Megorova

And who is the daddy fo this second child? Rhaegar left Dorne months ago. In a span of Rebellion there was not enough time for Rhaegar and Lyanna to conceive two pregnancies which resulted in childbirth. The duration of pregnancy is 40 weeks, which is 9 months and 10 days. So for two completed pregnancies, Lyanna would have needed 18 months and 20 days. But the Rebellion lasted for about a year, either a bit more than 12 months or a bit less than 12 months, but definitely not as long as 18 months. Thus, if Lyanna's "bed of blood" is a childbirth-bed, and Ned got to Dorne in time before Lyanna's death, after she gave birth to her child, and if this child was conceived by Rhaegar, before he departed from Dorne to King's Landing, then this child was Lyanna's sole child, and there was and couldn't have been other child or children from her previous pregnancy. There was not enough time for carrying and birthing more than one child (or two if they were twins, but GRRM said that Jon is 8-9 months older than Dany, thus they weren't twins).

Two weeks maximum. Examples: Elizabeth of York gave birth to a child on 2 February, died on 11 February, 9 days later. Catherine Parr - birth on 30 August, died on 5 September, 6 days. Jean Webster - birth June 10 at 10:30 pm, died at 7:30 am on June 11, in less than 24 hours. Émilie du Châtelet - birth on the night of 4 September, died on 10 September, 6 days. Jane Seymour - birth on 12 October, died on 24 October, 12 days. Jane Seymour's case, with 12 days, was the longest that I found. So it's more likely that Lyanna died days, not weeks, after giving birth to Jon. Though, in Ned's memory Lyanna died in a bed of blood, which seems that she died hours, not days, after giving birth to her child. And even though she had a fever, the case of her death was not puerperal fever, but a bloodloss.

In some cases GRRM did used exact dates for characters' birthdays, and for some other events, mentioned or described in the books. In the World Book he revealed only one specific date, nameday of King Daeron II. All other dates under spoiler are from Fire&Blood. Daeron II - born on December 31st. Jaehaerys I - born on September 20th. Rhaenys - July 7th. Alysanne Targaryen - died on July 1st. Viserys I - died on March 3rd. Rhaenyra - died on October 22nd. Etc. If GRRM wrote a specific date for when King Jaehaerys I Targaryen ate breakfast with the envoy of the Iron Bank of Braavos, then it's likely that eventually he will write/reveal a specific dates when were born all important/relevant characters, such as Rhaegar, Jon, Dany, Rhaego. Probably, he left those reveals for Fire&Blood Volume 2. Such as precise dates of the Battle of the Bells, the date of Ned and Cat's wedding, the Battle at Trident, the Sack of King's Landing, The StormNight when Dany was born, the date of King Robert's death, the date of Ned's execution, the date of the Red Wedding, etc.

@corbon I think that the naming is done like this, examples: 1. the mother claims that her child was fathered by a highborn man: 1a. if the father doesn't acknowledge the mother's claim, then the child is given a bastard-name based on the mother's regional origin. Mya Stone, Glendon Flowers. 1b. if the father acknowledged the mother's claim, then the child is given a bastard-name based on the father's regional origin. Edric Storm. 2. the mother doesn't make any official claims about the father's identity: 2c. if the mother is highborn, then the child gets a bastard name based on the mother's regional origin. Daemon Waters, Aegor Rivers, Brynden Rivers. 2d. if the mother is lowborn, then the child isn't given a last name. Gendry, Bella (one of Robert's), Marei (supposedly Kevan's or Tywin's daughter), Alysanne, Lily, Willow, Rosey, Bellanora, Narha, Balerion. 3. the mother doesn't make any claims about the father's identity (either she is dead, or she doesn't want to give a last name to her child, or to reveal who the father is), though the father admits that the child is his, and claims that child, takes it under his protection (sometimes even without the mother's consent). Jon Snow, Sarella Sand, Obara Sand, Nymeria Sand, Tyene Sand, Alayne Stone. Unfortunately, in nearly all cases with bastard-characters, it isn't known who their mothers are, and all of them are acknowledged by their fathers. If we had more characters like Mya Stone, bastard-children, born by lowborn mothers, and not officially acknowledged by their highborn fathers, then it would have been more clear, whether proposed by me system is correct.

It seems that the bastard-children get their bastard name based on the origin of their mothers. Mya is a Stone because her mother is a Valewoman. Edric is a Storm because his mother is a Stormlander (or is she from The Reach? ). Bloodraven and Bittersteel were Rivers (not Waters, even though their father was a King), because their mothers were from Riverlands. Daemon I Blackfyre originally was Daemon Waters, because his mother was from King's Landing. Also there was Glendon Flowers, son of Quentyn Ball. Apparently, his mother, same as his father, was from The Reach. So, Quentyn was Flowers, even though he was born at King's Landing. In case with Jon and Sand Snakes, they got their bastard names based on their fathers' place of origin - The North and Dorne, Snow and Sand. Because Ned was hiding who Jon's mother was, and thus he wasn't given a bastard name based on his mother's origin. And even though some information is known about mothers of some of Sand Snakes, such as that one of them is a septa at Oldtown, and that the other one is a trader from Summer Islands, their names are not publicly known, and thus their origin is also not revealed, and that's why their daughters got Sand as their bastard name, based on their father's origin. So, the bastard name is given to a child, based on his/her mother's origin. But if the mother's origin is not known, then they are named based on their father's origin. P.S. If the child was given a bastard name based on the place of birth, then Jon should have been a Sand, and Glendon Ball should have been a Waters (because he was born at King's Landing, where his mother opened a brothel after the war). So, probably, Mya is a Stone, because of her mother, and Edric is a Storm, because he wasn't named based on his mother's origin. That's because he was acknowledged by his father, who was a Stormlander, and that's why he is a Storm. There. Now it all fits. They have a complicated naming system, that differentiates children's' naming based on circumstances. Jon was acknowledged by his Northman father, Sand Snakes were acknowledged by Oberyn/Dornishman, Edric by Robert/Stormlander. While Mya, was not acknowledged, and thus was named a Stone, after her mother's origin. Same with Glendon Flowers, unacknowledged by Quentyn Ball, born at King's Landing, by a mother who was from The Reach.

