Eponine

I read the list of books/series in the pinned recommendations thread about 10 years ago. I read every standalone cover to cover and at least the first book in every series. I went back through and separated them into groups of books I liked/loved (or at least was happy to have read), books I hated, books I was meh about, books I completely forgot, and books I wanted to read again. I didn't look up old ratings and reviews for most of them so this is mainly based on memory. There were 51 books I liked/loved + 10 I wanted to read again, by far the biggest group. If it weren't, it would be in question whether I actually liked SFF, right? They are all books that I would recommend to someone who liked that sort of book. There were 10 books I was meh about. Several of them were classics or fan favorites, and I think my meh feelings were partly inspired by not finding them The Greatest Thing Ever (hello, Dune). If I'd had no expectations, I probably would have enjoyed them more. There were 12 books that I hated, and I still feel pretty strongly about them! I used to spend a lot of time here arguing about them and perhaps the main difference after 10 years is that I'm probably not going to spend my time doing that anymore unless you ask me about The Stand. And there were 18 books of which I have zero memory. If you tortured me, I could not tell you a single thing about Mythago Wood. I couldn't tell you the setting, name a single character, or explain a single plot point. More embarrassingly, I bought Invisible Cities a few years ago thinking I'd be reading it for the first time, but that's clearly not true. (I still haven't re-read it and although I do know the general form it takes, I don't actually remember anything about it. I have trouble remembering anything about older space opera except there was some kind of trouble in space. The 10 re-reads are as follows: The Book of the New Sun – Gene Wolfe China Mountain Zhang – Maureen McHugh The Chronicles of Amber – Roger Zelazny The Dispossessed – Ursula K. Le Guin The Iron Dragon's Daughter – Michael Swanwick Little, Big – John Crowley Only Forward – Michael Marshall Smith Otherland – Tad Williams Permutation City – Greg Egan Shardik – Richard Adams These aren't necessarily my favorite books, in fact, some of them I didn't love the first time through but feel like there's more I could have gotten out of them. I don't read as much SFF anymore, so I haven't gone back to this list that often. I've tried to restart Little, Big a few different times - I did like it the first time, but if I fail this time, I'm going to conclude that once was enough. I was extremely surprised at how much I liked Otherland because I vaguely remember Memory, Sorrow and Thorn as being stultifying, and I hope I'll enjoy it again. Only Forward is a book I'd probably never have discovered without this list. I loved China Mountain Zhang but can't remember why. I'm enjoying The Book of the New Sun more now that I'm not anxious to figure out what's happening and why. During the time I was reading this list, I started having a strong preference for standalones over series and it would take an awful lot to get me interested in a new SFF series now. Piranesi is my number one recommendation for books written after the list was compiled.

I'm looking to see who weighed in on this so that for anyone who said Lions was good, I know never ever ever to take any recommendations from them.

I don't think I've been in that mindset. However, I can see why it would be appealing if for some reason, one really liked a particular character. At first I was neutral toward most of the characters, but by now I am extremely irritated by Jehane. It's the way she keeps thinking or the author keeps telling us that she's not like other women (because other women are emotional and dumb), but then she runs after Ibn Khairan like a 16 year old experiencing her first crush. Few things annoy me more in a book than when I perceive a character one way and the author bends over backwards to try to say that she's not like that at all.

