Waters Gate

  • Content count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

About Waters Gate

  • Rank
    Council Member
  1. Even in real life we wouldn't be able to, some volcanic erruption happens and we endure it too, as to particle's in the atmosphere we can only try not to add to much ourselfs. Trees clean up aerial pollution to some extend, but i don't think you can weirwood yourself out of this one, though there is some magic there and the iron islands used to have an ygdrasil by lore. Alternativly atleast the dragons can get "up there" and maybe do something magical? Something something sacrifice? Sounds quite farfetched. I have thought about the relation of "lightbringer" and the end of the long night a lot before. Crucially to me is that "lightbringer" is called just that and not "other slayer". lightbringer could always be somethign abstract rather than a literal flaming sword, that it would be usefull against the others seems logical at first but it doesn't have to be it's main function, indeed i always considered it's function primarily to be "to bring light" in darkness. We could have gotten the impression that Dawn might have automaticly come when the others were defeated, as if winter came and went with them. When the explenation would just have been "magic" like that, there would hardly have been much of a reason to build more legend around it, including the comet and especially in regards to "darkness". At the very least there seems to be plenty of religious aspects to it with the great other and the lord of Light who in turn seem to have a connection to astronomical elements. As to astronomical ellements i have done some research in there aswell and i think there is a lot of value in it. It's not so much about astronomical science though rather than astronomical religion. The stars and planets are part of many religious pantheons in this world as it was in ours, and there are legends regarding astral objects that have some practical effect in the real world. A very good example of this is the Aztecs and the legend of Quetzalcotl. I presume LML knows the legend and it's connections to the books given such names like the "dawnstar" (venus) and the practical real life event of Hernan Cortez being (by legend) seen as this legendary "god who would return from the east". The meat of this then seem to be about comparing historical interpretations of astronomical events to how Planetosi interpret theirs, and then the real life events that followed upon it. So one perception i had was that lightbringer might be something that brings about astronomical chances, though more in a magic than science sort of way, as if there had been a fight going on between gods among the stars and that lightbringer had to set things right. In that sense the last line of "left a crack on the face of the moon" in the AA legend had always been an interresting one as to equate the function of lightbringer to something that would bring about astronomical changes. So was the usage of things like "30 days and 30 nights", the first could have hinted to the same moon. Most notobly when going this route the most likely thing for lightbringer to be would be a comet, and the red comet sure was candidate for a "red flaming sword" too. (too make things a bit complicated) Another alternative for me would be that Lightbringer is something that brings light/heat to an area around it, an area large enough to support farming during the long night and to ward of others from entering that zone. Lightbringer then wouldn't nessecarily bring about dawn rather than allow humans to survive until dawn arrives and to use dawn as a time to throw the others back to the north. That would work with the comet, but then lightbringer might not be so much a litteral flaming swords rather than a heat/energy source. What would be rather weird would be to see humans to defeat the others (perhaps with help of Azor Ahai) just to find out that it doesn't bring about Dawn and they still have to wait a few gennerations before the atmospheric dust/the long night to go away. You recognise that problem, it's just hard to make a judgement in regards to comets and the purpose they serve. You know the story of how the bloodstone Emperor came to worship a mysterious stone that had fell from the sky, appearing to make that meteor an magical entity rather than just a rock. A metor inpact is an "option". But perhaps another option is that the meteor has a function in the story now as a object of magic currently being used by the Cotf.