From the Eyrie Jon and Robert went to Gulltown, and Ned went to the Fingers. Eyrie -> Fingers, ~18 days -> White Harbor, 26 days. 44 days in total to get across the Bite. Ned arrived to the sea, 18 days after his departure from the Eyrie. Could be that he met that fisherman and his daughter at the Fingers, and that's when locals thought Jon was conceived, while Ned was going from the Fingers to Sister Islands. Or could be that at the Fingers Ned took a boat, and sailed from there on his own. And because he was not a sailor, fisherman, or seafarer, he was not very good at it, and thus got washed up at one of Sister Islands. So could be that that's when and where he met that fisherman, and used his assistance when he continued his voyage north. If Ned met fisherman and his daughter at the islands, then it was already 30 or so days after the beginning of rebellion, or 18 days in case if he met them at the Fingers. This is my calculations from another thread, from 2018 (its archived so its unqotable): 93 days to get from the Eyrie to Winterfell and to Stoney Sept. That's without inclusion of how much time Ned spent at those locations, or his pauses for rest, or for how long his troops were gathering and preparing for the march (or sailing). Brandon and Rickard were executed in first half of October. A bit over three months after that, happened the Battle of the Bells, in first half of January. From Stoney Sept to Riverrun - 235 miles, thru hilly grasslands, 25 miles per day, 9.4 days. Thus, the wedding at Riverrun was held in first half of February. And that's when Robb was conceived. Which places his birth in late November. So I totally agree with you that Ned didn't remained in The North to gather all of his people. Otherwise he wouldn't have gotten to Stoney Sept in time to save Robert. According to my earlier calculations, the Battle at Trident happened either in late July or in early August, and the Sack of King's Landing happened in August. Dany was conceived in August and was born in second half of May. Jon was born 8 months before Dany, in September. And Rhaego was born 8 months after Dany's birthday, in January (she was ~1,5 months pregnant on the day of her 14th birthday, mentioned in AGOT). There's exactly 8 months gap bewteen all of their birthdays: Jon (September, 283) <- 8 months -> Dany (May, 284) <- 8 months -> Rhaego (January, 299) <- 8 months -> Jon (September).

Less. ~6-7 months. In span of that time Gerold Hightower went to Dorne to fetch Rhaegar from there. Based on what Jaime remembered from that time, Rhaegar didn't had a lot of spare time after his return. He had to go to Trident pretty soon after his return. Duration of the trip from KL to Starfall is approximately 80-90 days (depending on thru what kind of terrain Gerold/Rhaegar traveled). So the round trip was 160-180 days long. Another 14 or so days from KL to Trident. 174-194 days or 5,8-6,4 months of travel time. +for how long Rhaegar was staying at wherever Gerold found him, before he went back to KL, and +for how long Rhaegar was staying at KL, while preparing for the battle. Thus, it was definitely no more than 7 months or so. But definitely NOT 9 or more, not even 8.

Varys was always spying on them, even before Darry's death. His people wouldn't have let anything to happen to Targaryen-duo, because he was intending to eventually use them for his plans. It's likely that Darry's illness and death was caused by Varys. He killed Darry, because that guy started to make his own plans, when he arranged to make a marriage alliance between Martells and Viserys. Afterwards, when Dany and Viserys became homeless, Varys' people were watching over them, preventing them from being killed or kidnapped, or enslaved, but otherwise they were staying in shadows. Targaryen-duo didn't died from starvation, even after they sold everything they had left, including their mother's crown, is because, besides making his spies to monitor Targaryens, he also occasionally sent to them "good Samaritans", people that were supposedly Targaryen-loyalists, and were willing to help them. Though no one ever kept them for long, because Varys and Illyrio didn't trusted even to their own agents. Because even those agents could have eventually started to make their own plans concerning Targaryens. Same as Darry did. Could be that Darry originally also was working for Varys, was helped by him to get Targaryen-kids to Braavos, and settled them in a house there. And later, to prevent Targaryens from settling somewhere permanently, he occasionally sent to them information that Robert's dogs are supposedly hunting them, and that caused them to leave from wherever they were staying at that time, and to move on. Until Varys and Illyrio decided what to do with them, and finally let Targaryens to settle at Illyrio's mansion in Pentos, where they spent 6 months before Dany's wedding. That's when Varys got from them what he wanted, and there was no reason anymore to keep them alive. Both Dany and Viserys were supposed to die at the Dothraki Sea, but that wouldn't have freed Khal Drogo from providing to Illyrio 10.000 Dothraki-warriors, to aid fAegon in conquest of 7K. So, even if anyone tried to do something to Dany and Viserys, they were prevented from actually doing it. Illyrio/Varys has influnce in Essos, he's like a mafia boss. It's unlikely that some slaver would have wanted to spoil his own business by overcrossing Illyrio/Varys.

Yes, Wylla could have used a boat or a ship to get to Winterfell, and so could have Catelyn. (I did some calculations ages ago, about traveling during and after Robert's Rebellion, with researching such information as speed of horses on various terrains, speed of medieval ships, speed of flying birds, speed of rowing boats, speed of marching troops, etc.) From Starfall or the Tower of Joy (from there to Wyl river is 1-3 days of ride on horseback or by cart/carriage) thru The Summer Sea and The Narrow Sea to White Harbor, and from there up White Knife river in direction of the Long Lake, from there it's only a few days ride to Winterfell. And Catelyn could have went from Riverrun by the Red Fork to the Bay of Crabs, and from there to White Harbor, etc. Starfall/Tower of Joy is very far away from Winterfell. It's months away even from Riverrun. The distance between Riverrun and White Harbor is ~ 2085,5 nautical miles. Distance between Starfall and White Harbor is ~3649,7 nautical miles. Between Tower of Joy and White Harbor ~ 2606,93 nautical miles. Average speed of medieval ship is 5 mph (nautical miles per hour). Duration of sea-voyage to White Harbor: - from Riverrun - a bit over 17 days; - from the Tower of Joy - nearly 22 days; - from Starfall - a bit over 30 days. And if they went via land-route, then from Riverrun to Crossroads Inn distance is 300 miles, and from Starfall to Crossroads Inn it's 1620 miles. From Crossroads Inn they would have traveled the same distance to Winterfell via the King's Road. Though, the thing is is that if Catelyn traveled from Riverrun via land, then she would have went all the way by roads (River Road and King's Road), and Wylla would have went half of her way via mountain marches. I found info on speed of travel on horseback, thru various types of terrains, how far a horse can travel, miles per day: https://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?t=19730 On Roads / trails Level or rolling terrain: 40 Hilly terrain: 30 Mountainous terrain: 20 Off-Road (or unkempt trails etc) Level/rolling grasslands: 30 Hilly grasslands: 25 Level/rolling forest/thick scrub: 20 Very hilly forest/thick scrub: 15 Un-blazed Mountain passes: 10 Marshland: 10 So Catelyn would have traveled 300/with speed 40 miles per day = 7,5 days to Crossroads Inn. And Wylla would have traveled 840 miles thru Dornish Marches, 840/20 = 42 days to King's Road and from there additional 780 miles to Crossroads Inn, 780/40 = 19,5 days. So to get from Riverrun to CI Cat would have needed a bit over one week (that's without inclusion of stops, that they could have made on their way), and to get there Wylla would have needed 61,5 days (or if most of the way thru Dornish Marches was by marshlands, then it would have taken her 840/10 = 84+19,5 = 103,5 days to get to CI). And additonal 1320 miles from CI to Winterfell, 1320/40 = 33 days. 40,5 days would have lasted Cat's voyage, and 94,5-136,5 days Wylla's voyage. Or 17 (Cat) and 30 (Wylla) days, if they traveled by ships. If they traveled by land, then Wylla's voyage would have lasted ~2-3 months longer than Catelyn's trip. It's unlikely that Wylla lingered at Dorne after Jon's birth. Most likely, Ned would have wanted to get Jon to Winterfell as soon as possible. Thus, he arranged their voyage north shortly after Jon's birth/Lyanna's death. To get to Winterfell, Wylla would have needed 2-3 months more than Cat. So unless Cat lingered at Riverrun for more than 2-3 months after Robb's birth, then Jon was born earlier than Robb. His earlier birth would have compensated that additionally needed travel time. There is a very slight possibility that Robb was born earlier, though, because Lyanna eloped with Rhaegar at least three months before Robb's conception, I doubt that Jon was born later than Robb.