I wanted to say something about Lions, but it seems that DP has already said it for me about Tigana. (Incidentally, I liked her Goodreads review back in January because it was funny, even though I didn't actually know what she was talking about, and I wish that I'd remained blissfully ignorant). Particularly this: "But then I realized that the worst problem the book has it that it takes itself so. damn. seriously." And this: "It may be that my loathing has grown with time, entering a positive feedback loop with my increasingly infrequent and chore-like attempts to finish the damn thing". I am halfway through and struggling to finish. it reminds me of a movie novelization. A movie intended as pseudo-historical reenactment Oscar-bait with beautiful sweeping landscapes and beautiful actors and actresses who take it all so damn seriously. The women are spunky (I hate that word, but not as much as I hate Jehane) and inappropriately modern while remaining in the margins - props to the masculine deeds of the leading men. Every fight is a show of athleticism, perfectly choreographed. A light-hearted moment that isn't actually funny. Characters don't have sex, they indulge in lovemaking (yes, the word lovemaking was actually used in the book), perfectly cleaned bodies in soft light draped by strategically placed sheets. Side-boob, half in shadow. Banter between the female lead and the men who would give their lives to protect her. Scenes open with a view of the city or enclave that the next group of characters occupy. The hint of tragedy, because without tragedy, how could the viewer not feel all the feels? But ultimately, you know that it's Joaquin Phoenix in a wig and makeup pretending to be someone who lived long ago. No matter how the book ends, this movie will end with a sweeping shot in melancholy light of the lands that these manly men fought their way across. And maybe whichever of the men ends up being the ultimate hero looking out across that land. You leave the theater feeling a little melancholy yourself, not just because of the story, but because of the beauty and unattainable perfection of the characters, and then you get a burger and coke and forget about it.

I am extremely sorry that we don't get to see this side of Stannis on the show. I don't really care that Stannis is being portrayed as weak and totally whipped by Mel, but they're kind of generic bad guys right now and giving him a chance to demonstrate wrestling with his sense of justice would have been good. What I hope we see more of is multi-character King's Landing scenes. I thought those were some of the best scenes in books 2-3, as well as Sansa observing different things within the court, and I hope they're not cut out in favor of one-on-one character scenes (especially if the one-on-one is Tyrion and Shae). Were the Lannisters so young in the book? I don't remember having many feelings about it one way or the other when reading. It was a good move to show them onscreen and they should probably do it again next episode.

If it weren't for the books, I wouldn't bother to watch the show every week. It's not so good that I'd make any special attempt for it.

He was a good character - I hope that Jon's scenes focus heavily on all the interesting characters North of the wall.

Good point, I would really have preferred to see more of the politics in Robb's camp - the stuff NOT focused around Cat. I believe just last week, people weren't even sure whether or not Robb's men knew that he'd married someone else. It would have been a good use of time to show more of the immediate consequences for Robb with his men. ETA: The substitution of stupid annoying Talisa instead of Jeyne should have created even more problems - because while a king marrying a lady for honor whose castle he stopped at might be stupid, wouldn't his men have looked upon Talisa as barely more than a camp follower?

I like her less than book Shae. Ultimately, book Shae was exactly what Tyrion should have known she was - a paid whore who tried to do and say whatever she thought would please Tyrion. When she betrayed him, she was a powerless, ignorant girl threatened by one of the most powerful men in the country - and we know from Tywin Lannister's character that he wasn't going to let her think for a moment that refusing him was an option. A betrayal by show Shae seems like it will have to be much more deliberate and malicious, since she isn't being portrayed as helpless or naive.

She was spiteful but it was in the past, and it would have been better to focus on her role as mother to her other children - particularly as a mother who her four youngest children wanted to be home with, with both Sansa and Arya still hoping to find a way home. Even if she hasn't been especially sympathetic in some subplots, there's a lot of be gained in sympathy for how happy she'd be to know that her children were alive, and now they'll never get to see her again. ETA: If the thing with Jon were really going to be a problem, a 5 second throwaway line about how she couldn't bear to think of Ned's infidelity but hoped he found honor in the Night's Watch would have sufficed.

Can't believe someone intelligent would fall for the kind of woman who thinks acting petty is acting playful. I disagree that book character Shae wouldn't fly - if she were made to be someone who clearly made him think with his dick. The actress is an attractive enough woman (can't say I'd trade appearances with her though), but she doesn't really radiate sexuality. And IRL, there ARE women who radiate sexuality so that normally intelligent men lose their clear-headedness (and vice versa with men who make normally intelligent women act crazy). *Especially* men who are insecure about their bodies and want the illusion that a beautiful woman can't keep her hands off him. And look at how many powerful people make really stupid decisions regarding where they get sex. I think that it would work if Shae were the kind of woman where men lusted after her and women wished to look like her. The attempt to make it seems like she's someone Tyrion would actually be interested in as a person, I think takes away from the pure fantasy aspect for him - especially since the show hasn't made it seem that he's actually fallen in love with her.

