Lord Godric

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About Lord Godric

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    Not *That* Lord Godric
  • Birthday 09/25/1990

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  1. No, because (as I said above many times) she knew that attacking KL would kill the people of the city and killing tens of thousands of people. So this isn't true. She didn't do it because Jon advised her not to. The fact that she had to ask him (after having seemingly already been convinced by Tyrion that killing tens of thousands of people is a bad idea) is enough to show that she doesn't care about the people and will use brute force to get what she wants just like anyone else. This is Tyrion's diplomatic skill, not Dany's. So again, no leadership from Dany. Hardly a pretty wild exaggeration. It's common for people to talk about troops by referring to their commander, please stop trying to make it seem like I'm being ridiculous here when you cut out and ignored all of my post except for three lines. You're making my point for me, you just don't see it. After the battle, Dany defeated the SOTH with force, then burned their ships. All examples of Dany failing at diplomacy and having to resort to brute force. Again, no leadership. No I didn't. I said that Dany would be nothing without her Dragons. Which is true. Without her dragons she would have been among the Dosh Khaleen. Without her dragons she would have no giant slave army. Without her dragons no one would be following her. This is not saying the same thing as saying that Dany exhibits force by other means than her dragons. Two separate points. And I am not saying that to be a good leader you need to eschew the use of force, I am saying that Dany has shown she is good at ordering destruction and death, but she has done nothing to show that Jon should believe she would be capable or deserving to rule the Seven Kingdoms. Because, as we saw from Robert, being a good conqueror does not make you a good leader. And Dany has shown no signs of being a good diplomat, politician, or queen. A conqueror and commander, sure you can make that argument. This is a strawman, so I'm not going to address it. My whole point is that it is not formed in response to what she does, it is formed into response of the writers telling us the type of person she is while never showing us those actions from her herself. Everyone is. I don't understand what point you're trying to make with this.
  2. You're ignoring my point. I'm not going to debate in circles with you about this. So I'll just supply my previous words: Yes, she says the Red Keep but it is in reference to their earlier conversation, as Tyrion makes clear in this scene. In that previous scene Tyrion explains that "if we turn the dragons loose, tens of thousands will die." Dany herself notes that she is "not here to be queen of the ashes" meaning she knows that attacking Cersei in the Red Keep means destruction not just of the Red Keep but on King's Landing. When Dany asks Jon's advice on what to do he understands the repercussions of "just attacking the Red Keep" by saying that people will not love her if she "melts castles and burns cities." It is clear to everyone that attacking the Red Keep does not simply mean the Red Keep, but it involves collateral damage throughout King's Landing that will bring the city to ashes and kill tens of thousands of people. And although Dany seemed to believe that was unreasonable when she had other ways of claiming the throne, now that she doesn't she can't come to that conclusion on her own I'm sorry but the only derangement I see is your ability to pretend Dany did all of these things with planning, foresight, and good leadership. Liberating the cities was done by brute strength (Astapor she burned the slavers, Yunkai the Unsullied take the city by storming through the sewer). Not because she was a good ruler. As far as "staying to make things work" she clearly didn't do that in the cities she "liberated" as Yunkai ends up re-enslaving every man and the butcher king Cleon took over in Astapor. She does stick around in Meereen, but stubbornly refuses to learn from her mistakes and still thinks she can establish an entire new order by her will alone. Which leads to the establishment of the Sons of the Harpy and countless deaths. Again, through brute strength alone. She murders all of the Khals. Dany had 8,000 Unsullied in Meereen and they couldn't keep the peace. The "detailed orders" that she leaves to the other cities is basically "don't fuck with me," but like I said previously now that she is gone and the threat isn't imminent there is no reason that peace will hold. The only reason we are even led to believe it is holding is because the show is done with that storyline and doesn't want to readdress it. I do. Dany does not seem to. As I've said previously, this is a result of the show forcing the idea onto us that we should love Dany. Look all of these likeable characters support her, clearly she is doing the right thing and will make a good ruler. When her actions alone have not warranted such an assessment. The show is continually using artificial means like having Missandei speak for Dany's strength to show us why we should support Dany, while at the same time undermining those words with her lack of leadership, and, some argue, signs of madness. Her use of brute force doesn't always rely on the dragons. I don't ignore it. I've addressed it above. It isn't because of good leadership, it is because the show wants her to be the hero we are rooting for. So of course the most likeable and trustworthy members of the show flock to her. Her actions alone have not warranted their support however. She once took steps to improve the welfare of the least advantaged. She once talked of "breaking the wheel" in Westeros, but now she is firmly one of the many spokes on the wheel that will dish out suffering to the people because of her own pride and entitlement. Even if you think that she wouldn't burn the people of King's Landing (which is utterly false because both she and Tyrion recognize that releasing the dragons on the Red Keep would kill tens of thousands of people), he desire to even siege the city would lead to the suffering of the poorest first. Who do you think will starve when she cuts off their food supply? Certainly not Cersei first. It will be the peasants in the street who die of starvation so Dany can sit her ass on that throne. Even further, she's willing to allow the White Walkers to descend on the North (and most likely the entire country) because her pride will not suffer Jon to title himself King in the North. Any notion Dany once had of "breaking the wheel" is completely gone, as she has become one of the spokes that helps crush the people on the ground. I'm holding her up to her own standards. Just saying that "Cersei is crazy too" isn't enough to overlook the many faults and lack of leadership that Dany displays.