No, it wouldn't. If Jon is 8-9 months older than Dany, who was born in first half of 284 (this is based on various elements mentioned in the books), then he was conceived between 17 months+10 days and 18 months+10 days before Dany's birth. Duration of pregnancy is 40 weeks, which is 9 months and 10 more days. So 8-9 months + 9 months and 10 days, is those 17,10-18,10. Dany was born no later than June of 284. She didn't turned 16 yet in 300. In one of Tyrion's chapters it was mentioned that someone in Volantis will begin rebellion 6 months after beginning of 300, and it didn't happened yet, so it's not yet the end of June in the end of ADWD. If the latest possible day for Dany's birth is June 30 of 284, then possible months for Jon's conception is 17,10-18,10 before that, and that's 20th December 282 (if Jon is 9 months older) or 20th January 283 (if Jon is 8 months older), that's in case of a fulltermed 40 weeks long pregnancy. He was born in September, and she was born either in second half of May or in first half of June (8-9 months later), May seems more likely (based on when Varys informed Robert about Dany's pregnancy, and when Dany turned 15, how soon after Rhaego's birth in early 299). The Bettle of the Bells happened in January of 283, so in December of 282 Ned could have been in the area near The Bite, in proximity to where lived that fisherman's daughter. That islander (forgot his name) believed that Jon's mother named him after Jon Arryn. So, it's likely that he thinks that Jon was conceived not when Ned alone was going thru The Bite from Gulltown to White Harbor (at that time Ned visited that islander's father, and he was alone, he met that fisherman after that visit), but when Ned was going from White Harbor thru The Bite, when he was joining his troops to Jon Arryn's troops, in December. Then they went from The Bite, thru Riverrun and to the Stoney Sept. They had enough time to get there by the middle of January, when the Battle of the Bells happened. Distance between Riverrun and Stoney Sept is ~235 miles, 9,4 days on horseback (but this isn't the maximum possible speed, it's a medium). Distance from The Bite to Riverrun is ~twice further, 470, 19 days. ~28 days (or less, if they traveled faster) from The Bite to Stoney Sept. Jon was born in September of 283, and was conceived in December of 282, and at that time (in December) Ned could have been in The Bite area, where Jon's supposed fish-mother lived. But may make Robert to realise that the child not only isn't Ned's, but also CAN'T be Ned's. He would have figured out that the baby is Lyanna's and Rhaegar's child, not Ned's bastard. Wylla isn't fisherman's daughter. Those islanders from The Bite think that Jon's mother is one of their own, not some Dornishwoman. But Ned also told to various people contradicting information about Jon's origin, so if he lied about that, he could have also lied to them about Jon's age. Though Jon himself knows when is his real birthday. And other people, except Jon himself, didn't cared when exactly is that bastard's name day. It's not like anyone ever celebrated it, or gave him any presents. Let's return to this discussion after TWOW's release. Dany's 16th birthday will be in the beginning of the book (if there will be Dany's POV in it). Then we will have more information. Also, when it will be revealed that Rhaego is alive, it will prove my theory, that all three future dragonriders are Air Signs of Zodiac. Jon is Libra (Libras are born September 23-October 22), Rhaego is Aquarius (January 21-February 20), and Dany is Gemini (May 21-June 21). Based on what happened in AGOT between Jon's departure from Winterfell and Ned's execution, it seems that Robb's birthday was later than Jon's, and closer to the end of the year than Jon's. To me it seems that Robb was born in October or even in November, and Jon's name day was before that, which places Jon's birthday into September, and then he is Libra. I'm kind of going in circles, but my absolute believe in my theory is based on symbolism around Starfall and Dawn of Daynes. Jon is Libra, because Libra's guardian planet is Venus. Venus is the Morning Star, and its name in Latin is Lucifer, which translates as lightbringer, which connects Dawn of Daynes to Azor Ahai's Lightbringer, and connects Jon to Starfall, as the place of his conception and possibly even his birth, and places his birth in September. If he is Azor Ahai reborn, who was born under the bleeding stars (at Starfall), and he is the Sword of the Morning, and Dawn of Daynes is Azor Ahai's Lightbringer/Lucifer, then The Morning Star Venus is Jon's guardian, which makes him a Libra. To figure out Jon's age, that he is older than Robb, is important not because of the possibility of Jon becoming Ned's heir instead of Robb, if Ned ever legitimized Jon, but because if Jon was born earlier than Robb, who was born close to the year's end, then Jon could be Libra, which connects him to two other prospective dragonriders, Dany and Rhaego. Three heads of the dragon, three dragonriders, three Air Signs of Zodiac - Libra (Jon), Aquarius (Rhaego), Gemini (Dany).

