Jabul

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  1. I would like to return to the central assertion of this thread. Back at the beginning of things, the OP claimed that the war made no sense and presented a number of facts and subsidiary assertions to support the main assertion. We have discussed many issues, most with at least a tangential relationship to the original post. Quite a bit of debate now, however, concerns criticism of LotR, the origin of the Night King, etc. It is clear to me that posters on this thread come from different backgrounds and use different standards when evaluating fiction. You might think that GoT is great. You might think that GoT is schlock. You might think that the show fits somewhere in between those two extremes. Unless, however, you maintain that Season 7 is tremendous, a work of near perfection, you should acknowledge that some of the criticism on this thread is valid. Some items that I think are of particular relevance: Daenerys and her friends/allies/advisers are implausibly stupid. This isn’t the only reason for Cersei’s success, but it accounts for a large percentage of said success. Cersei didn’t just kill a High Septon. She destroyed one of the central institutions of the Seven Kingdoms. The reaction of everyone, aristocrats and commoners, amounts to something like “Ho, hum. No more Vatican. No more papacy. No big deal. Let’s move on to more important things.” This is nonsense. A considerable gathering of the lords of the Reach meets with Cersei in the throne room. For some reason, none of them appears to be troubled by the destruction of another institution, the Kingsguard. The Thing That Once Was Gregor doesn’t bother them much, perhaps not at all. The lords also accept the assurance of Ser Creep of the Torture Chamber that the crown is working on a plan to deal with the dragons. Then these lords go marching across a continent. They have somehow forgotten about a pivotal event in their history, the Field of Fire. They are not worried by the fact that the untested anti-dragon weapon is packed up in a wooden wagon. This is despite the fact that they must know that dragons can fly fast and shoot powerful flames down upon an unfortunate enemy. There is a good deal more. Nothing I’ve read, on this thread or elsewhere, comes close to dealing with these matters. The acting, the dialogue, the action scenes, and a many other things in Season 7 could be fine. That doesn’t take away the problems. So, we get back to the fundamental issue. It can be covered with a simple question and a simple answer: Question: Does the war make sense? Answer: No. I’ll give another example or two of why I think “No” is absolutely the right answer in an upcoming thread or two.
  2. You raise some interesting issues. I'll just comment briefly. I think it is too simple to classify characters as people you're supposed to think about and people you're not supposed to think about. Also, the entire essence of fiction is not just characterization. Other things are important. One very important matter in fantasy and science fiction is world building. I believe that discussion of these issues merits a separate thread. We have drifted from the main point of this one. Speaking of drifting from the main point, that matter merits a separate post.
  3. Basically, your post is an exercise in deck stacking. 1.Daenerys was the ruler of Meereen. She is a Targaryen. She and her people have the experience of ruling. Why would the. people of the 7K, aristocrats or commoners, care that the dragon queen hasn't been on the island for 300 years, or that she has a deficit of ministers, ladies in waiting, etc.? It is quite obvious that she does have educated people advising her. Tyrion is one example, Missandei is another. She gains the loyalty of Jon Snow. She forms an alliance with Dorne and with the Reach. Later, there are "problems" with the latter two kingdoms. The supposed "problems," however, are about as unconvincing as anything in Season 7. The entire leadership of Dorne comes to Dragonstone for no particular reason. Why wouldn't they leave at least one person at home to organize their forces for the coming war? Who was in charge? Perhaps Random Peasant 147? If so, then why can't Random Peasant 147 still keep running things after Euron's surprise attack? Even more to the point, why don't the formerly intelligent Targaryen people try to communicate further with Dorne? The kingdom has suffered what--10 or 12 casualties maximum? And its is out of the war? Baloney. 