falls in love with Jon, who bends the knee, but in this episode as much as admits he doesn't love her the way she loves him. Her heart is broken, her hopes and dreams have been crushed and she sees that fear is the only hold she has in Weseros. Could quite possibly be enough to push someone over the edge when they're already tottering on the fence. Guess he finally found the balls the sorcerer chopped off years ago. But seriously, you'd have to go back to a conversation he had with Tyrion in season 6, I think, where he tells Tyrion how he always justified his action (or inaction) because he wasn't the one doing the killing or whatever, and he makes it very clear he can't accept that kind of justification anymore. Seriously? You're blaming them?? Blind much? You are quite fortunate to have never encountered anyone in your lifetime with that level of anger. There are people (in the real world) who think everyone is out to get them and are mad at the whole world. I know, I was married to one such. They're narcicists.

Remember the setting. That is a very modern idea. The Volonquar prophecy was never in the show!!!!!! No offense, but how many times does that have to be said? I was quite disappointed in that myself, (and actually Grey Worm started it) until I stopped to think what war does to men. Blood lust takes hold in the heat of battle and men turn into animals. It has happened historically over and over. So it was realistic. They did an excellent job of showing the horrors of war, from multiple perspectives. And from the story perspective, it really showcased the fundamental difference between Jon and Dany. I gave the episode a 9, because I don't like that Cersei presumably died in the arms of the man she loved buried under the rubble. But at least she was scared. I liked watching her fear for her life. Before I go into my other comments, I have a question. The Lannister army surrendered at the gates of the keep, Jaime rang the bells to signal surrender, and then weren't some gates supposed to open? As far as I could tell, the gates were not opened. Why can't Dany ever just behead people? No, she always has to burn them. And people couldn't see what was coming? The scene between Tyrion and Jaime was wonderful, when they hugged and Tyrion wept. Tyrion risking being executed for treason to save the innocent people of King's Landing. So awesome. At first watching Dany and Drogon take out all the ships and scorpions was 10 kinds of awesome. And when she burst through the city walls from the inside, I thought great, she decided not to kill the innocents and she's not gonna go the way I've expected her to. And after the bells rang it looked like she was headed straight for Cersei and was gonna bypass all the people in the streets and just take her out. But then she turned all fire crazy. Sigh. Jaime killed Euron! Yay! I loved Arya and Sandor in the map room. He turned Arya from being driven by her need for revenge, and she actually called him by his first name before thanking him. Very touching. I thought Clegane bowl was great. I hated that Sandor had to die to kill his brother, but I expected that. It was the best way for Sandor to go, getting the revenge he had sought all his life. So, it will be interesting to see what happens between Jon and Dany in the final episode. She feels he betrayed her by telling Sansa his true identity, and then as much as admitted he doesn't love her, so now she's heartbroken too. He was clearly NOT HAPPY about her torching the city after they had surrendered, not to mention her actions just poured more fuel on their already battle crazed troops. Arya was clearly not happy with Dany either and we know she already didn't trust Dany, so I wonder what role she will play next episode. Maybe she will solve Jon's problem for him? What was the green fire that kept erupting in the city? At first I thought there was wildfire hidden throughout the city, but it didn't spread. Even after all this, Dany has a chance to redeem herself. If she repents of what she did to the city, admits that she is not the best to rule and abdicates the throne. I know Jon is the best person to rule, but he doesn't want to. He'd be miserable, and I want him to be happy. But then, he did choose to join the NW to serve the realm of Westeros for the rest of his life, so maybe he still will be bound to serve, just in a different way.

Oh come on, she's been tottering on the edge for a long time. Insanity is not logical. That's what makes it so unpredictable.

Well, ever since she took the throne, he seemed to be falling less and less under her thrall. Love is a strange thing though. It often defies all reason. Just the sight of Euron makes my skin crawl, even more than seeing Ramsey did. I don't know how I'll ever be able to watch him in another show. But that really is a credit to the actor's skill.

Thanks!

Oh yeah, that's right. I totally forgot about that. And I just watched the whole series AGAIN in December!

Examples? Because I don't agree with your assessment, but it's quite possible I missed something. Or, are they showing us the true nature of a Targaryen? That's how I'm reading it. Everybody loved her for years when she was in Essos. I, for one, have not liked her for quite a while. Everytime I start to think maybe, she shows what I think are her true colors.

That's quite possible. Although it is difficult to imagine what kind of deal he could make that Dany would not consider treason. Even though Tyrion didn't have any problem killing his father, I can't shake the feeling that deep down he doesn't want Cersei dead. Just off the throne and out of the way. Tyrion would be stupid to not have his doubts, but as long as he does have some faith in Dany, it seems he would keep the secret to himself. There's the potential for a lot of trouble there. On the other hand, considering the source, the further it gets from the source, I expect the fewer people there will be who actually believe it.