Officially the war ended when Ned lifted siege of Storm's End, that was before he went to Dorne. Also, after Cat gave birth to Robb, they departed from Riverrun to Winterfell. And by the time when she arrived there, Jon with his wet-nurse was already there. Cat departed from Riverrun, and Jon with Wylla departed from Dorne (either from the Tower of Joy, or from Starfall). Dorne is much much much further from Winterfell than Riverrun, so isn't Jon's presence at Winterfell, at the time of Cat's arrival there, is an evidence that Jon was born earlier than Robb? Lyanna gave birth to Jon and died. Ned sent Wylla with Jon to Winterfell. Cat gave birth to Robb, and shortly after that they went to Winterfell. Or maybe they were staying at Riverrun for months after Robb's birth. If Jon was born after Robb, then how did he got to Winterfell before Robb got there? He was born further from Winterfell than Robb. The difference in distances could have been compensated only by difference in timing. Thus, he could have gotten there sooner than Robb, only if he was born earlier.

This could be incorrect. It's likely that Cersei found out about Jon, at about that time, when Ned told about him to Robert. Is it known when did Ned told Robert? He could have told him, when he brought Lyanna's body to King's Landing. Or maybe at that time he hid Jon's existence from Robert, and Robert found out that Ned fathered a bastard, only at the time of Greyjoy Rebellion. Maybe that's when Ned had to lie to Robert, and also mentioned to him that his bastard's mother is named Wylla. By that time Wylla (Jon's wet-nurse) had already left Winterfell. If Robert found out about Jon's existence during Greyjoy's Rebellion, he could have told this information to Cersei, after his return to KL. Something like - Honey, can you imagine what my buddy Ned did? He fathered a bastard on some peasant Dornishwoman! So, there's a possibility, that Cersei knew about Jon even before her arrival to Winterfell. That couldn't have happened. Because when shortly after the end of war Cat asked Ned whether Ashara Dayne was Jon's mother, and he asked her where did she heard this, he forced his people to stop gossiping about it. It was in Cat's chapter. Thus, Cersei couldn't have heard about Ashara rumour at Winterfell. Ned stopped those rumours in his castle years before AGOT.

What is the source of Cersei's information that Jon's mother is a Dornishwoman? Who is the source of Catelyn's information that Ashara Dayne was Jon's mother? Who specifically? -> GRRM didn't wrote it, on purpose. Information that Jon's mother was a fisherman's daughter, at least is from a named source - Godric Borell. And Stannis could have used any other jape to insult Jon, not necessary that one, not necessary something about his mother, and not necessary about his mother being a fishwife, if he didn't believed that Jon's mother was a fisherman's daughter. "You haggle like a crone with a codfish, Lord Snow. Did Ned Stark father you on some fishwife?" - it's not some popular saying in Westeros, "haggle like a crone with a codfish" was used in ASOIAF only once. For example, he could have called Jon a leech or a pit bull, with the same result. Instead he had chosen to say "you haggle like a crone with a codfish", to be able to naturally insert into their conversation mentioning about Jon's fish-mother, and to remind Jon that he is a bastard, and that he shouldn't talk with the King like he did.

Cersei thought that Jon's mother was either Ashara Dayne or a Dornish peasant. Robert thought that Jon's mother was Wylla, a serving woman from Starfall. Catelyn thought that either Jon's mother was Ashara Dayne, or if otherwise, then she had no idea who his mother could have been. Those three thought that the mother was from Dorne, because that's from where Ned brought Jon, after the war ended. Though, there's another group of people, who think otherwise. People from Sisters Islands think that Jon's mother was a fisherman's daughter, and that Jon was conceived in the beginning of Robert's Rebellion, when Ned was trying to get from Gulltown to White Harbor. Those people lived closer to The North, so unlike Cersei, they known more information about Jon. It's likely that some of those people visited Winterfell during Greyjoy Rebellion, or on some other occasion, because their overlord was married with Ned's sister-in-law. They were Jon Arryn's bannermen. And it is known that Catelyn and Lysa saw each other several (5 years) prior events of AGOT. Thus, it's likely that Lysa visited Cat at Winterfell, while Ned, Robert and Jon Arryn were fighting against Ironborn. And some of Jon's people were staying with Lysa, while she was at Winterfell. Those people know Jon's actual age (they have met him), they know that he was conceived in the beginning of Rebellion, still in 282, not in 283. Thus, based on what they know, about the timing of Jon's birth, and thus also about the possible timing of his conception, they think that the mother was that fisherman's daughter, because that's with whom Ned was at the time when Jon was conceived. In December of 282. Stannis also thinks that Jon's mother is a fishwife. Because Stannis knows one of those people from Sisters Island - Godric Borell. "According to Lord Godric Borrell, the daughter of the fisherman who brought Eddard from the Fingers across the Bite to the Three Sisters at the beginning of Robert's Rebellion gave birth to Eddard's bastard son, and according to Godric, it had been she who gave Jon his name, in honor of Jon Arryn.[29]" "During Robert's Rebellion, Eddard Stark washed up on Sweetsister while trying to sail to the north to raise his banners. Godric's father, Lord Borrell, could easily have turned Eddard over to King Aerys II Targaryen for a reward. Godric was in attendance when his father instead freed Ned.[1] Because the Three Sisters have long tolerated smugglers, Lord Stannis Baratheon, master of ships for King Robert I Baratheon, once sent a fleet to Sisterton without Godric's leave and made him hang a dozen friends. Stannis threatened to hang Godric as well should some ship sink because the Night Lamp had gone black.[1]" @SFDanny After Ned's wedding with Catelyn, he went south. And Three Sisters are located north from Riverrun, near The Neck. Those islanders, based on Jon's age, believe that his mother is a fisherman's daughter from Sweetsister. Ned had no contact with her after his wedding with Cat. She was in northern direction, and he went south. The only time when they were in contact, is in the beginning of Rebellion, in late 282. Or, even if Ned went again thru that area, on his way from The North to Stoney Sept, still that was BEFORE his wedding with Cat. After Stoney Sept, and until the end of the Battle at Trident, Ned and Robert were staying together. So Robert knew that Jon couldn't have been conceived in that time period. Thus, Jon was conceived before the Battle of the Bells, and before Ned's wedding. Thus, Jon is older than Robb.