2. The main thing here is that the dragon queen clearly does have a government, even if it is not as large and long lasting as you seem to require. You provide no evidence that size and longevity of a government would be matters of importance for anyone in the Seven Kingdoms. The so-called "queen" in KL has not received a pledge of fealty from anyone currently ruling any of the kingdoms. She has destroyed important institutions (not just, say, a single pope, but the papacy and the Vatican). To say that she has a Small Council is to stretch things beyond the breaking point. She is supposed to gain legitimacy from the fact her husband and sons were monarchs. However, she does not even call herself a Baratheon. Any reasonable person residing in the 7K would, at the very least, say that Borg Queen Brotherfucker has no more claim to the throne than does the young woman with the dragons. Also, it appears that the Borg queen will die without an heir. She claims to be pregnant. it's not certain that this is true. Even if true, it has only been stated in private. Essentially no one outside the Red Keep could presently use this info to decide between Dany & Cersei. 3. This is where the deck stacking truly stands out. Varys is a eunuch. You don't mention the fact that he was a member of Robert's Small Council. You also don't mention Barristan Selmy. He gave Daenerys advice, and I don't see why we should think she simply forgot all of it. Furthermore, the Small Council previously noted that Dany was advised by two capable military men, Barristan Selmy and Jorah Mormont. The Mother of Dragons had the backing of one of the most respected knights of the Kingsguard. This fact was acknowledged at a time when one of the princes of Dorne was on the council. It is perfectly reasonable to think that it is a known fact in at least parts of the 7K. Even if not well known, it could and should be advertised by half-way-intelligent Targaryen forces. You want to switch back and forth between the book and the TV show, using such switches only to your advantage. For example, you want to label Missandei as just a translator. She was more than that in the books. In #5 (See below), however, you want to judge whether or not D&D are guilty of plot holes by seeing what GRRM does later in the books. Even in the show, Missandei is more than a translator/interpreter, and Grey Worm is more than a soldier. The two of them argue strongly against Tyrion's policy of reaching an accommodation with the slavers. The two of them turn out to be right in their judgement. 4. There is no reason at all to presume that people in the Riverlands will be against Daenerys Targaryen. There is every reason for her to hope that she can rally the families of the victims of the Red Wedding to her side. Or, there would be every reason for this if the show runners would let the Targaryen forces act reasonably. As for the Vale, the leadership there now backs Jon, and Jon backs Daenerys. Dany shows poor judgement in her decision not to name an heir. However, this may not be a critical failing. As I noted earlier, it looks like we have another dragon rider in waiting. Actually, the fellow now known as Jon Snow won't be just an heir of Daenerys. He'll be number one in the line of succession. 5. At best, this would mean that GRRM was as guilty of the plot hole as D&D were. The failure of a potential ruler and her advisers to communicate with the subjects of the realm is an absurd mistake. These people were smart for six seasons. Now they are idiots. This is poor writing, whether done by a novelist, a screen writer, or anybody else.
  4. Yeah, it's a head banger, no doubt about it. Our beautiful and gracious queen is concerned about her subjects and her army. She is afraid they will not have enough food. Two or three days later-- Our beautiful and gracious queen is incinerating the grain that her people will need to get them through the winter. As to the main point, the reason for the battle. One possibility is that it provides good material for satire, something that the people from Saturday Night Live or Monty Python could put to use. One of my "favorite lines of the season" is spoken by Jaime Lannister. "Take cover!" This is a wonderful set up: Soldier 1: Take cover? Take bloody cover??!! Why, the man's a positive master of military tactics, isn't he? Look, here comes the flying pixy on her fire breathing monster, and general genius tells us to take cover. Soldier 2: Quick lads, everyone under these wooden wagons! Soldier 3: No, no, we should all hide in the tall grass! Soldier 1: Take bloody cover? We're being led by flipping morons. Show me some cover, oh general genius. I'll tell you where to take it, and what you can do with it when you get there! Soldier 2: I say, these savage fellows don't seem such bad chaps. Time to bend the knee, eh? Soldier 3: Quite so, I do suppose they know what "I yield" means, don't they?