  2. I won't be the only one who has ever wondered what the nature of ligthbringer is. Not so much in the sense in what it exactly is, but what it eactly does to "bring light". The threat that is the long night for a large part seems to be about the others, but otoh it's also about a genneration long winter and perhaps darkness too. The latter can certainly be the cause of a meteor inpact, but are the others then waiting for those things to drop to commence their invasions? Perhaps they see it comming, a meteor has been visible for a while, not sure about the timing in regard to the appearence of the others and the meteor though, but they could have spotted it earlier perhaps. But then, is it lightbringers function to bring a sollution to a cataclysimic meteor inpact? One can understand Lightbringer as a weapon against the others, but also against climate change? Though an option i have considered to the nature of lightbringer is that it would create a safe area around which humans could survive in such a climate change scenario, being less a sword and more a device that allows humans to survive trough the long night, i have considered the hightower for that function before. Don't get me wrong, i think this thread is great work and i feel somewhat compelled to believe that a meteor did fall on the gods eye, but i'm not sure if the long night resulted from that. Crucially, how does lightbringer and Azor Ahai solve the issue of a long winter caused by a meteorite rather than so much being a device against the others?
  3. Perhaps there is more to it than this. In braavos for ex. there is a moon based religion apparently with the temple of the moonsingers, Braavos is not too far of the Vale or Andalos where the Vale Andals came from.
  4. How does Areo Hotah though get possesion of such an exceptional weapon as he has? That case seems far more needy for some inquiry. Area hotah is a rather low tier man, a mere bodyguard in terms of rank, connected to a nice court sure given his quality's, but one can wonder why he even choose the job of bodyguard if he could have sold that blade for a load of money. Areo hotah's weapon possibly has even more valyrian steel in it than the swords, Who's he going to leave this weapon when he dies? And how came that odd weapon come to be? Did a dragonlord order such a weapon for himself? I can believe the weapon is a functional one for sure given the propperty's of Valyrian steel, but i wonder if there is more to that thing than just being a weapon. I see no reason from the deviation from sword given the rarity of the material. Axes/Polearms certainly have their use but how would a axemen/pikemen come to have a valyrian blade? You would think the Valyrian blades would go to people who won't be positioned in such a role in the front line, rather on the battlefield valyrian blades would be more wielded by lords for protection or champions in combat who more likely would choose sword? Or caggo the corpsekiller. Some Dothraki sellsword who owns a Valyrian steel arakh, beats me how that weapon ever came to be. That some random Dothraki would rahter has his Valyrian steel blade in the form of an Arakh one can get, but you wouldn't expect a Valyrian wanting to make that one, or dothraki having the skill to reforge it. I do wonder if some of these blades might have magical propperty's that make them more than just a weapon. When valyrian steel doesn't come in the form of a weapon then it's often going to be a magic item, maybe the combo could exist too.
  5. It's interresting i must say that there are plenty of larger houses that lack a ancestral valyrian sword whereas the existing ones are often distributed from high upto fairly low. (like Areo Hotah) It is to say, valyrian swords are something mroe than just weapons. They are symbols of tradition and continuity. Perhaps it might be so that many of the larger houses that lack valyrian swords also lack a longer history, despite claiming perhaps otherwise. it might be logical that houses claim to be very old, there is something that justifies youre rule in the idea "weve been here forever" expecially in the eyes of uneducated masses. Perhaps that lower tier people have valyrian swords is more indication of them possibly having had a higher status earlier in history, while non Valyrian sword owning houses claiming to have been around millenia might actually have been more recent entrants. Atleast the Baratheons don't need to make any clains for their lack of Valyrian steel sword or origin, and the Tyrels, Greyjoy's and Tully's rose to power due to Argon's conquest too. Perhaps though there are many other houses claiming to be older that by indication of not owning a Valyrian steel sword are not so old at all.
