Rufus Snow

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  1. Now, that is not a bad idea, one I hadn't come across before. Maybe LF had hidden something there and he wanted it back, and once he'd got it, what the hell's he gonna do with some ugly tapestries he doesn't need any more? Fob 'em off on Nestor, perhaps.... Anyway, I'm just short of this section in my current re-read, so I'll have to keep my eyes peeled for further clues...
  2. Yep, this is all true, but that was the only real 'data point' I could connect it too. Anyway, I've been mulling it over whilst doing some washing up, and came back for this: 1) we don't know how old the tapestries are 2) we don't know who commissioned them 3) we don't know what they show 4) we don't know if they are generic 'hunting is cool' type pictures, or specific 'this was a great hunt we all went on' sort of images So, I might imagine - and this is pure speculation and grasping at straws, I admit - perhaps one of them shows a specific known event, with someone present who was either supposed to be somewhere else, or already dead or something along those lines. I've racked my brains and come up blank on that, but does anyone here recall any famous hunting deaths/accidents, or particularly famous hunts? What I'm grasping at is the scenes might record or disprove an alibi of someone in the past??? I don't know for myself, but hope if I chuck the idea out it might spark someone off. (Oh, and I really don't want to hear about 'stitches in time' and one of the scenes being 'Needleshopped' to show Lancel with the strongwine )
  3. Interesting discussion on the tapestries, and being that they're originally Robert's, could they be showing generations of black-haired Baratheons out hunting? Though that cat is well and truly out of the bag by now....
  4. OK, that would make more sense, if she was just wearing a face without a tongue, and of course part of the training might involve 'losing' the tongue in a similar manner to Arya 'losing' her eyes for a while. As for Arya, I suspect she'll die a maid, though that's only based on the KM's explanation of 'women giving life, not death' and that they can't do both - which on the face of it sounds like BS, but could be a foreshadowing.
  5. @oakbloodthesap I'm afraid I pretty much disagree with everything you wrote, but will tell you why. I don't accept the 'sack and rape' scenario. The Crag surrendered, and that usually comes with terms - usually of the safe conduct and honourable behaviour type on the part of the besiegers. That Jeyne 'nursed' Robb doesn't imply that she was the clinical lead - the maester would have done the real work, whilst Jeyne just sat beside the bed and simpered over this handsome young Lord. (But why would she not be capable? She is descended, on her mother's Spicer side, from Maggy the Frog after all...) From the hints we get later on in the story Tywin seemed quite pleased about events at the Crag, and I very much suspect that what happened behind the scenes was that he told the Westerlings (most notably Jeyne's mother) something very similar to what Qhorin Halfhand told Jon Snow - infiltrate the enemy court and balk at nothing. This could have been fixed via ravens before the fall of the castle, which I suspect is one of the 'important letters' had been sending when Tywin told Tyrion that 'some battles are won with quills rather than swords'. Tywin's target was to find a way to undermine the Stark-Frey alliance, and the best way to do that is to interfere with the betrothal. He'd know the Westerlings had an attractive, unmarried daughter. So Mama Westerling shoved Jeyne into a pressure cooker alongside this handsome young Lord, and stepped back to let teenage hormones work their magic. I'm pretty sure Jeyne was manipulated, but her affection for Robb was genuine all the same. Once the deed was done, then Robb's sense of honour meant he had to do the right thing by the maid he'd deflowered. Bingo, the Frey alliance is shot to pieces before Robb could tie up his breeches... It's very noticeable that the pair didn't conceive a child, despite all the 'fertility' potions Mama Westerling was pouring down Jeyne's neck - that's because they weren't fertility potions at all, but the exact opposite (no doubt learned from Granny Maggy). The presence of a Stark heir would royally screw up the plan hatched with Tywin. And that's pretty much confirmed when Jaime turns up later in the story. We are given plenty of clues that the Westerlings - and Spicers especially - do not pass Grey Wind's sniff test, but love is blind. Cat sees it; Robb does not, he even turns away from his direwolf in favour of his wife. He literally 'forgets himself', not a good sign given that the north remembers. EDIT to add: the Maggy the Frog - Spicer lineage bears some resemblance to the real life incidence of the Woodville women marrying into the English royal family by 'bewitchment' during the Wars of the Roses, due to alleged magical abilities of her mother Jacquetta of Luxembourg, who claimed descent herself from a water goddess. Elizabeth's marriage broke a major alliance and the Earl of Warwick (the Kingmaker) changed sides from York to Lancaster...
  6. Glad I'm not the only one who thinks the Daynes are significant beyond their scanty appearances And even so, I had overlooked the bolded bit above, so thanks for throwing that into the pot. I'm really struggling for their House Words, though, and most of my thoughts around that keep circling around Ned taking Dawn back to Starfall, and the otherwise unlikely affection between the two Houses. For one thing, looking across ASoIaF and AWoIaF there's a long tradition of capturing the swords of other families - the Royces taking Lady Forlorn and then the Corbrays taking it back, and ... oh, my mind's gone blank, but that Red Ironman something-or-other with his captured VS blade... it just seems really rare to give one back voluntarily, is my point. So my guessing at their words are along the lines of 'Summer is coming', 'After the night, the dawn', or 'The darkest hour falls before dawn'.... but yeah, it's all guesswork, I admit, with the third one being my favourite so far....