  5. All right, the famous razor. I was wondering if it might not show up in this discussion. I'm glad it has. In one of the fine bits of dialogue in Westworld, Bernard Lowe tells Dr. Robert Ford that the problems in the park seem to be due to sabotage. “It’s the simplest solution.” Ford Replies: “Ah, Mr. Occam's razor. The problem, Bernard, is that what you and I do is so complicated. We practice witchcraft. We speak the right words. Then we create life itself... out of chaos. William of Occam was a 13th century monk. He can't help us now, Bernard. He would have us burned at the stake.” In a way, what we do is also extremely complicated. "We," in this case, however, are the fans, critics, posters on various threads...The world of Game of Thrones and the characters in it aren't all that complicated. Mr. Occam's razor is still quite handy. This is very much the case for the current thread. One can come up with all kinds of convoluted explanations as to why the lords of the Reach act in ignorance of their own history and against their own interest, why the definite hatred of Cersei in KL doesn't cause her significant problems, how it is that Daenerys and her advisers have become so stupid, and so on. Some of these explanations have a degree of plausibility. Some of them show creativity. However, trying to accept all of them is just too much of a burden. A simpler and vastly better explanation is available: poor writing.
  6. 1. Here you provide a fine example of how to miss the point. As I said, Daenerys wants to be queen, and her advisers want her to be queen. The fact that she cannot currently claim to have control of the kingdom is irrelevant. Stannis didn't control much more than Dragonstone when he sent out his letter. Aegon didn't have control when he sent forth his ravens to lords great and small. 2. Clearly false. Cersei can't claim to have solid control even of the Reach and the Riverlands. She certainly isn't monarch of the 7K. The fact that you are sitting on a throne doesn't make you a monarch. Has even one ruler of one kingdom sworn fealty to the "queen" in King's Landing? The Unsullied took CR. Did that make Daenerys Warden of the West? 3. I really would like to know who does these public opinion surveys for you. Is there some Westerosi polling service that the rest of us haven't heard about? How do you know that the people who receive her message will not be afraid of her? Sorry, but your statement here is ridiculous. Just about the entire basis for anti-Dany propaganda put forth by the Lannisters is fear. Are you actually trying to say that people will support Cersei because they fear, say, the Unsullied, but won't support Daenerys because they don't fear the Dothraki and the dragons? If you aren't trying to maintain something like that, then what is the actual nature of your argument? At any rate, Dany's letter would not have to emphasize threats. As I said, it should include things like the reasons why Cersei's rule is not legitimate. Aegon had a full court? And Daenerys Targaryen is currently living in an empty castle? I honestly don't know what your point is here. Do you have one? We read in The World of Ice and Fire: "Aegon made no reply. Instead he summoned his friends, bannermen, and principal allies to attend him on Dragonstone. Their numbers were small." This was just before the invasion. We also read that the original invasion force was small. It is extremely likely that Dany has more support in Westeros than Aegon did. She most definitely has a larger army. What does it mean then to say "They had a full court there. People loyal to them"? 4. Dany is not alone, and Dany did risk riding her dragon into battle. Three dragons is three more than anyone else has. Even two (her number now) is two more than anyone in the south has. The young queen's enemies can't be confident that there is not and will not be another rider. Indeed, by the end of Season 7, it looks like we have a very good candidate for a second rider. Jabul said: It is flat out ridiculous that Tyrion the Formerly Intelligent needs the recommendation of a red priestess before he tries to communicate with places like Winterfell. Tyrion could be a traitor, but I doubt it. More likely, his loyalties are still just a bit uncertain. It's hard to believe he was actively trying to help Cersei. We'll learn more in Season 8. Anyhow, the Imp's trustworthiness is not the most important thing in this case. No one tells Daenerys Targaryen to send messages to lords great and small--not Varys, not Olenna, not the Sand Snakes. Hell, the young woman who wants to rule should have been able to figure the matter out for herself. And then there is Missandei. Up until this season, she was intelligent. She wouldn't know much about Westerosi tradition, but she should be able to put two and two together. With people telling her queen how much the lords despise the Lannister pretender, it is only natural that the queen should communicate with these lords. The best explanation is the one that I have offered: a very large plot hole. The show runners arranged for the dragon queen and her team to suffer massive unexplained brain damage in the off season.