I was referring to her attempt to have Tyrion killed during the battle of the blackwater. We haven't actually heard her give the order. There is speculation it is all Qyburn's doing. If it was just Tyrion, I'd believe the order came from her. But the fact that it includes Jaime makes that theory plausible, to me. I'd have to watch it again myself (and would if I could remember which season and episode it was), but most people on here say it wasn't in the show, just the books.

I'm not sure about that. Something tells me that's what we're supposed to think. Although if that does turn out to be the case and his redemption arc was all for naught, I'm gonna be pissed. That would be oh so satisfying!

Me either. I know Bronn is out for himself, but he was just such an asshole. Guess he's fed up. Cersei never been able to bring herself to kill Tyrion. It's one thing to command someone to do it during a battle, it's another to have it done right in front of her eyes. She threatened Jaime and couldn't have him killed either. Volonguar prophecy is not in the show!

That sums up most of it for me. I really didn't know what to expect from this episode, for the most part. I really liked how it started with Jorah on the funeral pyre, and then Sansa crying over Theon. Some hard farewells. No more Tormund. Jon did what was best for Ghost and maybe saying goodbye to him would have caused Ghost to follow him. Better to ignore him. Kind of like Arya throwing a rock at Nymeria to make her run off. But I cried. The goodbye that shocked me was Sam. What???? We're not going to see any more of Sam????????? Is he going back to the Citadel? He and Gilly are having a baby YAY! So can he even be a maester anymore? Are he and Gilly ever going to get married? I'm going to miss Gilly to, for that matter. I'm pissed off at Sansa for telling Jon's secret. But I'm even more pissed off at Tyrion for telling Varys! He still wants Dany to be queen, so why would he tell? And what is with him having so much faith in both Cersei and Dany? He doesn't believe Cersei isn't a monster? And it's an advisor's job to worry about his monarch's state of mind? Does anyone else feel like he just doesn't want to admit he was wrong? I was surprised when Jaime stayed at WF with Brienne. We knew he had to leave at some point. Why did they have to have him break Brienne's heart in the process? And after we saw her laughing and having fun for the first time ever. Speaking of broken hearts, poor Gendry!! Tormund's broken heart seemed to mend quickly. Is Pod going to have any actual speaking lines this season? Or is he just going to smile and sing? I was very shocked when Rhaegal was shot down. Since he made it through the battle last season, I thought he might make it to the next battle. That ambush was a total shocker period. I thought that was very well done. I loved it when Sansa put her hand on Sandor's. I wonder how long it's been since anyone has shown him tenderness. Did Jon wink at Dany when the men were all around him and joking? My, but he looks nice when he winks! I don't like the wedge D&D are driving between Jon and Sansa. Arya and Sandor travelling buddies again. Nice. But what's this about Arya not planning on going back home??? Oh, and Dany "Are you drunk?" Jon, "No. <stumbles> Well, only a little." LOL! An assassin who tells others his/her plans will not be an assassin for long.

When Baeric shows up, even Arya seems annoyed that he interrupted her and Sandor.

I'm not sure. Another member and I discussed that last week. The AotD is not encumbered by fatigue, so could they had run the whole way? That's one of the things that drives me crazy in this show. They make it very difficult to gage the passage of time. There were archers on the wall at the beginning. They covered the retreat. I suspect one of the reasons we didn't see more defensive obstacles was time limitation. Possibly why we didn't see a couple more characters die. They didn't have time to do justice for anymore big characters die. Very surprised Podrick lived, as he is not a big character.

He warged into the ravens. I think he was keeping an eye on exactly where the NK was. Yes, I did finally see that. I had to sit right in front of the tv and watch closely (I'm a little nearsighted). I saw at least one dragon, but when do they show Ghost? Anyway, *happy dance*! Another thing I really liked was how Drogon seemed to be trying to comfort Dany as she was crying over Jorah.

I believe people did die. At the end it looked like freshly dead bodies on the ground. I don't think that was Gilly. I think it was an unknown. But we don't see Gilly standing with the other survivors, so we don't know yet. Does anyone know what Sansa said immediately after Tyrion said "Perhaps we should have stayed married"? Was it "you were the best of them"? I've played it over a few times and I just can't tell for sure. I wonder if any of those still standing end up dying from their wounds?

After watching it again, I dropped my rating from from 10 to 8. -2 points because a lot of the wights spurted blood when they were killed, and this was before the NK raised the newly dead. Dead bodies do not bleed. They just wanted to increase the gore effect (cuz sadly so many viewers love it).