  3. The gold made it to KL, that's been established. But I'm still hoping that the Iron Bank will turn on Cersei. It still does not sit well with me that the writers of the show were so sloppy as to not care that the Iron Bank would be unhappy with Cersei's comments about "former slaves," so I'm hoping that Cersei will repay her debt to the Iron Bank expecting them to give her another loan (as Tycho said he would) only to have Tycho take that money and leave Cersei with nothing. No money to pay for sellswords, food for King's Landing or anything else.
  4. Yes, she says the Red Keep but it is in reference to their earlier conversation, as Tyrion makes clear in this scene. In that previous scene Tyrion explains that "if we turn the dragons loose, tens of thousands will die." Dany herself notes that she is "not here to be queen of the ashes" meaning she knows that attacking Cersei in the Red Keep means destruction not just of the Red Keep but on King's Landing. When Dany asks Jon's advice on what to do he understands the repercussions of "just attacking the Red Keep" by saying that people will not love her if she "melts castles and burns cities." It is clear to everyone that attacking the Red Keep does not simply mean the Red Keep, but it involves collateral damage throughout King's Landing that will bring the city to ashes and kill tens of thousands of people. And although Dany seemed to believe that was unreasonable when she had other ways of claiming the throne, now that she doesn't she can't come to that conclusion on her own. Good at ruling? Indeed we must be watching different shows because Dany's attempts to free Slaver's Bay were horribly bloody ordeals in which not only former slavers die, but many former slaves and civilians are killed. The Sons of the Harpy slaughter civilians in Meereen and the city suffers from the bombardment of the other slaves cities that she "liberated" (which also have seen lots of bloodshed after Dany simply leaves thinking the peace she has established will continue after she is gone). Dany ends up getting out of the whole mess in Essos simply by setting her dragons loose and burning the Slaver's ships. That's not being good at ruling, that's brute force and slaughter to get your enemies to do what you want them to do. The second she can leave Meereen for Westeros she does, leaving only Daario to hold the peace there. And the only way peace will hold in Slaver's Bay is through some heavy artificiality, because we've seen what happens when the immediate threat of Dany and her dragons is gone, things fall to shit. I want to like Dany because I know that she is going to end up in a position of power, and it's damned easy to like the character that you are supposed to be rooting for. But the show has done a horrible disservice to her character (although to be fair, Martin has not got her to a point where she is worthy of ruling either). We are told that we have to love Dany and that she is doing the right thing, but her actions have not shown that. She made a mess out of Slaver's Bay (again, the only reason that any peace is Slaver's Bay is holding is because the show wants to be done with it and not have to worry about the repercussions of Dany's departure), she has been outsmarted in every move she has made in Westeros so far, and she doesn't understand why she can't just set her dragons loose. She's not a good ruler, and she has done nothing to show that she has the capacity to be a good ruler other than blow shit up with her dragons. If that is the kind of ruler she wants to be, fine. But the show is pretending that she is the savior that will change the dynamics of the entire system of power in Westeros. And she has never shown the ability to be able to do anything like that.
  5. I don't think that's exactly the case. While I don't think that Cersei is the protagonist and any ideas that she should be show that the show is doing a terrible job with her character, the writers and producers want you to be rooting for Jaime and the Lannister forces. They say as much in the behind the scenes from the most recent episode, that they want the viewer to be torn between rooting for Jaime and Bronn to kill Dany/Drogon and rooting for Dany and Drogon to make Jaime and Bronn crispy. They are trying to make Jaime a hero of the series and that is where I think they are failing the worst because they have just utterly destroyed his character and anything that made him sympathetic.
