James Fenimore Cooper XXII

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About James Fenimore Cooper XXII

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  1. I have been rereading some of the old topics (listed below) on this forum as well as all of the released print materials. I paid particular attention to the topics "All the main characters will die" and "Do you think any Frey will survive?". I believe most of the fans are failing to grasp what Mr. George R. R. Martin is saying. So let me start with Aenarion's posting "Do you think any Frey will survive?" and then move onto to Annalee's "All the main characters will die." The purpose of this plot is not so the Starks can get what they think is justice. The Starks are as much wrong as the next family over. I know this won't sell to the Stark fans but that is my opinion of where I think the story is headed. The Freys are going to die but not because of some comeuppance for their part in the red wedding. They will die by dint of being in the wrong place. Their Twins is in the path of winter and the white walkers. Winter kills and leaves only the few to keep the species going. I will come back to this later because this part of the nature that winter kills is important to the plot. What has been going on in the plot to this point? The plot has nicely done the job of setting up very understandable reasons why these families should hate one another. The Freys hate the Starks for understandable of reasons, Robb dumped on them. The Starks hate the Freys and the Boltons for understandable reasons, the red wedding massacre. The Targaryens hate the Lannisters for good reason, they killed Aerys, Rhaenys, and Elia. The Martells hate the Lannisters for the same. The Starks hate the Lannisters. The Starks hate Theon Greyjoy. The Starks hate the Targaryens. The Targaryens hate the Starks and the Baratheons for killing Rhaegar. The Baratheons hate the Targaryens because Aerys killed Brandon and Rickard. The Lannisters will go batshit crazy with rage when they learn the Tyrells killed Joffrey. The civilized parts of Westeros hate the free folk for their raiding ways. The free folk hate the kneelers for taking freedom away. The religions want to promote themselves at the expense of competing beliefs. All of these people have good reasons to hate the people that they do hate. Our author has done a good of job setting them up against each other. Families vs. families, religion vs. religion, individual vs. individual, culture vs. other culture, male vs female. So there you have it, he set them up to oppose the other for reasons that are justifiable to them. Most of you are with me so far but I will lose you in the next paragraph. This story is not about getting justice for the sins of one family against another. It's about setting those differences aside in the interest of survival. That means Arya, Doran, Lady Stoneheart, Cersei, and Ramsay will have to go. They are the worst offenders and impedes any chance of cooperation. L-S and Arya are messed up with thoughts of revenge. What is happening in the west is an environmental disaster in the making. The opposite of global warming. The White walkers are like communicable disease that turn humans into zombies. The author can do something really bizarre and make peace possible with the others that will require extreme sacrifice on each and every human in the land. Which we know is possible. Craster did it. The author's message is this. All grievances should be set aside in the interest of survival. The parties do not have to like one another and forgiveness is out of the realm of possibility but discipline can allow these parties to work together for the common good. Here's the bad part. The author wants to send a message. He doesn't claim to have all of the answers because life is complex in his fiction and in real life. He won't claim to know it all. But his point is, the real world is facing enormous problems and unless people can set aside their differences, things will only get worse. He wants to generate discussion and lead people to make better decisions. It's been said and it's been written, Mr. Martin is harsh but practical. He knows another story with a happy ending is not going to serve to deliver his message. I predict that the people of Westeros will continue to behave as they have been doing and most of the people will be wiped out. They will continue to put grievance, pride, and emotional attachment ahead of cooperation. Their prized castles will crumble. Lords and ladies will freeze to death in their castles as easily as the poor man in his hovel. Feudalism will end because civilization will be turned backwards to the primitive. The Starks will have no better chance of surviving than the Freys and they will be just as responsible for the mess as the Boltons and the Lannisters. Everyone will be partly to blame. All the fighting and bitching between the families will continue until it's too late. It's not easy to set aside the wedding massacre but if it were easy then everybody would choose peace and cooperation. It's hard to forgive a man who broke his promise to marry your daughter after your family fought for him and lost its first born son in his service. It's not easy to reswear fealty to a king that holds your rather in prison and attacked your mother's family but if Robb had done it how better off the north would be today. Jon Arryn just couldn't put his honor aside and sacrifice Robert and Ned but chose instead to start a rebellion that killed tens of thousands of people that had nothing to do with the feud between the Targaryens and the Starks. It's not easy to send two boys that you love to execution for the possible crimes of their families but that was preferable to sending tens of thousands of men to fight in a war. Jon loved Arya and he wanted to rescue her from Ramsay but it was the wrong course of action. Jon knew as well as anyone what is coming for them and he should have been thinking with his head instead of his heart. He should have made peace with the Boltons no matter what the cost to the Stark family. Keeping as many men alive to defend the north should have been Jon's priority instead of Arya. He should have counseled Stannis to make peace with the Lannisters and take the Black. There are only two armed conflict that helped more people than it harmed and the ones that died, died for a good cause. The much maligned Edmure Tully's call to arms to defend his people against the raiding army of the Lannisters. Daenerys Targaryen's war against slavery in Essos. The first is pure self-defense and the second is the fight to rescue slaves from their sadistic owners. Winter is when people die. Count on it. Most of the people in Westeros will die and only a few will survive.