No, I don't have evidences, though there's too many similarities between Planetos and Earth for them to be coincidental, seems that GRRM did used Earth as a basis for Planetos, or a sort of a parallel version of it. For example - the map of Planetos and Atlas of Earth - Westeros is Europe, Westerlands is Britain, The Reach is France, Dorne is Portugal, Spain and Italy, The North is Norway, Sweden and Finland, etc.; in Essos - the Dothraki Sea is Russia, Lhazar is Kazahstan, Red Weste is Mongolia, Great Moraq is India, Yi Ti is China, Leng is Japan, the Bleeding Sea is Bering Sea, Grey Waste is Canada, Land of Shrykes and Bloodless Cities is Unites States, Shadow Lands is Mexico, Ulthos is Southern America, Sothoryos is Africa. Also GRRM wrote into the story a Harvest Moon and Hunter's Moon. In case with Earth, Hunter's Moon for Northern Hemisphere is in October, and for Southern Hemisphere is in March. After Joffrey's death, in Cersei III, chapter 12 of AFFC, - "When Cersei looked up she saw the tower's crenellated battlements gnawing at a hunter's moon." It was some time after Joffrey's death. He died on first month of 300 AC, and that scene with the hunter's moon happened several months after his death. He died on January 1st, and that scene was happening in March. Also it seems that King's Landing is located in Southern Hemisphere of Planetos, while Winterfell (based on the time of their Harvest Moon) is located in Northern Hemisphere. According to Wikipedia a Harvest Moon is the full moon closest to the autumnal equinox. Thus, if GRRM is using Harvest Moon, as part of his story, then the autumnal equinox also does exist in that world. The Harvest Feast seems to be a parallel to Earth's Thanksgiving. The Tournament at Harrenhal, that was held in the end of October - beginning of November, is a parallel to Halloween, with the Knight of the Laughing Tree as Lyanna's trick or treat "costume". Also there's a red wanderer. "Among the free folk, the red wanderer is known as the Thief.[2] Supposedly when the Thief is visible within the constellation of the Moonmaid, it is a good time for a man to steal a woman.[1] Ygritte tells Jon Snow that the Thief was bright in the Moonmaid the night he captured her.[1]" When did Jon kidnapped Ygritte, was it close to a years beginning? Could it have been on 14th of February? Saint Valentines Day? It happened in ACOK. Mormont's great ranging departed from Castle Black soon after appearance of the Bleeding Star, which was at about that time, when it was Joffrey's birthday, and his birthday seems to be in late January or early February (that's when Rhaego was born, and Rhaego is Aquarius). Ned was executed in late 298, close to the year's end. In span between his execution and Joffrey's birthday of 299, Sansa was locked in her room, without bathing and nearly without eating. Even though she's young and healthy, it's unlikely that she could have lasted like that for more than a month or so. Thus, Joffrey's birthday was either in late January or early February. Also, while Sansa was locked in her room, her own birthday happened then, between Ned's execution and Joffrey's/Rhaego's birthday. And later in 299 (near the end of that year, shortly prior the Purple Wedding, which was held on January 1st), when she got married with Tyrion, he asked her how old is she, and she said that her 13th birthday will be after the moon's turn. So, either her birthday is in December or in early January, earlier than Joffrey's. Based on the time of Ned's execution, Sansa's birthday, Joffrey's birthday, etc., it seems highly likely that Jon kidnapped Yigritte in the middle of second month, on Valentine's Day. If my calculations are correct then GRRM used in his books Halloween, Thanksgiving, Valentine's Day, and probably some other "special" days too. I started my calculations based on one fact (or rather combination of three facts) - according to GRRM, age difference between Jon and Dany is 8-9 months, he was born in 283, and she was born in 284. Using solely that information I placed the range of their birthdays - for Jon between March and December of 283, for Dany between January and September of 284. Then I narrowed down those ranges, by using what was known about events and timing of Robert's Rebellion, relocation of characters in span of Rebellion, distances and time required to travel between important locations, etc., etc., etc. In the end I narrowed down the range for Jon to ninth-tenth month of 283, and Dany's, that was born 8-9 months after him, to fifth-seventh month of 284. Though, with inclusion of information, provided by GRRM, about when in the year is Dany's birthday: - That she got married to Khal Drogo approximately 6 months after her 13th birthday. - That she realised that she was pregnant on the day of her 14th birthday. - When Ned and Robert got information about Dany's pregnancy. Whoever delivered that information to Varys, had to travel back from where Drogo's khalasar was at that time (traveling from Pentos towards Vaes Dothrak). That messenged had to go back all that way, that khalasar had traveled east after the wedding. Because there are no RavenMail in Essos, so information could have been delivered only via messengers. And it took several months for that delivery-guy to get to Varys. And at the time when Varys sent that information to King Robert, Ned and his daughters were near Darry castle, traveling to King's Landing. And we know approximate duration of that voyage (based on Ned's, Cat's and Tyrion's POVs). If we know for how long lasted Ned's journey from Winterfell to King's Landing, then we also know approximate duration of Robert's journey from King's Landing to Winterfell. And we know that he departed from KL soon after Jon Arryn's death, and that Jon Arryn died 14 days after Joffrey's birthday, and we know when approximately is Joffrey's birthday/same as Rhaego's birthday. - We know approximate duration of Dany's journey from the site of Rhaego's birth/Drogo's death to Quarth. Dany turned 15 years old on the road between Vaes Tolor and arriving to Quarth. Joffrey's birthday, and thus also Rhaego's birthday, is either in January or February. Dany's khalasar traveled for 3-4 months after Drogo's funeral. That eliminates July as possible month of Dany's birth. Thus, she was born in May-June. Which also eliminates October as possible month of Jon's birth. Thus, the only possible month of Jon's birth that was left, is September. Let's try a different approach. Jon couldn't have been born in November or December, because for those months to be months of his birth, he was supposed to be conceived in the middle of March the latest, or in the middle of February as the earliest. If Rhaegar departed from Dorne too late after February-March, then there wouldn't have been enough time to get to King's Landing, and then to Trident, and then for the Sack of King's Landing to happen (that happened less than 9 months prior Dany's birth), and for Ned to go to Storm's End and then to Lyanna, when she gave birth to Jon - for all of that to be in time to happen still in 283, and for Dany's birth, that happened in 284, to happen not too late or too early in 284 <- because the day of her birthday is tied to her realisation that she's pregnant (for her 14th birthday), to her arrival to Quarth (for her 15th), and it didn't happened in first one-four months of those years* (298 and 299), and no later than 7th month (if her people traveled thru the Red Waste for longer than 3-4 months then they wouldn't have survived. Also Dany's march thru Slaver's Bay places her birthday in first half of a year. Also in 300 her 16th birthday didn't happened yet, and people of Volantis planned to begin their rebellion in June, and it haven't started yet, so by the end of ADWD, it isn't June yet). *Ned and the girls weren't yet on their way to King's Landing in January-April of 298 (that's when Ned got news about Dany's pregnancy, which happened months after her 14th birthday. The messenger needed several months to deliver that info to Varys). For them to begin that voyage, first they had to prepare for it, and those preparations lasted close to a month, and prior those preparations, Robert and his family had to arrive to Winterfell from King's Landing, and for them to depart from King's Landing, first Jon Arryn had to die, and he died 14 days after Joffrey's birthday, and we know when approximately is Joffrey's birthday, based on events that happened between Ned's execution and the appearace of the Bleeding Star above King's Landing on the day of Joffreys' birthday in 299. So, even though GRRM carefully tried not to reveal too much information, what info he did gave, is enough to figure out when Dany and Jon were born.