  6. Questioning looks and ominous music does not mean the show is forcing us to question her decisions. You need more than that if you want the audience to truly ask questions about if Dany is fit/deserving to rule and we haven't had that. It always comes back to the fact that no matter how twisted her sense of justice may seem, it's okay because the show wants us to feel like she is right. I'm not denying that she will be one of the saviors of Westeros, but it will be done with sloppy writing and by a character who stands out among all the other characters by never forcing the viewer to question her merit. The writers have been forcing it down our throats for a while that Dany will be the savior Westeros needs, while making her character perform terrible actions and then glossing over them quickly and never asking the audience to think about them and what they add up regarding Dany's personality.
  7. Ruling in Essos does nothing to earn her rule in Westeros. All the lessons she has learned have been completely thrown out of the window, she doesn't even understand why she can't just go and attack King's Landing and kill everyone inside of the city. Without her dragons, Dany is nothing. And she would not be near the throne in Westeros without them. That is just luck of the draw, that is not proving she is worthy of being queen, that is not winning over the hearts and minds of the people and houses of Westeros. You're right that the writers want us to feel like 5 seasons of Dany's storyline has been about her learning to rule, but the fact is that is not true for her character. She is still resting on the same exact notion that Viserys was in Season 1, that is "I was born to rule the Seven Kingdoms." There has been absolutely no development there no matter how much the writers want to force us to believe that.
  8. She's not presented as a gray character in the show whatsoever. She presented as the main heroine, the one who will be the savior of Westeros. The reality of how her character acts and the character the writers want to pretend she is do not mesh, at all. They are continually forcing us to see her as this good character who can always do the "just" thing, when in reality her sense of justice is disturbing and twisted. We have never yet been asked by the show itself to question "is Dany right, should Dany rule, is Dany better than the others" we've just been told the answer to all of those questions is "Yes, don't worry" while she proves she is not.
  9. New favorite quote? New hashtag? I dunno, but this is great!
  10. It was a way of also complementing Dany and rewarding Missandei for her passionate defense of her. I don't think it was careless or out of place, it was flattery.
  11. Ugh, I hope it is not just a trick of editing. Because you are right, so far the show has done nothing but pander and white-wash Dany. I don't think they need to make Dany the villain, but spend a few episodes showing us that her current course is not the savior she promised to be and I think we'll be on the right path. But I also am pessimistic and don't really think we'll see too much of this, if any.
  12. I don't think you're wrong with any of this. But I don't see how this man who has been ruthlessly self-serving since the day we met him doesn't think of himself first here. He has to know that "Team Lannister" may owe him a raise right now, but they just suffered a huge defeat and they likely will not be able to give him that raise anytime soon. " Remember all of that gold is going to the Iron Bank, not into Cersei's coffers. Further this dragons just destroyed the Lannister army effortlessly. Why would he ever assume that the Lannisters would be able to defeat them. Especially when he himself pulled the trigger on the scorpion that hardly wounded the dragon, and that is the Lannister's "secret weapon. Why he decided to save Jaime here makes no sense without the meta-reason that they needed Jaime to be saved.
  13. Who she is threatening is wrong, the idea of her going mad isn't. Like I've said previously it's either bad characterization or they're setting us up to question if Dany is truly fit to rule.
  14. The problem is that this is never addressed in the show. Yes Tyrion looked horrified but so far in the show Dany has just been presented as the savior, and he actions have rarely been questioned. She is portrayed in universe as doing the "just" thing. Even if she murders innocents it is twisted around to fit her weird sense of justice. This same story could be very easily told from a POV that describes all of the terrible things Dany did, all of the innocents she crucified, killed, or burned to get her "justice" but the show hasn't gone there yet. She is always shown as in the right. Now that could change given the conversation we see between Tyrion and Varys in next week's episode and I hope it does. Because this show would lose so much of what makes it unique if it does not force the viewer to question if Dany is right, if she deserves to rule, and if she isn't just as cruel as other characters we've seen.
  15. It's one of the things that makes any idea of Dany surviving and ruling just so unsatisfying for me. Dany has shown some hints of madness already, at a much younger age than some of the other Targaryens. How are we supposed to assume that her reign will be any better off than any of the other mad kings? If we are left with an ambiguous ending about if anything is really any better off at the end of the series than at the beginning it would be very disappointing. While I know the ending will be bittersweet there has to be some sort of payout from this whole journey.