  2. Only a few of the Freys will survive. But don't take this to mean that it's because the plot calls for the Starks to have justice. Those who think this story is about getting justice for the Starks are mistaken. The Starks are just as much wrong as the next family over. The Freys will die because their land is in the path of winter and the white walkers. Simply put, that is how they will die. I will say again, this story is not about giving the Starks a moral upper hand. Most of the remaining Starks will die too. That's what winter does. It kills and leaves only a few to keep the species going.
  3. If I recall, the Freys got the better of the Manderlys at Winterfell. I wouldn't call the Rivermen weak.
  4. Killing Jaime would send Tywin stark raving mad. He should keep Jaime hostage and bargain for a safe retreat to the north. But I get your point. How much worse could things get for Robb. I mean he was killed and beheaded. Greywind was killed. His mom was killed. Let's take your scenario. Robb kills Jaime. The good: Karstark is loyal. Tywin kills Sansa and Arya. Not such a great loss in military terms. Killing Jaime might force Tywin to make a bad move. One less Lannister in the world is a good thing.
  5. These are the same reasons why I don't like her chapters. But to tell the truth, I don't like Arya so that makes me automatically turned off to her chapters. What it all comes down to is how you feel about that character. We like reading the pages devoted to the people we like. The two Starks that are interesting are the ones who don't have a p.o.v. chapter. That's Robb and Rickon. How much better the northern chapters would be if the pov person was other than Jon. I would have liked a Petyr B. pov in place of Sansa at King's Landing.
  6. I don't want to get into a long philosophical debate on this but I seem to recall the renowned Stephen Hawking commenting that free will doesn't really exist. The existence of free will make the story better.
  7. Many thanks.
  8. Yes if Roose follows the mold of the hunter who keeps trophies of the animals he killed. Robb had a holier-than-thou attitude. Yeah they have quick tempers.
  9. Summerhall is proof that king's blood doesn't have any inherent powers. It's just some people happen to have the ability for magic. The warlock that took Varys' manhood had magic and it's not his genitals that did the trick. It's like the saying "what works for me may not work for you" but the untalented refuse to accept their limitations.
  10. It's debatable if a line of succession still exists after Robert took over. Renly didn't think such things mattered. Westeros is no longer a land governed by laws because Robert destroyed the law when he rebelled. But for our discussion let's say the old law is back in effect. Jon is indeed not in the line of succession for the reasons brought out by Noble Lothar Frey. Just one of the items on the list is enough to keep Jon out of the line of succession.
  11. All examples of fine leadership. The best act of leadership, in my opinion, is Dany's rescue of the unsullied from their masters in Astapor. Honorable mention: Tyrion took charge when Penny and Jorah got dysfunctional outside Meereen. He was thinking for the three of them and got everybody out of trouble. Small in scope but still good leadership.
  12. All I know is this. I will stop reading when or if my favorite character dies. There is nothing unique or groundbreaking about this story that would make me continue to follow it after the demise of the character that I have followed for twenty years. IMO, this author is too preoccupied with trying to create something different, to be different when in reality it is impossible to come up with something unique due to the thousands of books published each year. Everything that will be said has been said before. Everything that will be written has been written before. Heroes have died before. That's not a new concept in story writing. I watched a movie last week called "The New Daughter" and everybody died at the end including Kevin Costner. Children died. The dad blew up his daughter rather let her turn into one of the creatures. I read "Where the Red Fern Grows" as a kid and the hounds died. I don't see the point to going out of the way to make a the story break trope. Just my $.02.
  13. Wolf's Blood and the characteristics of the Starks. Quick of Temper, Slow of Mind. Quick to Anger, Slow to Think. Freakishly long faces. Ex. Arya Horseface. Not attractive. Very emotional. Eddard was the exception. Touchy nature, quick to take offense. Very much a trait of Jon.
  14. The Targaryens accomplished a lot and gave the realm the stability that the common folk needed for three hundred years. While not perfect, they were a vast improvement over the Starks, Durrandons, Hoares, Gardeners, and Lannisters. Uniform Law, or at least more uniform than before. Good Queen Allysanne stopped the Northern barbaric practice of the Lord's right to the first night. Youtuber Preston Jacobs theorized that those northern savages were practicing baby donations to the Others. Highly likely, since we know that was how Mr. Craster bought his life from the WW. We also know that the Starks were giving blood offerings to the trees. More peace and stability than was possible than before. When you have constant quarreling between the tiny kingdoms the small folk are never given peace. United the kingdom together. A united kingdom is stronger than a divided kingdom. Only someone coming in from the outside can rule effectively. That family will have to be seen as possessing superiority, which makes it easier for the nobility to accept their right to rule. The Targaryens were the blood of Old Valyria, the greatest empire that has ever existed. The Targaryens are beautiful and physical perfection. They were athletic. They rode dragons. They were different and so it was easier for the nobles to accept the Targaryens' right to rule over them. Anyone else and that person is just one of them. An Arryn is no better than a Lannister, so why would a lion accept the bird to rule over him. A dragon is far superior to a lion, a direwolf, and to a damned trout, for the love of god! An outside force coming in is more likely to rule without bias. The Targaryens checked Volantene ambition to bring back a new empire. Who knows what could have happened if Volantis had gone on unchecked to become powerful. Volantis is a slaving state. They could have set their eyes on Westeros to expand their business.
  15. Queen Daenerys is the younger, more beautiful queen that will throw Cersei down. Agree completely. I have my doubts that the Valonqar will show up. Cersei will die by childbirth. Tyrion is already a father-killer and a fiancee killer. Well, exfiancee in Shay's mind. But you get the point.