Jon's conception happened before the Battle of the Bells. I calculated all movements of important characters from early 281 to Dany's birth, and it all fits. Jon was conveived on Christmas Eve (because there's symbolical connection to Starfall, Dawn of Daynes/Azor Ahai's Lightbringer, etc.). Lyanna and Rhaegar eloped together in the middle of September, and they got to Starfall by 20s of December. Fullterm pregnancy, 40 weeks from Christmas is in 20s of September. A year is ~53 weeks long. Christmas is on 52nd week. 20s of September are on 39th week. So from December 24th on week 52nd, it's exactly 40 weeks, a fulltermed pregnancy, to 23rd of September (Jon's birthday) or other 20th of September, which is on 39th week of a year. Jon was born in 20s of September, because he is Libra, there's a symbolical connection that ties together three heads of the dragon - all three of them are Air signs of Zodiac, Dany is Gemini and Rhaego (who is alive) is Aquarius. I think that Jon was born on September 23rd, because it's a day of Autumnal Equinox, which is also symbolical. It's a day in which duration of the day and night are equal, but starting from that day, each next day of a year becomes shorter and nights become longer. So after AE-day, the "Long Night" came. Jon was born at Starfall, under the bleeding stars, like in the prophecy, and after his birth, each night became longer than the previous, like in the prophecy about Azor Ahai reborn. The day of Jon's conception is special (Christmas), same as the day of his birth (Autumnal Equinox), the days of Dany's and Rhaego's conception and the days of their births are also some "special" days, like Equinoxes or Solstices, or some religious days (in Christianity or Paganism). Dany (Gemini) was born on May 21-June 21; Rhaego (Aquarius) was born on January 21-February 20. One of those days has some symbolical meaning, and that's the day of Dany's/Rhaego's birth. Or maybe Jon was conceived on Winter Solstice, which in 1982 was on 22nd of December. It's likely that GRRM was using dates from 1982-83-84 for 282, 283 and 284, and 1999 for 299 (year of Rhaego's birth).

In GRRM's case sometimes the absence of evidence is an evidence. For example, when Ashara Dayne supposedly commited suicide, there was no body, the absence of her body is an evidence that she isn't dead. Eventually GRRM will reveal Jon's actual age. I'm saying that Jon was born in September, and Dany in May or June, 8-9 months after Jon (what GRRM said). While Robb's birthday was either in October or November. Let's wait and see that I am/was right.

@SFDanny AGOT, Jon III, chapter 19. "“He said he’d be back by my name day,” he admitted. His name day had come and gone, unremarked, a fortnight past." - Jon's 15th birthday was 14 days ago. On that same day he received news that Bran regained consciousness, the raven brought that message 14 days after Jon's birthday. AGOT, Bran IV, chapter 24. <- First Bran's chapter after he woke up. In that chapter there's no mentioning of Robb's birthday passing while Bran was in a coma. (Jon's birthday also wasn't mentioned there, though it was mentioned in one of Jon's chapters, so GRRM didn't repeated this same information in other chapters, not to give to readers too many clues). When Bran's birthday happened off pages, it was mentioned in the chapter. So, based on that, it seems that by chapter 24, Robb's 15th birthday didn't happened yet, otherwise Bran would have mentioned it. In one of Bran's later chapters, Bran VI, chapter 53 - "Robb seemed half a stranger to Bran now, transformed, a lord in truth, though he had not yet seen his sixteenth name day." <- By this point Robb is already 15, otherwise Bran would have thought that Robb isn't even 15 yet, but instead he thought that Robb isn't even 16 yet. Which means that his 15th birthday happened sometime prior this chapter. Between chapter 53 and 24, while Jon's birthday happened in span of chapter 19. Thus, Jon's birthday is earlier.

Catelyn knows that Jon is older than Robb, that he was conceived before Ned married with her. But to Robert Ned lied that his bastard was conceived already after his wedding with Cat, because if Robert knew Jon's actual age, he would have realised that Ned can't be Jon's father, because if Jon was born in September, then he was conceived in December, and Robert knows for sure that in December Ned wasn't with some girl, whom he could have impregnated. Robert believes that Jon's mother is Wylla, and that Ned met Wylla already after he got married with Catelyn. " Lady Ashara Dayne. It's an old tale, that one. I heard it once at Winterfell, when I was no older than you are now. I doubt there's any truth to it. But if there is, what of it? When Ned met this Dornish lady, his brother Brandon was still alive, and it was him betrothed to Lady Catelyn, so there's no stain on your father's honor. There's nought like a tourney to make the blood run hot, so maybe some words were whispered in a tent of a night, who can say? Words or kisses, maybe more, but where's the harm in that? Spring had come, or so they thought, and neither one of them was pledged.[6] —Harwin to Arya Stark " Catelyn thought that Ned fell in love with Ashara at the time of the False Spring, in late 281, and that they got back together in late 282, before Ned agreed to marry with Cat. Thus, Cat thought that Ned impregnated Ashara in late 282 (in December, because Jon was born in September), and several months later, probably while the pregnancy wasn't yet revealed to Ned (in January or February 283), he got married with Cat, and only later found out about Ashara's pregnancy. It is known that Ashara's brother, Arthur Dayne, was amongst Rhaegar's companions, who helped him to kidnap Lyanna. So, maybe, Cat thought that, after departing from The Vale, Ned sailed to Starfall, to check whether his sister is there, and also to visit his paramour, and that's when Jon was conceived by Ned and Ashara. And that after the war ended, Ned again went to Starfall, this time to give Arthur's sword to his sister, and that's when he supposedly found out that he has a bastard-child, and tried to take him away, and Ashara commited suicide because of this. This confirms my theory: " If Jon had been born of Ashara Dayne of Starfall, as some whispered, the lady was long dead; if not, Catelyn had no clue who or where his mother might be.[9] —thoughts of Catelyn Stark " She knows that Jon is older than Robb, he was conceived before Cat's wedding with Ned. Though, she thought that Ned again went back to that woman, after he married with Cat.