My main complaint with this episode is something that I think will be more and more unavoidable as the series stretches out, and I don't "blame" D&D for doing it this way because I don't see any clear alternative, but it felt very choppy and without any continuity. And because of that, there wasn't much narrative tension. For example, I think it would have made a much bigger impact, and been much more relevant to the story, to show Robb and Cat putting aside their problems to mourn for Bran and Rickon. In fact, that could have been a centralizing theme - how so many of the characters now have misinformation or total lack of information about each other, and have to go on alone. If Cat should be shown regretting anything now, it should be (as I believe it was in the book) that she left Bran and Rickon in Winterfell and wasn't able to be with them when they were in trouble. Nope, sorry, I do have a problem with Kikkeli's acting no matter what awards she might have won in the past. Her sudden attack of jealousy was completely unconvincing. And some of that is the writing - that she's been portrayed as this mature and experienced world traveler and suddenly she's throwing the kind of tantrum a middle school girl might upon hearing that her 12 year old boyfriend said another girl was pretty. But she didn't sell it at all. On the plus side, the Queen of Thorns is spectacular - especially the line that her son is doing the same thing as his absentminded father, only on the back of a lion.

LOVED Tyrion's test of Pycelle/Varys/LF - easily my favorite part of the episode. LOVED Brienne - I think the show will greatly benefit from having her story arc being viewed instead of told, because she's already more fascinating to watch then she was to read about. (The same goes for Sam, who I enjoy much more in the show than in the books). LOVED Sam and Gilly. I appreciate the POV structure in the book, but sometimes the characters get so fixated... LOVED when Sansa said she hoped the fighting was over soon so she could declare her love of the king. (Shouldn't Cersei sympathize? :devil: ) Undecided about Yara, although I totally want that Greyjoy kraken fireplace. She's described as witty, not extremely charismatic, so it'll boil down for me to whether she seems convincing when she's with the ships. Renly was greatly improved from last season, although I still feel like he's missing something. Margaery was great. But Loras... ugh. That's all. It's not because he's gay. It's because he's unattractive (hey being beautiful and strong albeit skinny is an important part of who he is in the book) and whiny and silly. Totally outmatched by his sister. HATED Shae. There are a lot of possible ways her character could have gone that would be better than this. The whole mysterious foreigner not low-born thing annoys the shit out of me - instead of being an opportunistic prostitute in a very precarious position, she's attaching herself to Tyrion for unknown reasons? What I really don't like is that this Shae doesn't seem to draw Tyrion in at all. She's not sexy. She's physically beautiful, of course, but I don't feel like there's anything about her that's just about irresistible to Tyrion, and irrationally so, where he couldn't just find a more cooperative whore. I know that some posters have said that maybe show Tryion likes that she's more assertive, but he kind of just seems annoyed. He's lacking a lot of the emotional neediness that fueled his delusions about book Shae. If I actually believed she was irresistible to him, it would go a long ways. But I don't.

This isn't a change or a condensing of the book. After Donal Noye gives Jon a similar lecture, his entire reaction is "suddenly he felt ashamed and guilty", then he runs around in happiness that Bran will live, then he apologizes to Grenn in the dining hall and insults Alister Thorne. Next chapter, all the boys who become his sidekicks have completely forgiven him already and he's become their leader to the point that he can convince them to be nice to Sam. He's never shown having the slightest bit of difficulty winning any of them over. I think that one of the reasons that Jon appears to never have to bear the full consequences of anything (besides that he doesn't) is because he's not very internally reflective. It's taken for granted that he changed from being a bully to a leader in one moment and then he never reflects on his past actions again.

4. I did the opposite of the hardcore fan of the books for whom the show will never be good enough because it won't be exactly like the books. All the enjoyment that I got out of this episode is because of the books - I can't resist the chance to see scenes reenacted, some of them quite well. However, as a TV show, I feel that it's way below HBO's best work and if I wasn't a fan of the books and the board, but were coming to the show unfamiliar with the story, after this episode, I'd be thinking "this really isn't for me".