  6. Even if youre allies are ammasing armies, heck especailly if youre allies are ammasing armies, you kinda just don't wanna get involved. You might try to call for a kings peace, or limit the scope of the war or the objectives and gains if you have the influence. But it's not like youre going to put in peacekeeping forces ala bleuhelmets who will just stand there for humanitarian concerns while the 2 duke it out, and if youre going to send in an army to fight youre going to have to pick choices and ultimatly what will it do you any good as a king when the fighting itself is not something you will be able to stop? Or perhaps you could drag more parts of the kingdom into this conflict, as if the escalation is a good idea. Sure, towads the end of medieval times and the early renesaince nations started to centralise more and armies were less spread among vassals. The feudal structure fits Westeros more due to distances, limited means of travel and communication, relative low commerce and inabillety to maintain payed proffesional armies with that. But it wouldn't be a feudal structure withought a youre regular feuds. Vassals fought all the time during feudal times. Lets take an example from the Dunk and Egg stories. Where is lady Rohanne Webber's overlord to come in with his skill at tongue or arms to stop the 2 party's from feuding? If the Blackwoods and the Brackens are having youre next random spite to fight over, will the Tully's come in to "set things right"? If Robbert meddles then he risks that 1 or 2 party's will be cross with him over that meddling. If Robert doesn't then likely the victorious party will be happy for him to keep out and then it's supposedly a fair fight. Tell me what Robert so much has to gain with siding with any party and why he shouldn't see it as something dangerous and unpredictable to meddle in? I would even bet that hounerable Ned Stark would see the honour in allowing bot party's to settle the matter hounerably on the battlefield, both party's should afterall be confident that they can win and gain something from it.
  7. Vassals will fight all the time and then the question is if it's so interresting as king to medle much in that. it depends how youre relations might be to that vassal, if a vassal you don't trust is attacking a loyal vasal that would be youre ally at all times then you'd use the opportunnity to deal with the untustworty vassal. Robert doesn't have so much reason to prefer Stark over Lannister. They are both important family's that are supposed to be his allies. Robert has reason to like Ned but also reason to keep Tywin at his good side. So it's logical that he wouldn't want to pick sides. Given the nature of the dispute there was always going to be a way out, if the Starks complain well it was Cat who caputured Tyrion, if the Lannisters complain well that might be actually be more tricky but i doubt Robert would move against Ned eitherway. Gennerally as a king i think you want to avoid as much as possible being drawin in the conflicts between vassals, slights happen all the time but as a king you genneraly don't want to choose sides. In history afaik the Kings let their vassals fight their own wars withought gettign involved by norm.
  8. Correction, there are atleast 4 to 5 loosely defined tiers of houses. There is the royal house controlling the 7 kindoms, then there are the lord Paramounts, then there are the larger Bannermen (Florents, Hightowers, Boltons, manderley's, frey's, Harlaw's, Yronwoods etc), then there are the smaller bannermen or "bannermen of bannermen" like Cassel, Corbray, Beesburry, Clegane, Farwynd etc. and then there are even smaller houses we will likely never hear much about. it's just that the largest and most powerfull of bannermen don't have an title that signify's them from even lower houses like the lord paramounts have. In between those tiers there can also be a significant difference in wealth. The hightowers for ex. are possibly richer than some lord paramount houses like the Arryns or the Tully's. In regards to buying Valyrian swords i'd think wealth would matter more than millitary strenght too. Saying it makes no difference is nonsense. The Hightowers for ex. are notably rich and powefull enough that they can practicly rival certain lord paramounts in terms of power. The hightowers are a "minor house" by youre standards that have a Valyrian steel sword too. Franly i'm not in the least bit surprized that the Hightowers have one.
  9. Much larger than that i wager. Then agian in terms of size the 7 kingdoms is more like a big and wealthy empire rather than a fairly poor and irrelevant Kingdom like England used to be at that time. I'm fairly certain the Muslims at that time had throne rooms that dwarved the one you mentioned. I need to check out where the Kaliphate had it's court, maybe more of an indication for size.
  10. And vice versa. Tywin did keep the sword and reforged it into 2 others. Give it another few century's and the Lannisters might never mention the true story of how they got those swords. So you'd expect that the honourable would return it, and the less honourable would make it theirs. Like this i wouldn't be surprized if a number of swords we considered always part of a family had actually been owned by several family's over the history, but most houses would probably never mention it.