  7. You raise a worthwhile technical point, but that's the extent of it. If Daenerys wants to be queen, and if her advisers wish her to be queen, then they should be able to get around the problem. Indeed, the show indicates that they have already solved the technical prob. 1. It's not clear that Olenna and the Sand Snakes cannot bring ravens to Dragonstone which can fly to castles other than those in their lands. Certainly, Dany & co can give messages to the Dorne and Reach people. These messages can then be sent from Dorne and Highgarden. Also, the dragon queen can use the route through White Harbor that you mention. The lack of ravens that go to places other than the two kingdoms and the lack of a maester don't seem to be problems in "Stormborn." In that episode, the red woman tells Dany to communicate with Jon. Then-- DAENERYS: Very well. Send a raven north. Tell Jon Snow that his Queen invites him to come to Drangonstone...and bend the knee. No one says that there will be any difficulty with this. Then, in the next scene, we see Jon, Sansa and Davos reading the letter from Dragonstone. 2. You can assume that the necks of the ravens were broken. That doesn't prove their necks were broken. The central point, however, is not about ravens. Riders can be used instead. The main thing is that a monarch communicates with his or her kingdom. He or she doesn't just talk to a few houses or kingdoms that have good armies. That is what Stannis did. That, according to the back story in The World of Ice & Fire, is what Aegon did: "On the seventh day, a cloud of ravens burst from the towers of Dragonstone to bring Aegon's word to the Seven Kingdoms of Westeros. To the seven kings they flew, to the Citadel of Oldtown, to lords both great and small." It is flat out ridiculous that Tyrion the Formerly Intelligent needs the recommendation of a red priestess before he tries to communicate with places like Winterfell. I don't care if Flash Gordon or Ming the Fucking Merciless is in charge of the North. You send a message to Winterfell. And you send messages to lots of other places. You state your case. You show that Cersei has no legitimacy. You say that all true leaders will swear their allegiance to you.
  8. 1. A reasonable response. I could have been more precise in my earlier post. I wouldn't maintain that the decline in quality has been linear. Perhaps 7 is better than 5. I'm not sufficiently motivated to go back and do a point-by-point analysis of the two seasons. I don't think 7 is comparable in quality to the earlier material. See my response to Beardy. 2 Oh, there's an explanation. It just isn't worth much. The betrayal is wildly implausible, especially since it appears that just about all the Tyrell bannermen (or at least all of them between Olenna and KL) participated. The Queen of Thorns has plenty of reason to get away. She has been intent on revenge for some time now. She wouldn't want her enemies to acquire all her gold. She wouldn't trust the Lannisters to give her an easy death. Finally, that "Did we fight well?" line is still a howler. It's like the coach asking if his boys played well in the big game. I understand your point of view. I agree about the first few seasons. I'd be more positive in my grading of them than you are. It appears that we are on the same page when it comes to a desire to see well-constructed universes, with interesting characters who act in accord with the laws of said universes. I haven't watched "Inside the Episode." maybe I'll take a look.