Jon IS older than Robb. That's why Catelyn was afraid of him so much. Because if Ned ever decided to ask his buddy, King Robert, to legitimize Jon, then Jon, as an oldest child, would have became Ned's heir and the future Lord of Winterfell. Jon was conceived on Christmas Eve, while Robb was conceived in January or February. Jon was born on 23rd of September in 283 (the day of autumnal equinox in 1983), and Robb's nameday is in October or November (November most likely). When you will be ascending back, check this out - Jon is Libra, Rhaego is Aquarius, and Dany is Gemini. All three are Air Signs of Zodiac. Three heads of the dragon. Jon is Azor Ahai reborn. Dawn of Daynes is Azor Ahai's Lightbringer. Jon is partially Dayne, thru Dyanna Dayne, mother of Aegon V Targaryen. The carrier of Dawn is titled the Sword of the Morning. Planet Venus is titled the Morning Star. Also in latin its name is Lucifer, which translates as "lightbringer". Venus is a guardian planet of Libra. Jon is Libra. Libras are born in September 23-October 22. Robb's birthday is later, closer to the Harvest Feast, which is Thanksgiving (the fourth Thursday of November).

Ned brought (supposedly) his bastard-child and the baby's wet-nurse to Winterfell. The people there were provided with information that Wylla came from Starfall, and that Ned Stark also visited Starfall, to give back Dawn to Ashara. Thus, they made assumption, that Jon's mother was Ashara Dayne, and that Ned brought his child and a wet-nurse for him from Starfall, after Ashara there commited suicide. While Ned was on his way from Starfall thru King's Landing to Winterfell, he provided Robert with false information that his child's mother is Wylla. People at Starfall were made to believe that the mother of Ned Stark's bastard was Wylla. Because they obviously knew that there was nothing going on between Ashara and Ned, and thus Ashara can't be Jon's mother. They know it that Ashara isn't Jon's mother, and they are unaware that the people at Winterfell think that the mother of their Lord's bastard is their (Starfall's people's) Lady Ashara. Ned intentionally disinformed people, while giving different information to people at different locations. It's not like those people will even meet each other, to compare notes on what Ned Stark said about his baby's mother.

Where is that stated? Wylla was Jon's wet-nurse. Edric Dayne said so. He made a wrong conclusion that Wylla is Jon's mother, but he wasn't wrong that Wylla was Jon's wet-nurse. Wylla was working at Starfall prior Jon's birth. She was a wet-nurse and she served in that capacity at Starfall. Which means that prior Jon's birth there was another baby born at Starfall, and Wylla was hired to serve as that child's wet-nurse. And that child was Ashara's daughter, Meera Reed. Then, after Jon was born, and Lyanna was dying, 3KG took Jon and his wet-nurse with them and went to Dragonstone. Ned was able to intercept them at the Tower of Joy. He and Howland were the only survivors, and after the fight Howland went back to Starfall to fetch his wife and daughter, and Ned with Jon and Wylla also returned there. Because Ned's ship was there. Ned sailed to KL on that ship, with Wylla and Jon. That's when Robert either met Wylla or heard about her from Ned. Ned brought Lyanna's body to Robert, and then to Wintefell. It's easier to travel with a dead body, a newborn baby and a wet-nurse, on board of a ship, than on horseback or carriage, also it's much faster. So when Ned brought Jon and Wylla to Winterfell, they were introduced there as Ned's bastard and his wet-nurse. Several years later, when Jon didn't needed a wet-nurse anymore, Wylla went back to Starfall, where she became Edric's wet-nurse. And later, when Edric was older, she told him that she used to be Jon Snow's wet-nurse at Winterfell, or something amongst those lines, and Edric incorrectly interpretet that Jon is Wylla's child. It doesn't makes sense for Ned to change Jon's wet-nurse. Things like that are not done. Not without a reason. Jon had to change wet-nurse for Mance's child, because he needed to send Gilly away, and also to send away Mance's son, and thus this way a new wet-nurse wouldn't have known that the baby, that was given into her care, is a different baby, not Mance's son. Why to send Wylla away? It doesn't make sense. She was near Lyanna, in Lyanna's last days, Lyanna approved her as her child's wet-nurse, in case if she herself will die during childbirth. If Lyanna didn't approved Wylla as a potential wet-nurse for her baby, then she had months and months of her pregnancy to hire a different wet-nurse. Nevertheless Wylla became Jon's wet-nurse and cared about him on the trip from Starfall to the Tower of Joy, and from the Tower of Joy back to Starfall, and from there to King's Landing. Doesn't makes sense for Ned to change a trusted and loyal servant, approved by Lyanna, a person who knows Jon's real identity, and is loyal to Daynes and Targaryens, and cares about Jon, doesn't makes sense to send her away and to hire someone else. That's absurd. Wylla was Jon's only wet-nurse. And Cat met her at Winterfell. And there is no need for this to be stated anywhere. Because it's obvious.

That's not a possible option. Cat met Wylla, and Cat heard from other people what Ashara Dayne looked like, so Wylla is not Ashara. When Cat arrived with little Robb from Riverrun to Winterfell, Jon was already there, with his wet-nurse Wylla from Starfall. When Jon became older, Wylla went back to Dorne, and later became Edric Dayne's wet-nurse. I'm sure that Jon was born at Starfall (it (Lyanna's bed of blood) fits with the "born under the bleeding stars" prophecy about Azor Ahai reborn, and Dawn of Daynes is Azor Ahai's Lightbringer). Then, seeing that Lyanna is going to die, 3 Kingsguards took Jon and departed from Starfall. And when they were leaving, they took Wylla with them. I think that Wylla was wet-nurse of Ashara's child, Meera Reed. Howland Reed's wife, Jyana Reed, is actually Ashara Dayne. Ned and Howland intercepted those Kingsguards at the Tower of Joy, because they (3KG) stopped there on their way to Dragonstone, where they planned to bring their King (Jon). Lyanna wasn't at the TofJ, when Ned came there, she died before that. The scene where Lyanna made him promise to get Jon back, and to prevent those 3KG from revealing Jon's real identity to other people (which would have resulted in his death), took place at Starfall. From Starfall Ned went to the TofJ. And to Starfall he sailed from Storm's End. And it was Howland Reed, the father of Ashara's daughter, who informed Ned, that his (pregnant) sister is at Starfall.