  11. The Drumms have a sword they took from reaving, perhaps the Mormonts got their sword in a simmilar fashion. We don't know what the stature was of House tarly 500 years ago, nowadays they are a pretty important house in a rather rich region so it shouldn't be too surprizing that they are rather wealthy as most large reach houses are. And i think only the Hightowers are bigger in the reach than them. House Tarly might have had petty kings century's ago, in an age where regions like the north or the reach were not unified like they are today, and bought that sword in that capacity Personally i find it more surprizing that Valyrian swords don't change hands more often due to wars. You'd think that the lords would take their Valyrian swords to battle and loose them for their house if they died. Otoh they are also something of a symbol of the institution that is nobillety, it's almost something that gives you more right to rule. That Ned returned Dawn to Starfall was a honourable thing to do but you'd wonder how many GoT characters would do such a thing if they managed to take a Valyrian steel sword from the battlefield.In this respect i wouldn't be surprized if the poorer houses that have a valyrian steel sword wouldn't mention that they took it from another house if so. .Which is also why i think you might not want to believe every house that claims they had their sword for century's. These swords are an object of prestige and ligitimization imho, sounds logical then that they would want to have that rendered upon their house withought any "foul play" attached. That the Drumms can boast that they took the Valyrian swords they own might be more due to caputring suhc a sword being more acceptable and prestigious for the Ironborn than Andla culture where continuity and tradition is held more highly.
  12. then it has no special relation to the hightower per se. But then who can use and even aim this glass candle to make any theoreticly possible connection between 2 points? Noone seems to understand how these work these days,
  13. i want calculations that show that the curvature of the earth isn't in the way of the line of sight. The glass candle's won't be able to be seen from the wall if there is no line of sight, right? Do you think you can spot a 1600m mountain from something like 4000 kilometers?
  14. I would like to see calcullations proof youre claim.
  15. TLDR: Dragons have so much potential for speeding up technoligy and kicking off certain aspects of the industrial technoligy that the Valyrians might have had modern era materials and electricity. In a world withought printing press however the knowledge was hard to spread and easy to loose. We know of the valyrian freehold that it was very advanced. Strangly enough the valyrians were a younger culture afaik than the Ghiscari and yet they seemed to have progressed further in their time than the Ghiscari. It seems that the rate of technological development in Valyria was much higher than average. It is perhaps fairly easy to explain with dragons. Just for fun, i have contemplated before what it would be to hit the industrial revolution with lots of dragons around. Horses and their power were an important part of the early industrialization, it's safe to say that dragons being so powerfull and on top of that being able to breath flames that they would be just extremely usefull as a way to kick off an industrial revolution. They have a lot of strenght that can be converted to mechanical energy, their dragonflame can be used to heat all sort of materials to a very high temperature and in big volume and just aswell the heat can be converted to mechanical energy by steam or later to electrical energy. Just immagine all the fun industrial designs you could make with Dragons, like Dragon-steambote's, Dragon Zeppelins, Dragon Smelters, Dragon material works, Dragon power plants. Dragons really allow shortcuts in the industrial process. With materials it took a long time before people could really bring about the heat and energy to have the sorts of metals we have today for ex. Aluminum for ex. takes a load of energy to produce which only became economical in modern times. It took a lot of technological refinement that the Valyrians could have mostly bypassed i guess. This while perhaps they havn't invented the printing press yet for ex, or gunfire, or had been interrested really in building steel ships. You could understand that Valyrians being very advanced in material tech didn't nessecarily need to develop something like gunpowder or ships, simply because their dragons mostly fullfilled the fighting and transportation role. When you consider the lack of printing press however then it's likely that the vast knowledge they tend to learn from the usage of dragons in production or creation of energy doesn't nessecarily get written down and coppied a lot. I think there is reason to suggest that the developmental extra that dragons could provide could have led Valyrians so far to research certain modern technoligy's like advanced materials and perhaps electrics. Electrics because you might find out how it works easier when having so much metals and energy and some interrest in being able to transport that energy or use it for other applications. Considering such things like Valyrian steel swords and the glass candle's, while their capabillety's are often attributed to magic perhaps there might actually be more technoligy too it than people think.