  9. You make some good points. I can only respond for myself, not for Beardy the Wildling and others who find things in Game of Thrones unacceptable. I am a longtime reader of fantasy and science fiction. I also watch f&sf movies and TV shows. I like GoT. Averaging things out over 7 seasons, I'd say it is better than Star Wars (fantasy with robots and spaceships) and most of Star Trek (basically science fiction). It's often comparable in quality to the Lord of the Rings movies (fantasy). There is much to admire in the HBO series--good acting, engaging scenery and special effects, etc. The dialogue is mostly good, sometimes very good. However, I have certain standards when it comes to fantasy. That's why I started my first post on this thread with a quote from Ursula K. Le Guin, one of the best writers the genre has ever produced. Once you set the rules of your universe, you are required to follow them. The show runners of GoT fall down here. The quality of the writing has declined over time. Posters on this thread have given multiple examples. I'll provide one more: In "The Queen's Justice," Lady Olenna looks down from her balcony and sees an incredibly improbable army of unfriendly drones with lion banners approaching. Jaime and others are leading the mighty host. It took the leaders, what, two or three weeks to get from King's Landing to Olenna's castle? How the hell did this formerly intelligent woman manage to be taken by surprise? Even if surprised, why doesn't she get out of there and take her gold with her? Then we have the scene with the Kingslayer and the Queen of Thorns. Well acted, no doubt about that. However, it has a line that is an absolute howler. Olenna asks "Did we fight well?" WTF??? Was someone leading the defense? If so, who? Imagine that you are watching a movie about the history of Notre Dame football. At one point, Knute Rockne asks someone if his team played well against Army. That is beyond goofy.
  10. Absolutely. The former Spider is now the Castrated Flea. The man's ability to gather useful information is on a par with his reproductive ability. Right on the money. "Monster Squad." I like it. If I use it in future posts, I'll be sure to give you credit. "Zombie Mountain" is pretty good too. There is so much stuff that is just not within the bounds of believability. Why would so many high lords, lesser lords, maesters, etc. find the current "leadership" of King's Landing acceptable? In the episode entitled "Oathbreaker," we had this exchange: CERSEI: And seeing as you cannot make us leave, we best get on with it. KEVAN: No, we cannot make you leave. And you cannot make us stay. Not unless you're gonna have that thing murder us all. Maybe Lord Kevan should have become king. He, at least, has some perception of the way things are going. On the money again. One couldn't ask for a better summary.
  11. 1. I believe that the fleet carrying the Unsullied to CR also took Olenna back home, didn't it? The ironborn fleet was attacked on its way to Dorne. 2. Concerning dragons and visits, see my reply to MinscS2 below. //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// MinscS2 said (in bold): 10 hours ago, SirArthur said: ... 1. But she must have a greater plan. And that is what I mean when I say she doesn't care. ... Why is the Vale ignored ? Can't she meet with Sweetrobin ? With Littlefinger ? Why not take a Dragon and make a visit in the North. Everybody important seems to be in Winterfell. Is she still on the "they killed my father they must all burn" trip ? How about blocking the Blackwater or any important bridge ? Or any action that brings her control over movement ? Her goal was Kings Landing. Her enemies where those loyal to Cersei. The North and the Vale are enemies of the crown and far away from King's Landing. They weren't hostile to her, and before she lost her Westerosi allies she didn't really need either of them. However, she does summon Jon in episode 2, before she lost all of her other allies, so she does make an attempt to gain more allies in Westeros. How about a visit to Oldtown ? Or Rosby ? The Dragons seem to be fast enough for Jon Snow across the wall. Yes I know she is not allowed to move. Tyrion forbids it. Well then Tyrion ... how about a visit to Sweetrobin ? Oh right. Maybe not. What's the longterm plan if the hand can't visit the boy because he fears to fly ? ... But why would she visit those places? She didn't need more allies until episode 3, and she doesn't know if they will be loyal to her or not. Better to focus on the allies she had (until episode 3 that is) and the task at hand. ... //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// First of all, ravens people, ravens. You know, those black birds that are used to send messages? People in Westeros have been using them for a very long time. It doesn't take much effort to send out ravens. It is not a distraction of any significance. Dany, Varys, and Tyrion have some knowledge of this, but it seems to slip their minds at critical times. There is no need to use dragons. You can send messages to lots of locations with much smaller flying animals. And why would Daenerys do this? Well, she and her advisers claim she wants to be queen, right? A queen communicates with those whom she wishes to rule. She doesn't just talk to a few people with good armies and ignore everybody else. This is another example of my objection to "stupid pills." Or maybe an alternate explanation is available. All the drinking the Imp did during the first 6 seasons has begun to affect his brain. I suppose he could also have indulged in some binging and chugging with his liege and her other advisers during the off season--got them to catch up with him in the area of brain damage. Or one could just accept the most likely explanation for this and several other problems: Poor writing. If you wish to be a monarch, you act like one. Stannis Baratheon, for all his faults, understood this. You write to your subjects. You declare yourself the true ruler. You say why this is the case. And you declare that all true men should swear fealty to you. This is common sense. It is also Westerosi history. It also didn't happen in Season 7. I find it massively implausible that Dany and her advisers would act the way they do during this past season. A similar problem is the way that the Queen of Thorns changed from one of the sharpest minds in Westoros to one of the dumbest broads in the world in the course of less than one season. I'll have more to say on these matters tomorrow.