  7. OK, thanks for that... so it's basically a reference to the Faith. My opinion of Renly has just dropped a notch
  8. Maybe that's the point? Trying things over and over until it finally 'works'? Now, who is 'trying' and what 'works' might mean is a whole new kettle of fish....
  9. You have to be careful with symbolism, as it is always contingent A symbol has meaning in the same way a word has meaning - it is a social construct, and people with different social orientations will have different meanings. In Westeros, the rainbow is mostly associated with the Faith - to them, the rainbow means 'seven', rather than 'many colours'. In English, 'red' is a colour, in Spanish it is a network. To Renly, maybe the rainbow has the same significance it has to the LGBT community in our world. Does anyone really believe Renly was a particularly pious guy? We can't take a symbol from one culture, see it in another, and assume it has the same meaning - it might, but more often it doesn't. We see this over and over again in our own world - raise your palm to someone in one place, it means 'give me five', in another place it means 'fuck off away from me, you have the evil eye'. Similarly, a swastika has very different meanings in ancient Rome, 1930's Germany, and the Hindu faith. For symbols to have meaning, there needs to be an agreement between the parties that there is a meaning, and what that meaning is. There's some very interesting syncretism in this thread, but much of it involves making equivalences across cultural or religious boundaries that really need to be questioned.
  10. Now, I'm not suggesting that the Dusky Woman is not of the FM, it's a possibility, I grant, but the quote from the kindly man does not suggest FMs have their tongues cut out. I seem to recall 'Jaqen H'ghar' talking quite a lot, and all the other FMs are quite capable of saying 'I know this man'. All the kindly man is saying is that every part of you must serve the MFG. If you wish to connect Him 'taking' the tongue to the Dusky Woman being an FM, then you'd also have to accept he takes the other parts too. An assassin who lacks ears, nose, tongue, sad grey eyes, hands, feet, arms, legs, and private parts is really on an uphill struggle for even a single hit. So on the evidence that the Dusky Woman still has arms, hands, legs and private parts at the very least we can assume she is NOT the FM who killed Balon. Unless your post is just a wind-up, of course....
  11. Words should be weighed, not counted. How many zo Loraqs were Rhaegar's best friend? How many zo Loraqs served in Aerys' kingsguard? How many zo Loraqs bear storied swords with a heritage running back to the Age of Heroes, with a legend rich in resonances and imagery suggestive of the Dawn war? How many zo Loraqs run with the Brotherhood Without Banners? How many zo Loraqs are even rumoured to be mother of Ned Stark's bastard? How many zo Loraqs are plotting to overthrow the king on the Iron Throne in favour of his sister? Which zo Loraq is it that Jaime Lannister was so desperate to become? Which zo Loraq is the best swordsman the realm has ever known? Which zo Loraq is called the most dangerous man in any of the Seven Kingdoms? Which zo Loraq haunts the dreams of any of the major characters in the tale? The Daynes might get few mentions, that doesn't make them unimportant in how the story unfolds. They punch far above their word count.
  12. Well, between finishing ADwD the first time and going back to the start of AGoT, I think I stopped to make a cup of coffee....
  13. Aye, there's the rub - I've not been waiting half so long as most people here, and I'm already going crazy Just glad I've got some folk that understand my strange obsession, even if we don't all go down the same rabbitholes....
  14. Some good delving in this thread - I'd never considered Brienne in this light before, but it does make sense. Especially taking the 'Evenstar' connection to Venus and all the associated imagery. Venus is also the Morning Star, its orbit means it can only be seen when the sun is below the horizon - sometimes before dawn and sometimes after sunset. One extra element to pitch into the mix, especially in light (sorry, bad pun) of Cersei being cast as the sun: the seat of House Tarth is Evenfall - another way to say 'sunset'.
  15. Ok, I'll bite Just to add some more information: The two ships in question were hundreds, so quite sizeable - probably much bigger than the river galleys of the Riverlands - they were also ocean-going vessels, which tend to draw more water than river vessels. Now compare: We know most longships are smaller than the galleys - Theon's shipped 50 oars, for instance, and his thoughts indicated it was quite a good size. So, on the broadest river in the Realm, sea-going vessels will go barely along a tenth of its length, and to go any further requires smaller boats, of notably shallow draught. But then Tyrion tells us: So perhaps a sea-going galley could get further up the Blackwater, after all, but I doubt the tributary is any more navigable than the Mander. To be forced to leave the wagons behind, I doubt it would need to be much above 6 foot deep - this is definitely not enough for a galley, though a longship might cope. Now to the 'why' and 'what' of it. Even if the ships could manage the journey into the God's Eye (which i seriously doubt from the above), how welcome would they be in the home of the Green Men on ships bearing the banners of the Fiery God, especially after Mel burned the godswood at Storm's End? There would be no common cause, more likely animosity. As for the fleeing smallfolk, they're more likely to have fled to King's Landing down the river - all the other smallfolk headed that way, and at least with boats, these fisherfolk could avoid the dangers of the King's Road. For my money it's more likely that the crews did a bit of piracy and either got bored and tried to sneak back out - after all, the Blackwater is very wide near KL, and the chain would have been removed eventually, and most of the royal fleet was sunk as well - or else they took a serious liking to pillage and were amongst those bands of 'broken men' harrowing the Riverlands. I doubt they'd head to Storm's End - as far as they knew, Stannis' cause was lost after the Battle of the Blackwater, it's a bloody long way to walk, and they'd have to skirt round KL and maybe go through the burnt out Kingswood with nothing left to forage on the way. So all in all, I think they broke and disbanded.