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About Jabul

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  1. After viewing part 2 of PJ's version, my opinion hasn't changed. It's an improvement over the HBO version of Season 7. However, I still don't buy the betrayals of Pod and Lady Nym. I don't like the idea of continuing LF's power. Getting rid of him sooner (HBO version) instead of later (PJ version) is preferable. I say that it was plot armor that allowed him to survive as long as he did.
  2. Some good ideas here. Yes, the basic idea of Tarly turning his coat wasn't bad. The way the show runners developed the idea was absurd: All of the lords who come to KL from the Reach go over to the Lannister side. Or at least most of them do, and the others fail to inform Highgarden about the matter. Then the Lannister/Reach forces move across most of a continent, taking, say, three weeks or so, and Olenna and her people are taken completely by "surprise." This is nonsense. Your way, with some of Dany's forces doing highly unpleasant freelance work and turning a substantial part of Westeros back to Cersei would be much more believable, much more in tune with the way things work in the universe created in the first few seasons. Some of the lords of the Reach might well remain loyal to Highgarden, and the Queen of Thorns would still be alive. I'd say that one reason (likely the main one) that the story wasn't developed this way is that things would remain quite complicated. D & D wanted to finish things up. They felt pressed to streamline the narrative, get rid of characters, eliminate the need for scenes in the Reach and Dorne. They sacrificed logic to achieve this streamlining. Some good ideas here too. Once again, there is a conflict between streamlining and maintaining the logic of the narrative. If you had a society like Westeros which had suffered the kind of conflict portrayed in GoT, things would be incredibly messy. Lots of nobles would decide to take a sort of Tywin Lannister option. They'd want to wait and see which side was winning. Some of these lords would be in the Westerlands, and this would reduce the power of the Lannisters. Also, order would break down badly in a good many regions. The Brotherhood without Banners wouldn't just magically turn into three or four guys heading north to fight the White Walkers. There would be gangs of outlaws and broken men raiding farms and villages. The mountain tribes, with the superior armaments provided by the Lannisters, would wreak havoc over a wide area...In all, things would go to hell. This could create some interesting stories, but it would require a hell of a lot of episodes to pull the whole thing together.
  3. Interesting. Thanks for sharing this. I'll have a few comments later.
  4. My continued enjoyment of the show is a matter of some interest to me. One factor is a sort of inertia. I really liked the first few seasons, the latter seasons less so. Nevertheless, I still found value in many elements. Also, I had become invested in some of the characters and situations. I want to see how things turn out. There's a feeling of "I've come this far, so I'll keep going on." I'll watch season eight, in part to see how the show runners bring the story to an end. I may not like the ending, but I want to know what it is. This is not the only reason I maintain an interest in GoT, but it's part of it.
  5. After thinking about the Qyburn business, I find myself liking it even more. Do some of the things we discussed earlier--manage to depose the High Septon and replace him with a friendlier figure. This could keep the Tyrells in a position of power and thus in opposition to Daenerys, though still in conflict with the queen mother. Develop weapons like the ballistas and wildfire in a more plausible manner. This would make the odds more even. Then the warlocks come back into the picture. The show, unlike the books, just dropped them. However, even in the show it's apparent that the power of the warlocks has not gone to zero. Remember the little girl in Astapor? The show only used her as a gimmick to bring Barristan into Dany's service. We could do a lot more. Imagine a scene where Qyburn is talking about how to counter the dragon threat. He says that attacking the dragon rider is a possible counter measure. Then he brings in a young girl with a little ball that looks familiar to us. We could also have a scene in one of the torture chambers where Qyburn employs a crawling ugly-looking little scorpion-like device that is also familiar to us. Finally, Ser Creep tells his allies that words and spells are important. There is one word, "Dracarys," that looms large in the current conflict. He is looking into the matter. Perhaps there is some word or spell that will negate the power of Dany's command.
  6. Hmm, Qyburn as a warlock. Yeah, that could work. I don't think the show will go that way, but the idea is interesting. I had a somewhat similar idea. A character in the know in KL (perhaps Jaime) looks at the queen's advisor and says, "If those dead guys get down here, whose side will Ser Creep be on? I wouldn't count on his loyalty. He'll likely go over to the other side."
  7. Good ideas from the PJ video: The landing in Dorne makes sense. It's a lot better to have the scorpions developed in a reasonable manner instead of somehow quickly invented by a torture expert. Bringing in the wildfire makes the Lannister forces more formidable. Sending a secret letter to Lord Tarly is better than the throne scene we get in the official Season 7. On the other hand: I don't buy the Lady Nym betrayal. The Pod betrayal is hard to even understand. What would be his motivation? Littlefinger as a continuing player? Nah, one thing that Season 7 got right was eliminating this guy. As the story progressed, his always successful Rube Goldberg machines became harder and harder to accept. The Winterfell scenes were not well done, but the basic move of getting rid of Baelish was good. Some things that can't be fixed by simply rewriting Season 7: Yes, Dany's program is vague. Perhaps it's an expanded version of noblesse oblige or a sort of undeveloped belief that the Mother of Dragons will be a philosopher queen. The fleets business is a big problem. One of the reasons that the criticism of "deus ex Euron" is on point is that there are no house fleets, no royal fleet, etc. Why not?