  12. 1. Is that supposed to be a serious question? Do you not know who Barristan Selmy was? Why couldn't reports of his devotion to the dragon queen have reached Westeros? Are you not familiar with the fact that huge numbers of former slaves love her? Reports of their devotion could also have come to the western continent. The fact the queen did some bad things and that some people in Essos hate her cannot rationally be used as proof that no good news about her would have traveled west. And then there is Missandei, and there are the Unsullied. You are familiar with them, aren't you? They aren't just rumors. They are actually now in Westeros. They can talk to people. They will have only good things to say about their queen. 2. How do you know that the Westerosi only think of her as the mad queen's daughter? Have you taken a poll of the population? 3. So? If they neither love her nor hate her, trust her nor distrust her, respect her or disrespect her, then there is no reason why at least some lords wouldn't send representatives to talk to her. She sure as hell is powerful I think by now you can see I don't mind repeating myself-- Stupid pills. A severe overdose of stupid pills. Daenerys and her advisers should absolutely have done a better job of communicating. Even without said communication, however, lords concerned about their wealth, their lands, and their lives should have reached out to this woman with the huge army and the three dragons. 4. Who, besides you and the slavers, links these things so closely? Do you have any evidence at all that some guys working the docks in, say, King's Landing or White Harbor would hear stories from the east and make these connections?
  13. 1. First of all, it's not primarily a question of who believes what. There are Targ supporters in Westeros. Robert Baratheon himself acknowledged this. The fact that some houses supported Aerys indicates this; I see know reason why this support would have just vanished in the intervening years. The fact that Barristan traveled a long distance to pledge fealty to Daenerys shows this. The quote you provide shows that Daenerys doesn't buy into all the "secret toasts" and "cry out for their queen" stuff. This could very well mean that she knows the stuff fed to Viserys was seriously exaggerated. It doesn't mean she thinks there is no support for her. Also note that she doesn't deny that the lords of Westeros despise Cersei. If it comes to a choice, the dragon queen could still be the better one. Even someone who believed that the Pentosi cheese monger told only lies to Viserys would see that. 2. So? This does not harm my case. It supports it. I don't think that she expected people to just show up at her castle. However, she, or Varys, or Tyrion should have at least sent Ravens to as many important houses as possible. This is common procedure. It was, for example, what Stannis did when he made his claim. The thrust of my argument is not that Daenerys Targaryen is a great leader. It is that Season 7 shows too many characters acting out of character. Your point #2 simply indicates that D&D fed "stupid pills" to Dany along with her advisers.