I think that Varys' little birds are NOT mute, their tongues weren't cut out. The only source of information, that all of those children are supposedly tongueless, is this - https://towerofthehand.com/blog/2013/05/27-conquest-44-report-grrm/ "Varys' little birds do have their tongues cut out. They are "provided to him" that way." <- I think that this information is unreliable. Because of five reasons: 1. It's not a direct quote from GRRM. 2. AGOT, Eddard's chapter whatever number - "“Leave Lord Varys to me, sweet lady. If you will permit me a small obscenity—and where better for it than here—I hold the man’s balls in the palm of my hand.” He cupped his fingers, smiling. “Or would, if he were a man, or had any balls. You see, if the pie is opened, the birds begin to sing, and Varys would not like that. Were I you, I would worry more about the Lannisters and less about the eunuch.”" Littlefinger obviously meant Varys' little birds, and how can they "sing" (reveal Varys' secrets to Littlefinger), if they have no tongues? 3. In the GOT-Tv show Varys' little birds weren't mute or tongueless, they talked with Qyburn. 4. There are "mistakes" or intentional/unintentional misleads even in the Citadel, in the So Spake Martin. For example, information about year of death of Larra Rogare, here - https://www.westeros.org/BoD/Transcripts/Entry/The_World_of_Ice_and_Fire_AMA "Following the release of The World of Ice and Fire, we invited players on the game to an “AMA” inspired session of talk about the book. ... Elmer says, “I had a question. Larra Rogare is mentioned to have left Westeros at some point…do we know when? I assume she’s ot present in our timeline?” Jyana says, “I’m flipping through, too, but all my questions would be of the, “Can we have someone from Yi Ti show up at some point?” variety, which. Y’know.” Balerion says, “Not opposed to some plot where a scholar or adventurer of Yi Ti comes along to record the histories of the barbarians out west.” Balerion says, “Larra’s not around. Let me see…” You say, “That reminds me, there are a few things we need to get into the family trees now that the book is out, stuff we felt was too spoilery beforehand.” Balerion says, “Oh, another feast day: Smith’s Day” Balerion says, “So, yeah, the Seven each have a feast day except maybe the Stranger…” Jyana says, “Don’t think I’m not tucking that Yi Ti thing away for later.” Balerion says, “There it is. She goes back to Lys in 139, and passes away in 145.” " Can someone point for me - where exactly in The World Book is it written that Larra Rogare died in 145? It isn't there. IT ISN'T. Those people were wrong about Larra, and those other people (from the first link in this post) also could be wrong about little birds. 5. Arya heard only part of that conversation between Varys and Illyrio, so readers could have misinterpreted what was said, while the whole phrase could have been something like this: "We wouldn't have had this crisis now, if they kept their tongues to themselves, and didn't spilled their beans to Littlefinger." So, there are several options of how did it happened, that this readers' misconception, that all of Varys' little birds are supposedly mute, became a canon - 1. GRRM is unaware of how readers interpreted what was said in AGOT; 2. GRRM is aware that readers misinterpreted what was said in AGOT, but he isn't correcting them, because this way it's more convenient for him. Because, while readers think that all little birds are mute, they won't suspect that amongst grown up characters of ASOIAF, characters who are not mute, there are Big birds, people that used to be Varys' little birds, people such as Shae, Bronn, Brella, even Littlefinger himself. Readers often make mistakes/misconceptions, and George Martin doesn't correct them, not always. For example, he is aware that nearly all readers think that the Three-Eyed Crow is Brynden Rivers, but he doesn't correct them, because it is his intention to misguide them. Apparently, I'm alone in my knowledge, that the Three-Eyed Crow is Shiera Seastar. Apparently, I will have to wait for TWOW's release to discuss this topic with other readers, when they will finally catch up with me.

The woman that gave red-black cloak to Mance Rayder was Shiera Seastar/shadowbinder Quaithe from Asshai. She's a cat-warg, same as her mother was, and she orchestrated what happened to Mance, she's the reason why he left Night's Watch: ASOS, Jon I " "The black wool cloak of a Sworn Brother of the Night's Watch," said the King-beyond-the-Wall. "One day on a ranging we brought down a fine big elk. We were skinning it when the smell of blood drew a SHADOW-CAT out of its lair. I drove it off, but not before it shredded my cloak to ribbons. Do you see? Here, here, and here?" He chuckled. "It shredded my arm and back as well, and I bled worse than the elk. My brothers feared I might die before they got me back to Maester Mullin at the SHADOW TOWER, so they carried me to a wildling village where we knew an old wisewoman did some healing. She was dead, as it happened, but her daughter saw to me. Cleaned my wounds, sewed me up, and fed me porridge and potions until I was strong enough to ride again. And she sewed up the rents in my cloak as well, with some scarlet silk from ASSHAI that her grandmother had pulled from the wreck of a cog washed up on the Frozen Shore. It was the greatest treasure she had, and her gift to me." He swept the cloak back over his shoulders. "But at the Shadow Tower, I was given a new wool cloak from stores, black and black, and trimmed with black, to go with my black breeches and black boots, my black doublet and black mail. The new cloak had no frays nor rips nor tears . . . and most of all, no red. The men of the Night's Watch dressed in black, Ser Denys Mallister reminded me sternly, as if I had forgotten. My old cloak was FIT FOR BURNING now, he said. "I left the next morning . . . " " The woman, that healed Mance, wasn't old wisewoman's daughter. And that red silk wasn't salvaged by wisewoman's mother from a shipwreck. Shiera Seastar in 252AC lured Bloodraven beyond The Wall, brought him to the Children's cave, gave him weirwood seed paste, and binded him to that cave. Parallel to Arthurian legend about Merlin's death and his lover, water-fairy Nimue. After that Shiera remained beyond The Wall, waiting there for Mance Rayder. She skinchanged into a shadow-cat and attacked Mance. Then she impersonated wisewoman's daughter (even though that wisewoman originally had no children), healed him, and sewed his cloak with a silk from Asshai. Most likely, it is infused with magic. Shiera gave that cloak to Mance, but not for Mance, it's for Jon. Shiera is a dragondreamer, so she knew that years later Mance will meet Jon. Then she went to Essos, where she was teaching Mirri Maz Duur, maester Marwyn, and Euron Greyjoy. And all of them will play their roles in Shiera's game of thrones.