  8. I stated a thread entitled "A More Plausible War." A discussion of the above video would fit into my thread. If anyone is interested, you can use the link below. http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/148777-a-more-plausible-war/
  9. 1. It's listed on E01--a mistake on my part. I started some other threads, but that was a long time ago, and the system was a bit different. I should have put this under E07. Don't know how much difference that would have made, but it might have made a little. 2. The Preston Jacob's version of Season 7 is an improvement. I don't agree with all of it either, but it does have some interesting possibilities.
  10. Well, that's an improvement over the Season 7 we were given. Euron's motivation is, to put it mildly, strange. He was all ready to sail off to Essos and pledge fealty to the dragon queen. Then, a couple of his relatives stole some ships, and he decided that he has this thing for a woman who, as far as I know, he has never seen before. What's worse is that we are supposed to believe that he could convince a bunch of pirate guys to follow him on the enterprise that we see. They have this humongous fleet, they sail all the way around a continent, passing up lots of tempting targets, and they offer their services to a woman who is the current occupant of the Iron Throne. These guys are sailing wooden ships, and they are offering to fight against a foe that has 3 fire breathing monsters. They are doing this because their leader has the hots for said current occupant. Frankly, it isn't much of a challenge to improve on the "logic" of Season 7.
  11. I agree with much of the above, but I'd put it in a somewhat different context. I am a long term fantasy and science fiction fan. In another thread I mentioned a rule promulgated by Ursula K. Le Guin, whom I regard as one of the best writers ever to work in these fields. The rule says that you get to create your own universe, but then you have to follow the rules of this universe. By the very reasonable standards of this rule, the show runners of GoT have failed badly. If dragons are born in season 1, and then dragons grow big and strong in the following seasons, then that is to be expected. If, however, the members of Dany's team are smart, even brilliant, in the early seasons, then they turn into dunces in Season 7, that is unacceptable. There are multiple problems with the battle we are considering in this thread. One (and I do mean only one) is the fact that it occurs so late in the game. Jaime, Bron, Lord Randyll, and a considerable force of men move most of the way across a continent, and none of their enemies realize that this is happening. The bogus "surprise" nature of the attack on Highgarden is not believable. After the castle falls, the wagons loaded with gold trundle slowly all the way back (or essentially all the way back) to King's Landing before the dunces on Dragonstone rouse themselves to action. Nah, this is baloney, and my objection is not a matter of nit picking. If the story telling in GoT had remained adequate, then the battle of the wagons would have occurred much earlier, and it would have been decisive.
  12. Okay, it seems the back story for the Battle of Qohor is the same in the HBO and the GRRM versions. Thanks for the "Histories" link. It looks like it has some worthwhile stuff.
  13. I believe the story of the Battle of Qohor is only recounted in the books, right? If it is mentioned in the show, could someone tell me in which episode this occurred?
  14. Any attempt to make the war more rational has to take on the Euron problem. His motivation, as presented in Season 7, is not convincing. Even worse, it is hard to believe that he could convince a bunch of pirate guys to follow him on the enterprise that we see. They have this humongous fleet, they sail all the way around a continent, passing up lots of tempting targets, and offer their services to a woman who is the current occupant of the Iron Throne. These guys are sailing wooden ships, and they are offering to fight against a foe that has 3 fire breathing monsters. They are doing this because their leader has the hots for said current occupant. This is hard to accept. I'm not sure what to do about it. Maybe we just have to let it go and work on other issues. One thing that absolutely should be done--Daenerys and her people have to have enough sense to include the humongous fleet in their war plans. This goes back to the critical need to show Team Dany acting with at least a minimum degree of intelligence. We have this war council with a plan to send a fleet here, a fleet there, here a fleet, there a fleet, everywhere a fleet fleet. No one even mentions the name "Euron." Essentially everyone knows that there is a big group of mean pirate guys out there. This group will most likely do something or other to disrupt Team Dany's plans, but no one says anything about the matter. Just have Tyrion, Yara, or whoever come up with some kind of idea of dealing with the potential enemy fleet. Later, we can have Euron win a victory or two by using some clever naval maneuver.
  15. 1. I don't think I'm misinterpreting Robert's comments. After all, I wrote "What does he say is a viable long-term strategy? He doesn’t say." Concerning Robert's thinking, I also wrote "It sounds more like, 'Hey, if the Dothraki get here, we’re probably doomed.'" Being doomed if the Dothraki arrive is the same as being "f*ed either way." However, as you say, 2. Robert's comments may not even enter into Cersei's thinking. Thus, the whole matter is not all that important.