  14. It is worthwhile to go back to my assertion in my original post on this thread: "In Season 7, the whole thing turns into a ridiculous mishmash, with characters, both high-born and low-born, acting absurdly out of character. People not only forget or ignore their values, they often act directly against their self interest. Also, several main players seem to have occupied the off season by overdosing on some kind of "stupid pills." Their IQ has dropped about 60 or 70 points. This is particularly true of anti-Cersei characters like Varys and Tyrion. As many posters on different threads have noted, the heavy hand of the writers can't be missed here." There is nothing on this thread, including the above-quoted post, that seriously challenges this assertion. Much supports the assertion. 1. The ranger saw a lot more than one little wight,and his terror is no more relevant to people's feelings about Dany than it is to people's hatred of Cersei and her creepy adviser and the thing (undead knight, zombie, whatever) that guards her. 2. In the first place, this is not fully true. Some people bent the knee quickly. Dany incinerated two people.Then the remaining men knelt to her.There is no evidence she will treat these men badly.There are strong indications, based on her history with her followers, that she will treat them well.This easily falls in line with how other winners of wars in Martin's universe act. Nothing in the scene in any way shows that Westerosi lords in general would be terrified of going to Dragonstone for a talk. 3. Nothing in the scene in any way indicates that someone sent to Dragonstone would be any more afraid than someone sent to KL to talk to a "queen" who blows up a sept, killing her own relatives and a great many others. 4. It is extremely likely that Tyrion and Varys had better info than Jon did. After all, they were in Essos (Pentos, I believe). This was before Season 7, so both men were still highly intelligent. They had not undergone the incredible loss of brain power that this season has inexplicably cursed them with. Indeed, Varys was supposed to be the guy who knew what you were going to have for breakfast before your servant even came home from the market with the food. The Spider convinces the Imp that the two of them should undertake a long journey to meet with the Mother of Dragons. Your later statements about Jorah, Tyrion, and Varys are a mishmash of error and speculation. You can claim that Varys was going to observe Daenerys first, but there is nothing in the show which confirms this. Furthermore, the Spider had already formed a very positive opinion of the young queen. He praises her highly to Tyrion. Jorah is a man from Westeros. He not only met with Dany, he fell in love with her. The birth of the dragons strengthened his devotion,. Now he is in Westeros. He can give testimony in her favor. He is not the most credible witness. He can't be as bad, however, as Ser Creep of the Torture Chamber and various Lannister apologists who might try to defend the Red Wedding. 5. Why would it matter on which side of the Wall the wights and Walkers were seen? Lots of people have seen them now. If Daenerys had competent advisers, some very important people would have seen a functioning wight. We'll take it as given that the numb skull plan to capture one of the things went off as presented. Why show it to that back-stabbing "queen" down in King's Landing? Much better audiences are available. Competent advisers should be able to arrange a showing to a group of lords and maesters. Then lots of people in Westeros would know about the threat from the North. The prophecy about the Prince That Was Promised is not limited to the worshipers of the Lord of Light. Others know of it. One more time I'll go back to my main points from my original post. It would be easy for Dany's friends and admirers to spread the word about the prophecy if the show runners had not arranged for the imbibing of "stupid pills" in the off season. Even if there were no such organized PR, it is possible that rumors could have come from the eastern continent. Why wouldn't these rumors have gained as much traction in the west as negative rumors about the dragon queen? 6. I stated that people from Westeros met with Dany.You claim this is wrong because Varys met with them before they went to see Dany.This is a complete non sequitur. The fact that there was a prior meeting with an adviser does not show that the people at said meeting didn't go to the second meeting. At any rate, your whole point has nothing to do with the main issue. Varys could meet with other lords.There's no reason to say that he wouldn't be just as persuasive to lords of, say, the Riverlands as he was to Olenna. I'm having trouble with the system. Things won't print correctly. I'll stop for now. I'll deal with other matters in a later post.
  15. There is no problem here at all. Everyone in the fleet was an enemy. Right. And everyone in the Lannister/Reach column is an enemy. Bring the dragons in fast and give the column overwhelming blasts of fire. As likely as not, you would destroy or at least disable the ballista. It is overwhelmingly likely that you would create utter chaos in the enemy force. They probably wouldn't even be able to form into a battle line. Then you could bring in the cavalry. The main reason things like this don't happen is that the show runners don't want them to.